1300 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

[Mavqt]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

To me, Control is still a form of enslavement, the Reapers are still sentient species and I very much doubt they wanted to be controlled by the Catalyst V2. And Synthesis, yes it's forced evolution. Evolution should happen naturally, unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not.

Why is "Natural" evolution better? Nature isn't kind or generous in the slightest, and certainly doesn't ask permission. At least directed evolution can actually have a purpose to aspire to.

I have to agree here, what has been done to the races that comprise each reaper was monsterous, but it cannot be undone.  What they were is gone, what they become is up to you.  Control, Synthesis and Destroy are all viable because of this.

None of the solutions will benefit them, extinction, enslavement, or painful knowledge of what they have become with no recourse to return to what they once were.

Saying you pick something else because Control makes them slaves misses the bigger points of what they've become and what power you have over their future.

It was just the point of the atrocities comminted by each option. If you really want to know why I didnt pick destroy here's another one of me reasons from a different thread.

"I was under the impression that the Catalyst still exsists in the Control ending. Just part of you becomes a part of it. And
since it was designed to bring peace between organics and synthetics, and in turn it failed. What's to say that even with part of me, it's not
going to happen again. Just this time with a huge army of Reapers to
begin with. Atleast that was my mindset before and after the EC's
Control description."

[ApuLunas]

there is more hope in change than in future.
mass effect = synthesis >>>>> mass effect with extended cut.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

Good thing you missed the hwole talk about evolution.

[Ghrelt]

Xilizhra wrote...

To me, Control is still a form of enslavement, the Reapers are still sentient species and I very much doubt they wanted to be controlled by the Catalyst V2. And Synthesis, yes it's forced evolution. Evolution should happen naturally, unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not.

Why is "Natural" evolution better? Nature isn't kind or generous in the slightest, and certainly doesn't ask permission. At least directed evolution can actually have a purpose to aspire to.

But whose purpose?  And how can I trust that anyone has the knowledge and foresight to make that kind of decision on belhalf of all of existence?  No one has that right.  To make a judgement with no research or outside opinion and change everything, all on the advice of an entity I have no real reason to trust or believe?

You are assuming that the one directing this evolution a) knows what they are doing, and actually has the best interests of all life and sentient entities at heart.  You have no proof aside from the Catalyst's assurances.

[Aquilas]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

translationninja wrote...

If you advocate genocide on a sentient race you have forfeited the right to argue on moral grounds

If you are fascinated by the lore of a sci-fi title where objects traverse the universe at a speed that is multiples of C, you have forfeited the right to argue space magic

/thread

Wrong, the space magic argument is viable, if you need exposition on why , you obviously have not read too well into just abotu every synthesis thread. It is never shown to be possible within the confines of the established universe and is therefore an asspull and space magic.

^This.

I'll say this again:

Given well-established ME lore via the Codex and other sources, we're expected to believe that Star-jar and his Crucible-Citadel Space-Magic Wand can project an energy beam via the relays throughout the entire galaxy, combining organic DNA and synthetic circuit boards at the molecular level to create an entirely new life form.  This beam would have to reach systems -without relays-, as well as space ships, space stations, asteroid bases, etc. outside of relay range.

For synthesis to be completely successful, Star-jar would have to know where every organic and synthetic life form was, and then monitor the process to ensure synthesis worked.  To do all these things Star-jar would have to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  Star-jar would have to be the AI-God of the ME universe.

If someone asked me to define "space magic," I'd point them to ME3 Synthesis.

[christrek1982]

it's is giving millions of people tech implants and changing what they are without ever asking basically doing what the reapers do but on a massive scale. oh also Shepard dies.

[Xilizhra]

Good thing you missed the hwole talk about evolution.

I know the evolution talk. The means of Synthesis are sufficiently different, and Mordin wasn't talking about that at all, or I suspect had even imagined that such a thing (given instantaneously) might be possible.

[DiebytheSword]

mavqt wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

To me, Control is still a form of enslavement, the Reapers are still sentient species and I very much doubt they wanted to be controlled by the Catalyst V2. And Synthesis, yes it's forced evolution. Evolution should happen naturally, unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not.

Why is "Natural" evolution better? Nature isn't kind or generous in the slightest, and certainly doesn't ask permission. At least directed evolution can actually have a purpose to aspire to.

I have to agree here, what has been done to the races that comprise each reaper was monsterous, but it cannot be undone.  What they were is gone, what they become is up to you.  Control, Synthesis and Destroy are all viable because of this.

None of the solutions will benefit them, extinction, enslavement, or painful knowledge of what they have become with no recourse to return to what they once were.

Saying you pick something else because Control makes them slaves misses the bigger points of what they've become and what power you have over their future.

It was just the point of the atrocities comminted by each option. If you really want to know why I didnt pick destroy here's another one of me reasons from a different thread.

"I was under the impression that the Catalyst still exsists in the Control ending. Just part of you becomes a part of it. And
since it was designed to bring peace between organics and synthetics, and in turn it failed. What's to say that even with part of me, it's not
going to happen again. Just this time with a huge army of Reapers to
begin with. Atleast that was my mindset before and after the EC's
Control description."

I agree to an extent here, each ending has unpleasant implications, and each ending has reasons for validation.  I personally felt that the old Guardian/Catalyst programming was wiped out and reprogramed with Shepard's purpose and mindframe, giving the Catalyst crucial perspective that it lacked before, as per what it says while describing synthesis.  It is flawed because it cannot comprehend organics, that is fixed by absorbing all of what Shepard is, and expunging its own flawed persuit.  I think that its influence is gone, replace with Shepards, while the basic function of controlling the reapers, citadel and relay network are still there.

