Great topic indeed, finaly something goes along as i planed it ! Like i said i wont play bg2 very soon but i will eventualy and by then i want to be ready, also, its fun to at least talk about bg2, even if i dont have time to actualy play it.
Ok lets clear something about Crom Faeyr since you guys brought it up. Is it even worth it or would i better divide those str. items among my team ? Or incase i build this hammer, will i have enough str plus items for my party ? Personaly i never liked CF too much. I had minsc with FOA and CF and sure damage was great but most of the battles i lost was not because i didnt do enough damage but because i didnt control the battle ( i remember someone saying about DA2 on hardest difficulty, which btw i completed and was uber fun and not the least frustrating as some ppl were saying..., that the key to winning battles there is CONTROL. Thats what i have been missing all this time... ), soo for instance its much better to have weapon that slows/stuns your enemy and gives you some time to recover....
Ok to continue, first response to spidey..soo if i wanna be smart....i should put certain weapon proffy to weapons during my berserker stage and when i am mage i should make sure i dont put to those same weapons cause then mage points will be lost. But if for instance if during my mage phase i put one and first point into some weapon,when i become berserker/mage, this point will remain ? If that is soo its quite importaint, those points arent for sale...
Ok soo in the beginning it would be a waste to put more then 2 points into anything. Soo, 2 points into katanas, 2 points into long swords and 2 points into 2 handed weapon style. I might be puting a third point there just for the sakes of it...When i get an extra point i will put it to long bow and after i become mage i will put 1 point into everything at least a bit usefull. When im berserker/mage i will ( when i have spare points ) put 3rd 4th and 5th point into long sword and katana. Its minor i know but still, since THACO will be quite low, every point will help !
I am dualing at 13, no question here, i remember how much trouble i had with kensei that dualed at 9....And when its late game it really makes no difference whether you are level 23 or level 25.
Purified was first meant for Minsc but then i read he cant use it. Soo it will be for haerdalis, and like i said, Aerie will get it since she is LG.
Flail is first priority of Minsc, he will use them for the most of the game. He will use FOA and easthaven ( for its 20% defence since first priority of Minsc will be to stay alive... ). I am thinking whether to assemble CF and have it as backup for minsc for when he doesnt need easthaven ( when battle is not tough ).
And about messing around during time stop, enemys will be imune to lots of things but i will find something that will damage them. For instance, something that has long term bleed effect. Aerie or immy atack during time stop and that thingy wont cast spells for quite a while since it will get interupted. Indeed, if its a mage, why not just kill it during time stop, yes, but in TOB its not uncommon for 400hp beasts to cast spells, not to mention the last fight where Melissan appears when u kill 1 of the enemies, which means, the point is not to kill them but to make them harmless until u can kill most of em at once.
Starting BG2 again, what do you think about my party
Débuté par
goblinsly1
, juil. 03 2012 12:11
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#27
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 04:28
ussnorway
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Let’s see there is the “Girdle of Hill, Stone & Fire Giant Strength” so that’s 3 belts then you also have the “Bag of Holding” from spell hold so how many high strength people do you really need... of course CF itself but I agree Minsc doesn’t require it.
Be careful because it’s not like your mage will get a lot of pips to spend after he duals from a Berserker and personally the point of playing a Fighter class is the fact that you can have 5 pips in your main weapon but that’s a decision for you to make... once you dual to Mage any Fighter pips/ abilities are locked out (they disappear) until you have one more Mage level than Fighter levels so Mage level 14 is when you can use a katana again.
IMO the biggest problem with three arcane casters is finding the scrolls for them... the important scrolls like ‘Chain Contingency’ & ‘Wish’ don’t just full from the sky & it’s very unlikely that Aerie can cast level nine arcane before reaching ToB.
What’s my motivation here?
Personally as a no-reload player I need to know the particulars before I can make meaningful suggestions about tactics otherwise we are all still trying to figure out who is doing what job and if they are in melee or firing spells from range.
For the sake of argument let’s take the final boss fight in hell against big bad bro!
Obviously you have been grinding up to this point and have foreknowledge that Icky will bring four pals along so I’ll try to set the scene.
Let’s say Haerdalis is level 26 and has ‘Use any Item’ (UaI), ‘Enhanced Bard Song’ (EBS) & ‘Spike Trap’ (ST)*... his opening ST ** only takes out one demon so there are still a balor, two Glabrezu and Irenicus to deal with and everyone on our side has ‘Protection from evil’ & ‘Defensive Harmony’.
