wantedman dan wrote...
I'm not trying to troll. Just playing the devil's advocate.
Think nothing of it. I enjoy a good philosophical debate.
Modifié par Meltemph, 03 juillet 2012 - 08:56 .
Codename_Code wrote...
Melting your flesh and bones into galactic goo to make a reaper is Synthesis. The Synthesis portrayed in the ending, product of a beam of light that magically gives implants, is incoherent with the mass effect themes.
Unless you don't care about some space magic in the narrative coherence of your space opera.
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
*sigh* Do you deliberatly misrepresent my argument just to bully me? Just because you don't like me? Or what?
I didn't say anything about slavery.
Welsh Inferno wrote...
Siansonea II wrote...
Humanity's extinction, if it comes about naturally, is one thing. Humanity's extinction at the hands of a single individual is quite another. If "we're all going to go extinct anyway" is your gambit, well, you can use that to excuse ANYTHING. Why not blow up that group of people over there who have what we want? We're all going to go extinct anyway. Ugh. Freakin' psycopaths on the Internet...
No. My gambit being I'd rather we make the most of ourselves while we can & as quick as we can. Not that you cannot do that in other endings, but hey, things will move a lot faster towards... well... things we cannot hope to comprehend really.
Meltemph wrote...
People hate synthesis because it is not well thought out. The way snythesis is explained sounds like something out of a world of magic. Also, it doesnt explain what will happen to those who are synthesised, so the only thing you have to make the desision, is some romantic idea's of transhumanism that you have in your head. You are quitel iterally experimenting with the galaxy just because one has a disturbing infatuation with snythetic-organic idea's.
What makes it worse is, there are people out there who look at synsthesis and its ilk like some disturbing religion. Like it is the peak of existence, because of their over romantisizing over what they think it wold mean, and to not be for it is nothing more then not wanting to "better" humanity, like it is a forgone conclusion that this is the only way to perfect ones self .
Synthesis is hated, because it doesnt make sense with the way it is presented and introduces the idea that organics(humans) are so horrible that they will never be able to achive their goals without them being "fixed", to the point of some people actaully believe the reapers have a form of moral clarity compared to humans.
Synthesis over simplfies so much that in order to enjoy it, imo, you have to either allow yourself to be very simple minded in its exceptence or disregard it as it is presented and pretend it is like something else from anotehr story you have read.
RadicalDisconnect wrote...
wantedman dan wrote...
I'm not trying to troll. Just playing the devil's advocate.
Think nothing of it. I enjoy a good philosophical debate.
Unfortunately, good philosophical debate is very unlikely given the environment of this thread and this forum in general.
Many people are falling prey to using argumentative fallacies. In particular, I'm seeing a LOT of false analogies, association fallacy, equivocation, mind projection fallacy, and faulty generalizations (cherry picking).
Xilizhra wrote...
So what you're saying is that you wouldn't be willing to have your DNA realigned to save billions of lives?Siansonea II wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
There are many things wrong with me, but I think this is just me being logical. No individuals are dying, and humanity's nature can change into something better. Humans are grossly suboptimal, as are all other forms of sapient life in ME.No it isn't. Your children won't be human. You're not human anymore. Humanity is extinct. That's not a problem? THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU.
(Also, my Shepard was never going to have human children anyway.)
Ah yes, "logic". I guess the "logic" that you've eradicated humanity and replaced it with an "upgraded" version sounds really good to you. I hope you aren't a scientist. I don't like your logic. I don't want your "logic" dictating MY future and my choices. You imposing your "logic" on all life in the galaxy just shows how much you think of yourself, and how little you think of the rights of others.
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
Welsh Inferno wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
I have come to the conclusion that people who want to hate synthesis will simply shut their mind to the realization that genocide is more unacceptable than forced change.
No rational argument in the world will make a change there.
What me changed against my will? Nuh uh!!! Go kill a trillion other sentient beings instead!!!!
a billion. and google genocide, synthesis destroy what the races once was in order to make a new one. that right there is genocide
I love what this thread has turned into.
mmmmkay, I guess for ghost having a different skin color and more knowledge in your head equals being dead... can't even argue with that it's so out there...
rewriting their dna changes what they were, the species like say asari is no more. they may look it but they are changed, that is destroying a ethnic or racial group which is genocide. turning everyone into the same thing by altering their dna means they are no longer what they use to be
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but you are really wrong. Take GMOs for example, a genetically modified tomato is still a tomato. It doesn't stop being a tomato because it now has a peanut gene fused into its genome. Of course you can call it peanato because you choose to believe it's not a tomato anymore, however, for all intents and purposes it is still a tomato.
u don't just add to it, you rewrite it, change everyones dna to make them the same. i am just saying what the catalyst pretty much said, you do destroy that racial and ethnic group and in doing so genocide.
and as i said my argument makes as much sense as synthesis. except mine is a little bit true
ghost9191 wrote...
wasn't there something about advancing a species before they are ready., i believe it turned out bad
preffer to have ppl learn it on their own rather then "like giving nuclear weapons to caveman"
Modifié par M25105, 03 juillet 2012 - 08:56 .
Irish286 wrote...