Before the EC, I had little reason to accept anything but destroy, but after the EC, I feel more secure choosing all of the myriad options, and will likely do at least one save with each.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah if choosing genocide (and permantely getting rid of the Reapers), playing big brother (and leaving them alive and ra only knows if AI Shep will go eventually go bonkers), or genetically altering countless lives against their consent I'll pick genocide.

Lesser evil and all that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:27 .

[MisterJB]

Genocide is the lesser evil? Please.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah if choosing genocide, playing big brother, or genetically altering countless lives against their consent I'll pick genocide.

Lesser evil and all that.

...why would you possibly think genocide is the least evil?

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

Genocide is the lesser evil? Please.

Yes it is. You might not agree but yes genocide in that scenario is the lesser evil to me.

Ra preferable than massively bodily violation over every organic being in the galaxy and leaving the risk that the cycle'll start all over again (with the Reapers anyway) successfully nullfiying the sacrifices everyone in the Reaper war made.

The Geth knew they might die as a price of destroying the Reapers. They were willing to fight regardless. (same with EDI).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .

[ghost9191]

Xilizhra wrote...

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

not that i justify it or defend it but can't you guys come up with a different argument other then GENOCIDE AND SLAVERY     i mean come.      if the geth were destroyed back on rannoch, guess what you don't commit genocide on the geth so yeah .  point is that give us more cons to destroy other then the destruction of a race of machines that have done nothing but kill innocents through me1 and me2

oh and well don't have anything about control other then the risk

i mean ffs synthesis destroys races, changes their dna, might not kill them out right. that we know of. but it does destroy what they once were. and all races agree to sacrifice themselves in order to stop the reaper threat, the geth are a casualty of war, nothing else

just a few thoughts, i do wish people would make more argument about destroy then it is genocide , because actually it depends on how you feel about the geth. to bioware the geth aren't alive until synthesis which doesn't have much to do with anything but just something to think about.   but yeah so destroy doesn't always cause genocide if the geth were already destroyed by the quarians.

and also destroying the reapers doesn't count as genocide cause they are already dead, if it does then well guess what that means with the destroyers you took out. oh and the poor batarian colony. and wiping out that "geth city" on rannoch , and the millions of geth on vimire and the heretic station. and if you rewrote them then you basically killed them , same as synthesis

well just random thoughts

[Mr.House]

MisterJB wrote...

Genocide is the lesser evil? Please.

You mean sacerfcing people who agreeded and where ready to die in the first place to destory the Reapers, not to be changed against their will and be bff forever with monsters?

[Reptilian Rob]

Xilizhra wrote...

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

From the art book, which is canon. Same result, same process, different method. 

[Ryzaki]

...great and now I'm thinking of that husks face. I'm not sure if it's more hilarious or horrifying.

[ghost9191]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

From the art book, which is canon. Same result, same process, different method. 

CE    straight from the horses mouth

[Xilizhra]

Ra preferable than massively bodily violation over every organic being in the galaxy and leaving the risk that the cycle'll start all over again (with the Reapers anyway) successfully nullfiying the sacrifices everyone in the Reaper war made.

What sort of person wouldn't be willing to accept a few bodily modifications to save a whole race?

You mean sacerfcing people who agreeded and where ready to die in the first place to destory the Reapers, not to be changed against their will and be bff forever with monsters?

Your inability to accept the potential of the Reapers being redeemed saddens me.

From the art book, which is canon. Same result, same process, different method.

No. This is stupid. You're using a single word that has, shock of shocks, different meanings in different contexts.

[Mavqt]

Xilizhra wrote...

But why force it onto every being, not everyone wants it. Thats why I said "unless some scientists find a way to force a change, then you should have you own choice whether to accept it or not." and evolution hasn't been unkind to us so far.

I do so to avoid genocide/slavery.

Really?

Collectors are self-replicating husks, nothing more. They're mindless slaves who have nothing to do with how Synthesis works.

There are 14 advanced races in the ME galaxy, lets say there is 1 trillion of each per race.
In destroy you loose the Geth so 1 trillion dead and lets say half the Quarians hate you for it. 1 trillion dead and .5 trillion angry quarians.
In synthesis lets say a quarter of the races are pissed off at the decision. that would be 3.5 trillion angry mofo's
3 trillion more angry then in destroy (2 if you want to minus the Geth losses from it) And they can always try rebuild the Geth.

Atleast this is my opinion in this matter on synthesis. not going to touch the of matters.

Edit; Grammar.

I know it's not a best argument against genocide, but I would rather everyone have a choice in whether to embrace synthesis or not.

Modifié par mavqt, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:39 .

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Xili no offense but I decided to stop debating you on things a long time ago.

[Ridwan]

Synthesis! **** yeah, let's all make ourselves look like this guy.

[ghost9191]

Modifié par ghost9191, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:34 .

[esalor]

Apologies, long rant.
I find Synthesis as presented by the Catalyst to be morally wrong and unjustifiable, however that is beside the point.

The fleet adrimal himself stated the mission objective rather clearly: "Dead Reapers is how we win this".
Now,

On the one side I have what TIM has been trying to achieve - Control. Shepard told him "Whaf if you can't control them? Are you willing to risk humanity's future on it?"

On the middle, some option presented by a previously unknown entity to whom I have every reason not to trust.

On the right: Exactly what I have been working towards since learning about the Reaper threat. The ultimate goal for which the entire galactic community poured their last resources to build the Crucible.

I can see a renegade Shepard going for Control. Like keeping the Collector base in ME2. But Synthesis? Even if we accept that the premise is even possible, how can Shepard be convinced to act on this and redefine life itself based on 3 vague sentences from a creepy hologram?

I think in the end, there was no choice.

 

[Lenimph]

Stare long and hard at the krogan baby in the synthesis ending and you will know why...