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Why is everyone so against Synthesis?


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#151
translationninja

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The Angry One wrote...

translationninja wrote...

You are aware though that pretty much any and all great advances in the history of civilization were opposed by some ideologues, rite?

I for one am very glad that there were people that had the balls to make the decision and force them through, otherwise we'd be sitting around the campfire wondering if we fall off the rims of a flat rectangular world.

I suppose the good people of the medieval ages would have reacted the very same way had you proposed to them to live in a world where their believe of an almighty allseeing judge was unnecessary.

Surely they would have imagined such a world as Dante's inferno (actually, they did).

And have you ever seen a pacifist preventing a war by sitting in protest? Because that is what reject is, sitting in protest pouting gambling with the existance of every life being in the galaxy.

That is neither heroic nor wise or prudent.


Synthesis is not advancement. It is forcing everyone into a Reaper ideal of the future. That's not the same thing now, is it?


That is absolutely and entirely your very own private and personal interpretation of which you think it is right enough and important enough to impose it on the entire galaxy. As I have mentioned before, your perspective and standpoint may differ from the Catalyst's, but your modus operandi does not.

You would gamble with a gazillion life's to cater to your own perception of right and wrong without consideration of how they may feel about it, you just so take it upon yourself to make the right and wrong decision for them, which is exactly the thing you decry about synthesis.

The essence of synthesis that you decry is it imposes change onto sentient beings, yet you take it upon yourself to make a decision of right and wrong for all sentient beings, see the conundrum there?

What makes your view better than anyone else's?

#152
Reptilian Rob

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The Angry One wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

It's his choise, you have problem with that? You think he should choose Refuse, because you think it's best? 
Everyone should have a choice, you can't pull one size fits all. If I want to Destroy the Reapers, I'll do it. If I want to control them, I choose Control. If someone wants to Refuse, he can do it. There will always be people who will say that their choice is correct and your not.
Anyway, all remain in their beliefs and head-canons.


His choice was bad and he should feel bad.

On that I disagree, no option is right or wrong. It's just what you personally believe in your PTs. I find synthesis an unholy evil, but I'm not going to say it's a bad choice for the other people who choose it that's assumptive and condescending. 

Why worry about other people's PTs anyway, you don't have to pick synthesis so let it go I say. 


No, it's bad. It counters everything about Mass Effect, and it lets the Reapers win.
Do you think Mass Effect 1 was written to one day promote a Reaper victory? I don't think so.

Comparing apples to oranges, ME1 is not ME3 as ME1 was not about a galactic war. Different thematics, ME3 has a theme of "Victory through sacrifice" something we were beaten over the head with at every turn (Victory at any cost - Victus)

Please don't make me explain space operatics again...My poor fingers...

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .


#153
Forbry

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v TricKy v wrote...

Forbry wrote...

Bfler wrote...

shadey wrote...

I don't think people understand synthesis

it doesn't change them into zombies under reaper control.
.


Look at the Husk in the ending sequence. Such an individual is perverted.


Why, because it's ugly or because you don't have an open mind? I have no problem believing it could be/become friendly.

Would you still think that if it would have mauled your mom to death?


Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 

#154
weltraumhamster89

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shadey wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

NO. You just said that it doesnt change their nature, nor would it change the individuals they are.
If there now magically was no difference anymore between organics and synths (just by making the organics partly synthetic), that would mean you did change their nature and they wouldnt be the same individuals anymore.

No difference between organics and synths anymore?? please. then there are no organics anymore nor are there synthetics left. They way you describe it it would be a bunch of hybrids who ceased to be what they were before: living beings, individuals.


implanting cybernetic infrastructure into an organism would not change it's personality or who it is as an individual




You are clearly moving in circles here or you dont understand what I mean.  So again:

If synthesis did not change the nature/ individualism of the beings, then there is not at all a guarantee for peace between organics and synthetics.  If it is not changed how people think, react etc to synthetics (as in the ME their relationship was rather pictured as a difficult one), then there is no guarantee for peace. If it is changed how people think, react etc, then you would have changed the people's nature. So not the same people anymore.

#155
Reptilian Rob

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translationninja wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

translationninja wrote...

You are aware though that pretty much any and all great advances in the history of civilization were opposed by some ideologues, rite?

I for one am very glad that there were people that had the balls to make the decision and force them through, otherwise we'd be sitting around the campfire wondering if we fall off the rims of a flat rectangular world.