I’ll buff with ‘Blur’, ‘Defensive Spin’ (DfS) and ‘EBS’ before the battle starts i.e. stupidly hard to hit and move *** him next to the Balor... he’s not attacking it but the song gives the rest of us armour, fear, stun and confusion buffs... points finger at Minsc.
Q. What are you going to have the rest of the party doing and what mods effect this i.e. how long a battle is it?
2 hick ups.
1. Haerdalis has the Balor locked down but the two Glabrezu run past you and attack Imoen as you pause the game... she now has 8 hp & stealth is not going to work against these guys so what’s the plan now?
2. Haerdalis stopped singing and the balor has stunned Minsc while 1 is happening... he still has 100 health so far so what’s the plan now?
* let’s say he set four of these before the battle starts (2 at the main door & 2 somewhere else as a backup) and has then sleep to reset it.
** SCS Icky is immune to trap damage (at the start of battle) & the Tactics remix Icky isn’t.
*** Haerdalis has the “Ring of Free Action” temp equipped so that he can move under DfS.
p.s. If you don’t want this scenario then feel free to insert another one or just say no thanks... this is just how my mind works in BG2 but it doesn’t matter how easy/ hard as the point is to see how the party will interact with each other and who will be doing what roll.
Be careful because it’s not like your mage will get a lot of pips to spend after he duals from a Berserker and personally the point of playing a Fighter class is the fact that you can have 5 pips in your main weapon but that’s a decision for you to make... once you dual to Mage any Fighter pips/ abilities are locked out (they disappear) until you have one more Mage level than Fighter levels so Mage level 14 is when you can use a katana again.
IMO the biggest problem with three arcane casters is finding the scrolls for them... the important scrolls like ‘Chain Contingency’ & ‘Wish’ don’t just full from the sky & it’s very unlikely that Aerie can cast level nine arcane before reaching ToB.
What’s my motivation here?
Personally as a no-reload player I need to know the particulars before I can make meaningful suggestions about tactics otherwise we are all still trying to figure out who is doing what job and if they are in melee or firing spells from range.
For the sake of argument let’s take the final boss fight in hell against big bad bro!
Obviously you have been grinding up to this point and have foreknowledge that Icky will bring four pals along so I’ll try to set the scene.
Let’s say Haerdalis is level 26 and has ‘Use any Item’ (UaI), ‘Enhanced Bard Song’ (EBS) & ‘Spike Trap’ (ST)*... his opening ST ** only takes out one demon so there are still a balor, two Glabrezu and Irenicus to deal with and everyone on our side has ‘Protection from evil’ & ‘Defensive Harmony’.
I’ll buff with ‘Blur’, ‘Defensive Spin’ (DfS) and ‘EBS’ before the battle starts i.e. stupidly hard to hit and move *** him next to the Balor... he’s not attacking it but the song gives the rest of us armour, fear, stun and confusion buffs... points finger at Minsc.
Q. What are you going to have the rest of the party doing and what mods effect this i.e. how long a battle is it?
2 hick ups.
1. Haerdalis has the Balor locked down but the two Glabrezu run past you and attack Imoen as you pause the game... she now has 8 hp & stealth is not going to work against these guys so what’s the plan now?
2. Haerdalis stopped singing and the balor has stunned Minsc while 1 is happening... he still has 100 health so far so what’s the plan now?
* let’s say he set four of these before the battle starts (2 at the main door & 2 somewhere else as a backup) and has then sleep to reset it.
** SCS Icky is immune to trap damage (at the start of battle) & the Tactics remix Icky isn’t.
*** Haerdalis has the “Ring of Free Action” temp equipped so that he can move under DfS.
p.s. If you don’t want this scenario then feel free to insert another one or just say no thanks... this is just how my mind works in BG2 but it doesn’t matter how easy/ hard as the point is to see how the party will interact with each other and who will be doing what roll.
Modifié par ussnorway, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:30 .
#28
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 10:20
goblinsly1
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Two things i wont be using, traps - feels like cheating - its like landing 1000 skull traps before battle at the place where enemy will appear - and yes, i done that before, actualy as much as i am ashamed, i never completed first phase of Tactics last battle without this - but i will complete it now, i will install that first battle is from Tactics and second is well, Irenicus and 4 demons.
And Defensive spin + ring of free action - feels cheesy.
How come Glabrezu attacked imoen ? Shes a mage, she casts PfMW and mr. Glabrezu can go away.
I might be assembling CF afterall, its a special weapon, might be usefull for fights with enemies that have extreme low AC or maybe when i find someone not immune to critical hits - CF and critical hits - huge damage - add some cleric buffs - even better damage.
I need items improving str not for carrying but for well, lower THACO and better damage.