Because its nonsense. I can see how Destroy or control would work but not synthesis.
The Angry One wrote...
Because the Reapers win. Forever.
/thread
M25105 wrote...
Life is about overcoming obstacles, growing stronger and wiser through your own experiences.
Synthesis basically takes a big dump on that.
There's a reason why so many consider Synthesis vile.
M25105 wrote...
Life is about overcoming obstacles, growing stronger and wiser through your own experiences.
Synthesis basically takes a big dump on that.
There's a reason why so many consider Synthesis vile.
translationninja wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
Welsh Inferno wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
translationninja wrote...
I have come to the conclusion that people who want to hate synthesis will simply shut their mind to the realization that genocide is more unacceptable than forced change.
No rational argument in the world will make a change there.
What me changed against my will? Nuh uh!!! Go kill a trillion other sentient beings instead!!!!
a billion. and google genocide, synthesis destroy what the races once was in order to make a new one. that right there is genocide
I love what this thread has turned into.
mmmmkay, I guess for ghost having a different skin color and more knowledge in your head equals being dead... can't even argue with that it's so out there...
rewriting their dna changes what they were, the species like say asari is no more. they may look it but they are changed, that is destroying a ethnic or racial group which is genocide. turning everyone into the same thing by altering their dna means they are no longer what they use to be
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but you are really wrong. Take GMOs for example, a genetically modified tomato is still a tomato. It doesn't stop being a tomato because it now has a peanut gene fused into its genome. Of course you can call it peanato because you choose to believe it's not a tomato anymore, however, for all intents and purposes it is still a tomato.
u don't just add to it, you rewrite it, change everyones dna to make them the same. i am just saying what the catalyst pretty much said, you do destroy that racial and ethnic group and in doing so genocide.
and as i said my argument makes as much sense as synthesis. except mine is a little bit true
He says there will be something new, not something homogenized across all races. I don't know how this idea that everything and everyone will have an exact same copy of the very same DNA came up. Nothing ingame hints at that option or precludes the same amount or even greater diversity after synthesis.
People really just made the "everything will be the same" up as they go. If everyone would have the exact identical DNA copy afterwards, then why are there Krogan and Humans and Husks in the cutscenes and slides rather than unified look-alike green toasters?
wantedman dan wrote...
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
*sigh* Do you deliberatly misrepresent my argument just to bully me? Just because you don't like me? Or what?
I didn't say anything about slavery.
Forcing them to hand over their tech and forcing them to commit to at least 50,000 years of labor on our behalf is not slavery?
Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 03 juillet 2012 - 08:59 .
Welsh Inferno wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Life is about overcoming obstacles, growing stronger and wiser through your own experiences.
Synthesis basically takes a big dump on that.
There's a reason why so many consider Synthesis vile.
Synthesis:
Overcoming Obstacles: Check.
Growing Stronger: Check.
Wiser through experience: Check.
77boy84 wrote...
Irish286 wrote...
Because its nonsense. I can see how Destroy or control would work but not synthesis.
You know, I keep popping into this thread, just to read the arguements, and I always see one or two posts like these.
I think it's pretty telling that everyone that picked Synthesis will argue up and down about the morals and implications behind it, but no one can really defend it when someone says "It just makes no sense".
Welsh Inferno wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
wasn't there something about advancing a species before they are ready., i believe it turned out bad
preffer to have ppl learn it on their own rather then "like giving nuclear weapons to caveman"
You can't see how contacting and uplifting a race solely to war with another & Synthesis are different? That's not my fault buddy.
Modifié par ghost9191, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .
M25105 wrote...
Welsh Inferno wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Life is about overcoming obstacles, growing stronger and wiser through your own experiences.
Synthesis basically takes a big dump on that.
There's a reason why so many consider Synthesis vile.
Synthesis:
Overcoming Obstacles: Check.
Growing Stronger: Check.
Wiser through experience: Check.
Not by our means. And since Synthesis changes everything what we are, we're nothing but living zombies glowing green.
translationninja wrote...
77boy84 wrote...
Irish286 wrote...
Because its nonsense. I can see how Destroy or control would work but not synthesis.
You know, I keep popping into this thread, just to read the arguements, and I always see one or two posts like these.
I think it's pretty telling that everyone that picked Synthesis will argue up and down about the morals and implications behind it, but no one can really defend it when someone says "It just makes no sense".
Well, uhm, I don't understand how quantum physics could work, does that make it nonsense too?
Modifié par Meltemph, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:04 .
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Welsh Inferno wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Life is about overcoming obstacles, growing stronger and wiser through your own experiences.
Synthesis basically takes a big dump on that.
There's a reason why so many consider Synthesis vile.
Synthesis:
Overcoming Obstacles: Check.
Growing Stronger: Check.
Wiser through experience: Check.
Not by our means. And since Synthesis changes everything what we are, we're nothing but living zombies glowing green.
If synthesis in ME3 works the same way as it does in Deus Ex 2 than we're not fundamentally changed who we are, nor are we living zombies glowing green.
I don't like synthesis for the fact that it just doesn't fit in the Mass Effect lore, but I can definetely see the appeal in synthesis. I chose control myself though.
Modifié par Meltemph, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .
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