I suppose the good people of the medieval ages would have reacted the very same way had you proposed to them to live in a world where their believe of an almighty allseeing judge was unnecessary.

Surely they would have imagined such a world as Dante's inferno (actually, they did).

And have you ever seen a pacifist preventing a war by sitting in protest? Because that is what reject is, sitting in protest pouting gambling with the existance of every life being in the galaxy.

That is neither heroic nor wise or prudent.


Synthesis is not advancement. It is forcing everyone into a Reaper ideal of the future. That's not the same thing now, is it?


You would gamble with a gazillion life's to cater to your own perception of right and wrong without consideration of how they may feel about it.

What makes your view better than anyone else's?

As much as I hate synthesis I agree with this post. Again, it's what moral line you are willing to cross to make it end.

Emphasis on YOU, YOU personally. No one else. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:41 .


#156
The Angry One

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translationninja wrote...

That is absolutely and entirely your very own private and personal interpretation of which you think it is right enough and important enough to impose it on the entire galaxy. As I have mentioned before, your perspective and standpoint may differ from the Catalyst's, but your modus operandi does not.

You would gamble with a gazillion life's to cater to your own perception of right and wrong without consideration of how they may feel about it, you just so take it upon yourself to make the right and wrong decision for them, which is exactly the thing you decry about synthesis.


The entire battle of Earth is already a gamble.
Again, everyone has agreed to fight the Reapers. If it is a gamble, it is everyone's gamble.

Synthesis is a ridiculous imposition on all beings without their consent.

The essence of synthesis that you decry is it imposes change onto sentient beings, yet you take it upon yourself to make a decision of right and wrong for all sentient beings, see the conundrum there?

What makes your view better than anyone else's?


THE DECISION WAS ALREADY MADE.
I am sick and tired of this argument that I have debunked over and over. The agreement was made.
Fight and resist the Reapers or die trying. Only reject and destroy even come close to fulfilling that agreement.

Also, the Catalyst is the one forcing Shepard to make decisions on the spot, yet you never criticise it, do you?
No it's all on the player. It's all our fault. It doesn't matter that this murderous monster is shifting responsibility and throwing tantrums if questioned.

I've never seen a villain defended this way before in all my years.

#157
Lord Goose

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They way you describe it it would be a bunch
of hybrids who ceased to be what they were before: living
beings, individuals.

What?
Shouldn't they just be heavily upgraded with synthetic parts?

to fight and destroy the reapers

Let's assume that Destroy option requires sacrifice of all organic life to stop the Reapers. Would it still follod pre-established agreement?

I think not. The goal was to save the galaxy. Reapers death is one way to do it, peace with Reapers is another.

#158
The Angry One

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Reptilian Rob wrote...

Comparing apples to oranges, ME1 is not ME3 as ME1 was not about a galactic war. Different thematics, ME3 has a theme of "Victory through sacrifice" something we were beaten over the head with at every turn (Victory at any cost - Victus)

Please don't make me explain space operatics again...My poor fingers...



Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

Reject may mean the fall of this cycle, but the next cycle will dispose of the Reapers.
Synthesis means the Reapers will have won, not just this cycle, but forever. All organic and synthetic life exterminated and replaced with their ideal. The Reapers made immortal in a society they have crafted.
It's flat out disgusting.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:42 .


#159
MisterJB

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weltraumhamster89 wrote...
Well then the Catalysts solution did not work to prevent wars between synthetics and organics.
If their nature is not changed, why should synthesis then provide peace between the two?
Whatever way you try to look at synthesis, its nonsensical, pointless and sickening in every regard.

Organics are given synthetic upgrades that will allow us ro rely less on machines; thus there will be less chances of AIs beng created; as well as compete with synthetics should we ever go to war; thus there will be less chances of them causing our extinction; and synthetics will be given full understanding of organics as well as true emotions which will stop them from devaluing our lives on the basis that they don't need us anymore.

That doesn't mean it's a "press button for utopia" solution. The Catalyst says it can't forced which leads me to believe unless both forms of life have shown indication of being willing to cooperate, it will fail and war will return.

The thind is, play your EMS right, and you can get Synthesis despite having killed the geth.

#160
Forbry

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The Angry One wrote...

Forbry wrote...

All other endings force something on others too. Really not that hard to see if you wánt to see it.


Reject and destroy follow on from pre-established agreements to fight and destroy the Reapers.
Control is an arrogant power-grab, but still leaves people unchanged.

