267 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

[CronoDragoon]

I will say though, that narrative innovation has never really been BioWare's forte. What BioWare does better than anyone is master the cliche, and fool us into thinking it's not a cliche. Their characters have enough subtlety and nuance such that Tali for example - who in a Tales game would have been a Hinata pushover character stuttering the whole damn time - instead feels like someone who came from a real culture and has a developed personality. Even BioWare's greatest plot twist of all time with Revan is a well-known cliche. I was still surprised.

[Urdnot Amenark]

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

A "unite a group of misfit to take on a larger foe" story is not a cliche. That's a trope.

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

Generalizing enough will make any story sound cliche. How many stories do you know that involve curing a disease inflicted upon a race for its past sins?

[o Ventus]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

A "unite a group of misfit to take on a larger foe" story is not a cliche. That's a trope.

No, it's a cliche.

An expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.

Modifié par o Ventus, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:45 .

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

Generalizing enough will make any story sound cliche. How many stories do you know that involve curing a disease inflicted upon a race for its past sins?

Right off the top of my head... The werewolves in DAO.

[Urdnot Amenark]

o Ventus wrote...

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

And how exactly is cliche not one of them? How many "Unite a group of misfits to take on a larger foe" stories do you know of?

A "unite a group of misfit to take on a larger foe" story is not a cliche. That's a trope.

No, it's a cliche.

Clearly doesn't understand what a cliche is.

[Xandurpein]

Actually the writing in Mass Effect is overall very good in my opinion. The real failure was in project management. Looking individually at all the subplots they were all good. They did however fail to make it into a coherent whole. Bioware is a collective of writers. The "lost" dark energy plot, the things that were never explained and so on, is better atributed to bad overall management, than bad writing, in my opinion. Even the attempt to graft the RGB ending to the story is also more a case of bad design than actually bad writing, at least after the EC, I think.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:52 .

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...
Right off the top of my head... The werewolves in DAO.

That's actually a cool comparison I somehow had not thought of. So that's 1.

[Nerevar-as]

Xandurpein wrote...

Actually the writing in Mass Effect is overall very good in my opinion. The real failure was in project management. Looking individually at all the subplots they were all good. They did however fail to make it into a coherent whole. Bioware is a collective of writers. The "lost" dark energy plot, the things that were never explained and so on, is better atributed to bad overall management, than bad writing, in my opinion. The attempt to graft the RGB ending to the story is also more a case of bad design than actually bad weiting, at least after the EC.

There´s a lead writer. Look at the beginning and end of ME3. Look at the main plot of ME2.

[Drake Averrod]

I think ME3 main problem (apart from the ending) is not that it is an inherently bad game but that it does some many things worse than its predecessors. Like any other artist or producer of goods, Bioware is judged by the quality of their product in relation to their previous products. If they don't live up to the established standard they will be considered bad. This does not mean a producer has to surpass himself every time. It is however imperative to atleast reach a certain standard and quite frankly ME3 IMHO fails to do so.

[CronoDragoon]

Drake Averrod wrote...

I think ME3 main problem (apart from the ending) is not that it is an inherently bad game but that it does some many things worse than its predecessors. Like any other artist or producer of goods, Bioware is judged by the quality of their product in relation to their previous products. If they don't live up to the established standard they will be considered bad. This does not mean a producer has to surpass himself every time. It is however imperative to atleast reach a certain standard and quite frankly ME3 IMHO fails to do so.

Yeah but the thing we have to be careful of is doing this every time a new game comes out. It seems like every game that comes out is bad in comparison to the previous one. Like I said before David Gaider once talked about how Baldur's Gate II was allegedly bashed by people when it was released. Now look at it.

I dont think this is the case for ME3 though. I think the ending was actually bad enough to deserve the criticism. But I personally do not feel the rest of the game's writing deserves the hate it's getting. Prior to the endings, I thought ME3 had the best story in the trilogy.

[Malkeor]

Video games like this one have the potential to really make you more involved with the story than any other media.
I think they did a really, really good job.

It doesn't matter if you like the ending or not, you can't dismiss the fact that you think the same way. Ending or not. Just forget about it, and think back.

Modifié par Malkeor, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:22 .

[Biotic Flash Kick]

you are right
IT DESERVES MORE!

[VoodooDrackus]

Alushadow wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I always see posts bashing the writing of ME1,2 and 3. Granted there are plot holes, but c'mon guys. The BioWare writing staff is miles ahead of most developers. I've never been more involved in any other video games. The Dragon Age series feels like a novel unfolding before your eyes. A novel you get to write. The Mass Effect series feels like a movie you get to star in. The BioWare team is great at their jobs, we've just been spoiled by their talent.



...granted their work is not perfect, but it's definately good.

since you played just ME3
i will tell you it quick
go away

You do realize that even if it is not listed it does not mean he/she has not played the game. ME3 just makes it easy to register, the other games not so much. You have to pull them out and actively register them for them to show up if you played them on the XBOX. And even then you could just get the product code from the game at any game store without opening the box (UPC) and enter it in to the BSN and register it.

[devSin]

ME3 has some of the worst dialogue to have ever originated from BioWare. Luckily, there's lots of good in there too, but man does some of it stink.

The main plot is laughably bad. This should not have survived the first team meeting, let alone actually be put into production. And the ending was criminal.

BioWare is not unquestionably great. They do deserve some criticism for their writing. But ME3 truly takes them to a new low. I would typically rate them above-average (at least comparatively), but the quality of writing in ME3 all too often falls below the standard I previously held them to. Hopefully they do whatever is necessary to improve in the future, at least to the point where the inevitable instances of poor writing don't drag the whole game down with them.

Modifié par devSin, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:29 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Do you think the script writers read these threads?

[CronoDragoon]

jreezy wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Lol, GTFO. 

I agree. I can't believe he just shot down Max Payne, Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, Oblivion, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, and Grand Theft Auto's writing.

I didn't shoot it down. I said the writing not better than the Mass Effect series. I happen to greatly enjoy most of those games. It's not "shooting down" LeBron to say he's not better than Jordan, Magic, or Bird.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:28 .

[Hackulator]

Mass Effect (as a trilogy) has probably the best storyline of any video game I've ever played. In fact, I had basically given up on SP games until someone bought me ME3 and I went back and played through the entire series. Is it the quality of the best literature out there? No, of course not. Is it the best quality writing ever done in its medium? Probably.

Anyone who claims the Mass Effect Trilogy is badly written is either comparing it to Cormac McCarthy, trolling, or just has no idea what good writing is.

Modifié par Hackulator, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:23 .

[Tritium315]

It actually does, it really, really does.

[mauro2222]

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I got my Xbox a year ago. Up until then I played on my friends Xbox because I liked playing video games, he wanted to show me some cool games, I kicked it there everyday and I couldn't afford one. I got a job and bought my own Xbox so I could have my own games and saves. Plus, mooching off your friend just isn't cool.

You sound poor.

Hahaha

I'm loving this thread.