267 réponses à ce sujet

[SnazzyBeast]

CronoDragoon wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

I didn't join these forums until after ME3. I'm sure there wasn't nearly as much negativity on here after ME or ME2, but for anyone who was around then - what was it like? I'm just curious. It seems that any forum for any form of media that i like is always full of people bashing the show/game etc. or talking about how it has regressed from previous seasons/releases. I don't know if i just have a habit of joining at a bad time, or if that is just the nature of forums. I know people are more likely to be vocal if they're unhappy or unsatisfied...

Funny story: Someone on the DA boards asked David Gaider around the time of Origins how he deals with all the complaints on the boards. Gaider responded that when Baldur's Gate II came out, people were saying it was the worst thing ever and that BioWare had disappointed themselves. BALDUR'S GATE II. The story is: There will always be a large amount of complainers online, no matter what the game. Of course, I think the extreme ubiquity of the ME3 complaints is not quite covered by the "haters gonna hate" thing. This time there was just too much wrong with that ending.

Yea, I wouldn't suggest that all the discontentment is completely unmerited, but i assume it has to be overstated. Thanks for the reply and to the others that replied as well.

[BatmanPWNS]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Lol, GTFO.

[Love Sherri]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

[Memnon]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

I didn't join these forums until after ME3. I'm sure there wasn't nearly as much negativity on here after ME or ME2, but for anyone who was around then - what was it like? I'm just curious. It seems that any forum for any form of media that i like is always full of people bashing the show/game etc. or talking about how it has regressed from previous seasons/releases. I don't know if i just have a habit of joining at a bad time, or if that is just the nature of forums. I know people are more likely to be vocal if they're unhappy or unsatisfied...

There are ALWAYS people who are upset about something - I've been on BW forums since the BG days. In fact - kind of a random trivia, when Tales of the Sword Coast came out, there was a bug which caused NPCs to spawn infinitely that only affected a tiny amount of people, and I e-mailed my save game to Ray Muzyka and they made a patch from my save game. Anyways - from BG, BG2, NWN and on there have been people angry and vocal about something. Having said that, I can't recall ever seeing this level of outrage at a BW game - and this is the first time I have ever been angry enough at a BW game to not want to preorder the next one. So ... that's my perspective on that

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...

So just because they're Bioware means we can't criticize them?

You can criticize them all you want, but saying that they are crap or that all of the writing is bad doesn't hold water. Bad compared to what? Lord of the Rings? Paradise Lost? Okay. They are still on the Mt. Rushmore of game story developers.

[Love Sherri]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Lol, GTFO.

Koolaid, much?

[Urdnot Amenark]

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Game sales aren't an indicator of writing quality.

[CronoDragoon]

Love Sherri wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Are you now arguing that the better a game sells the better its writing?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:23 .

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So just because they're Bioware means we can't criticize them?

You can criticize them all you want, but saying that they are crap or that all of the writing is bad doesn't hold water. Bad compared to what? Lord of the Rings? Paradise Lost? Okay. They are still on the Mt. Rushmore of game story developers.

Then how about in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise? Or the more recent Halo content? The Batman Arkham games?

Modifié par o Ventus, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:25 .

[Nerevar-as]

Master Che wrote...

Call me a cynic, but I can't help but feel that a good number of people complaning about plot holes, etc, can barely compose a college level term paper.

I doubt they are getting paid for writing either.

"We fight or we die, that´s the plan" - Yeah. I´d really like to know who wrote each part of the game..

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:26 .

[Love Sherri]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Are you now arguing that the better a game sells the better its writing?

It's a part.

People don't throw millions of dollars at poorly written games...

Oh wait....

[Urdnot Amenark]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Are you now arguing that the better a game sells the better its writing?

The Call of Duty series must be the Holy Grail of phenomenal writing then.

[Love Sherri]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Game sales aren't an indicator of writing quality.

Quality is subjective in it's meaning.

However, EA/Bioware's stock drop after ME3 is not subjective.

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So just because they're Bioware means we can't criticize them?

You can criticize them all you want, but saying that they are crap or that all of the writing is bad doesn't hold water. Bad compared to what? Lord of the Rings? Paradise Lost? Okay. They are still on the Mt. Rushmore of game story developers.

Then how about in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise? Or the more recent Halo content? The Batman Arkham games?

I haven't played Halo so I can't comment. But I do believe ME3's writing is better than Dragon Age 2's. Origins had great characters but the main plot was ridiculous and cliche. The Dark Ritual is a convoluted and contrived way to add a "nobody dies" option.
"The Archdemon's soul upon death will magically fly and destroy the soul of the Warden closest! However, if we make a 12 hour old fertilized egg, the soul will fly there instead and not destroy the egg's 'soul' because it's pure!"

I mean, I was sort of smiling just listening to the whole explanation. But people let it slide because it let their Warden survive. Imagine if such a convoluted explanation led to the death of the Warden no matter what. People would have been PISSED.

Edit: I loved Arkham Asylum, but not because it has deep, mature writing. It's classic comic book fun.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:31 .