It is not the same and you know it.


Force can come in different shapes and colors, but it still remains/entails force.

#161
Reptilian Rob

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The Angry One wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Comparing apples to oranges, ME1 is not ME3 as ME1 was not about a galactic war. Different thematics, ME3 has a theme of "Victory through sacrifice" something we were beaten over the head with at every turn (Victory at any cost - Victus)

Please don't make me explain space operatics again...My poor fingers...



Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

Which is why I don't pick it. lol

#162
Bfler

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Forbry wrote...

.....

Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 


An in case the Husk was your mom, before some Raepers killed her?

#163
MisterJB

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The Angry One wrote...
Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

No, that's Refusal.

Modifié par MisterJB, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:42 .


#164
The Angry One

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MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

No, that's Refusal.


See my edit above, but I'll reiterate. Refusal is the fall of this cycle. Synthesis is the fall of eternity itself.

#165
v TricKy v

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Forbry wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Forbry wrote...

Bfler wrote...

shadey wrote...

I don't think people understand synthesis

it doesn't change them into zombies under reaper control.
.


Look at the Husk in the ending sequence. Such an individual is perverted.


Why, because it's ugly or because you don't have an open mind? I have no problem believing it could be/become friendly.

Would you still think that if it would have mauled your mom to death?


Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 

Ok I see where this going. Lets say its easy to talk about something when its in a game and not real. You wouldnt say that if it happend in real life. We both know that

#166
Forbry

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Bfler wrote...

Forbry wrote...

.....

Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 


An in case the Husk was your mom, before some Raepers killed her?


Yes.

For me it's the same as shooting the Geth first and loving Legion (and the rest of the Geth) later.

#167
translationninja

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MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

No, that's Refusal.


Not if you watch a lot of Braveheart, and Pearl Harbor and such where everyone can't wait to die for their convictions, and everyone dies beatifully without their guts and poop splashed all over the guy next to them...

Modifié par translationninja, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:44 .


#168
MisterJB

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The Angry One wrote...
See my edit above, but I'll reiterate. Refusal is the fall of this cycle. Synthesis is the fall of eternity itself.

Synthesis is the improvement of the matrix of all life forever.

#169
The Angry One

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MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
See my edit above, but I'll reiterate. Refusal is the fall of this cycle. Synthesis is the fall of eternity itself.

Synthesis is the improvement of the matrix of all life forever.


By the definition of who? The Reapers.

No thank you.

#170
Escocido

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Bfler wrote...

Forbry wrote...

.....

Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 


An in case the Husk was your mom, before some Raepers killed her?


This opens so many possibilities for "Your mom" jokes. 

#171
v TricKy v

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translationninja wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

No, that's Refusal.


Not if you watch a lot of Braveheart, and Pearl Harbor and such where everyone can't wait to die for their convictions, and everyone dies beatifully without their guts and poop splashed all over the guy next to them...

300
nuff said

#172
Reptilian Rob

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The Angry One wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Victory at any cost.
Synthesis is total defeat.

No, that's Refusal.


See my edit above, but I'll reiterate. Refusal is the fall of this cycle. Synthesis is the fall of eternity itself.

Both synthesis and refuse are bloody stupid IMO, which is why I never pick them, same with control to a lesser degree. 

Emphasis on my opinion. 

#173
Forbry

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v TricKy v wrote...

Forbry wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Forbry wrote...

Bfler wrote...

shadey wrote...

I don't think people understand synthesis

it doesn't change them into zombies under reaper control.
.


Look at the Husk in the ending sequence. Such an individual is perverted.


Why, because it's ugly or because you don't have an open mind? I have no problem believing it could be/become friendly.

Would you still think that if it would have mauled your mom to death?


Yes, beacuse the reaper" that mauled my mom to death"  will not be there anymore. 

Ok I see where this going. Lets say its easy to talk about something when its in a game and not real. You wouldnt say that if it happend in real life. We both know that


Of course. You're right. Maybe my emotions would get in the way after all. But a paragon hero would be able to set aside that emotions, that is my point. It would be the morally "right" thing to do.

#174
Lord Goose

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Reject may mean the fall of this cycle, but the next cycle will
dispose of the Reapers.


You know, they built and used Crucible. Maybe even Synthesis.

#175
Lord Goose

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By the definition of who? The Reapers. No thank you.

Argumentum ad hominem.

Just because they're villains doesn't mean that they're always wrong.