[Urdnot Amenark]

Love Sherri wrote...

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Game sales aren't an indicator of writing quality.

Quality is subjective in it's meaning.

However, EA/Bioware's stock drop after ME3 is not subjective.

EA/Bioware's stock dropped because of the vitriol fans had over an ending they didn't like - and for good reason in some instances - an issue that their stellar marketing campaign couldn't overcome. 

Your point is a fallacy. 

EDIT: If writing quality is subjective and badly written games can also be as successful as games with good writing, then it's impossible to objectively distinguish games with bad writing from games with good writing. Your argument refutes itself.

Modifié par Urdnot Amenark, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:32 .

[CronoDragoon]

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Are you now arguing that the better a game sells the better its writing?

It's a part.

People don't throw millions of dollars at poorly written games...

Oh wait....

How clever of you to invalidate your own point.

[legion999]

Messi Kossmann wrote...

El Mito wrote...

Bioware's writing doesn't even come close to the best works of Obsidian, Valve, CDPR,....
Don't make me laugh.

Obsidian, Are you serious???????? The best game of Obsidian is worse than the worst Bioware game.

Lol no.

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So just because they're Bioware means we can't criticize them?

You can criticize them all you want, but saying that they are crap or that all of the writing is bad doesn't hold water. Bad compared to what? Lord of the Rings? Paradise Lost? Okay. They are still on the Mt. Rushmore of game story developers.

Then how about in comparison to the Dragon Age franchise? Or the more recent Halo content? The Batman Arkham games?

I haven't played Halo so I can't comment. But I do believe ME3's writing is better than Dragon Age 2's. Origins had great characters but the main plot was ridiculous and cliche. The Dark Ritual is a convoluted and contrived way to add a "nobody dies" option.
"The Archdemon's soul upon death will magically fly and destroy the soul of the Warden closest! However, if we make a 12 hour old fertilized egg, the soul will fly there instead and not destroy the egg's 'soul' because it's pure!"

I mean, I was sort of smiling just listening to the whole explanation. But people let it slide because it let their Warden survive. Imagine if such a convoluted explanation led to the death of the Warden no matter what. People would have been PISSED.

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

[Love Sherri]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

EA/Bioware's stock dropped because of the vitriol fans had over crappy writing and more plot holes than swiss cheese - and for good reason in some instances - an issue that their stellar marketing campaign couldn't overcome. 

Your point is a fallacy. 

I fixed it for you.

I don't think we disagree on this point then.

[spirosz]

Mesina2 wrote...

Alushadow wrote...
ME1 was a masterpiece

No.

Exactly, as much as I love ME1 story compared to the other two, it's better, but not that great as a whole.  People will keep insisting that it's a masterpiece of writing all they want, but it has a lot of flaws, as most games in the industry.  

But who cares really, if it makes a lot of people happy or pulls emotional strings (doesn't matter which), why should we take them away?  - I know people will say "I don't want them to continue down their path they're going because obviously I'm a better fan than others"  

I don't agree with Bioware path, but it's not up to me anymore, BSN is the minority, which people won't seem to realize, though we can still try to pull weight for future titles, but I believe it still all comes down to what EA wants as a whole, so even if Bioware decides to try "go back to their roots (whatever that implies)", I doubt it would end well.  

The Gaming community is hard impossible to please anyway.  

Modifié par spiros9110, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:35 .

[Love Sherri]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Are you now arguing that the better a game sells the better its writing?

It's a part.

People don't throw millions of dollars at poorly written games...

Oh wait....

How clever of you to invalidate your own point.

[macrocarl]

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Sales doesn't speak towards writing. Spiderman The Movie video game is on that list for example

[naes1984]

Bioware has cultivated a hardcore fanbase to make money and now it blows up in their face when they pull a fast one on us. I don't pity them for an instant. Same thing goes for Star Trek and Star Wars writers- live off the fanatical fanbase, die by the fanbase.

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...

Origins' story was ridiculous and cliche? Well, so was ME3's then. They're essentially the same thing, just one is in space and the other isn't.

Of all the things you could justifiably call ME3's plot, I actually don't believe cliche is one of them. Certainly not as it pertains to the endings.

Of course, everything in every story has been done before and is ultimately a cliche, but I don't want to go there.

[Love Sherri]

macrocarl wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Just go back and play something like Gears of War after having played the ME games. Maybe that'll make you appreciate the ME writing a bit more.

- Namco ( Tales of Vesperia ,  Dark Souls,  Eternal Sonata,  Magna Carta 2  )
- Bethesda ( Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion,  Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Fallout 3  )
- Rockstar Games ( Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto Series )
- UBI Soft ( Assassin's Creed )
- Warner Bros ( Arkham City, Arkham Asylum, The Witcher )

Just go back and play these after having played ME3.  Maybe that'll make you appreciate better writing a bit more.

Not a single one of those games has better writing than the Mass Effect series.

Mass Effect doesn't even make the list.

Sales doesn't speak towards writing. Spiderman The Movie video game is on that list for example

Don't hate.