Btw what about Yoshimo ? Keep him from the beginning or just take him before i go to get Imoen ? What i am trying to figure out is whether hes worth the exp he will take away....all exp will be divided by 6 instead of 5...and his door opening and trap disabling exp wont give that back...He could be usefull for disabling traps - i can already detect them and also open locks - but traps arent really that powerfull in Bg2. Well, waiting for your opinion.
And Defensive spin + ring of free action - feels cheesy.
How come Glabrezu attacked imoen ? Shes a mage, she casts PfMW and mr. Glabrezu can go away.
I might be assembling CF afterall, its a special weapon, might be usefull for fights with enemies that have extreme low AC or maybe when i find someone not immune to critical hits - CF and critical hits - huge damage - add some cleric buffs - even better damage.
I need items improving str not for carrying but for well, lower THACO and better damage.
Btw what about Yoshimo ? Keep him from the beginning or just take him before i go to get Imoen ? What i am trying to figure out is whether hes worth the exp he will take away....all exp will be divided by 6 instead of 5...and his door opening and trap disabling exp wont give that back...He could be usefull for disabling traps - i can already detect them and also open locks - but traps arent really that powerfull in Bg2. Well, waiting for your opinion.
#29
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 10:37
Tiglath-Pileser
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goblinsly1 wrote...
Btw what about Yoshimo ? Keep him from the beginning or just take him before i go to get Imoen ?
Well, you can do both. Get Yoshimo and go to Spellhold right away. I usually do most available sidequests before saving Imoen. However, from a roleplaying point of view protagonist would want to save his/her friend as soon as possible. Also, when you do it this way Imoen isn't that much behind in terms of levels compared to the rest of your party and I like keeping my crew at about equal experience, but maybe it's just me.
#30
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 02:33
ussnorway
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goblinsly1 wrote...
Two things i wont be using, traps - feels like cheating - its like landing 1000 skull traps before battle at the place where enemy will appear - and yes, i done that before, actualy as much as i am ashamed, i never completed first phase of Tactics last battle without this - but i will complete it now, i will install that first battle is from Tactics and second is well, Irenicus and 4 demons.
And Defensive spin + ring of free action - feels cheesy.
How come Glabrezu attacked imoen ? Shes a mage, she casts PfMW and mr. Glabrezu can go away.
I might be assembling CF afterall, its a special weapon, might be usefull for fights with enemies that have extreme low AC or maybe when i find someone not immune to critical hits - CF and critical hits - huge damage - add some cleric buffs - even better damage.
I need items improving str not for carrying but for well, lower THACO and better damage.
Btw what about Yoshimo ? Keep him from the beginning or just take him before i go to get Imoen ? What i am trying to figure out is whether hes worth the exp he will take away....all exp will be divided by 6 instead of 5...and his door opening and trap disabling exp wont give that back...He could be usefull for disabling traps - i can already detect them and also open locks - but traps arent really that powerfull in Bg2. Well, waiting for your opinion.
1. Wow that’s going to have a large impact on your game.
2. So move forward and then Dfs... the end result is much the same.
3. Yes they attacked her because she was a mage... you will have basic SCS installed right?
4. Good for you, if someone gets splat and you want to swap in Viccy then she will have a nice weapon... better to have it and not want it right?
5. I get you like Str but what I’m having trouble wrapping my noddle around is that 3 str belts are not enough and the other items like; weapons, spells and potions don’t cut it? It is your game!
6. The guy is a trap specialist (and you won’t be using traps) so kick him... I’m with Tiglath-Pileser about getting your sister early besides you can always use the slot to do some of the other NPCs’ personal quests.
IMO with no Thief your party will have issues with invisible targets (especially mages) more than opening doors and spotting traps (which sis can actually do)... the lack of a Cleric would be annoying for me but most people don’t even know what ‘Turn’ is so that’s probably not a major issue & “Methild's Harp” can help make up for the lack of ‘Remove Paralysis’.
#31
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 06:25
ScotGaymer
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Mr Spidey wrote...
@ FitScotGaymer
Are you playing that classic "opinions can't be wrong" card? Pfft. No, your opinion isn't wrong per se, but the details your opinion is based on are indeed questionable. And no, your opinion doesn't offend me at all. I was just correcting what seems to be persistent inaccuracies.
No offense but ur a bit rude. Seriously.
Nothing I said was a definitive declaration of fact.
I was airing my opinion on Jaheira's and Aerie's personalities which prompted you to attack me. How someone feel's about their personalities is entirely subjective and thus CANNOT be "wrong" so there was absolutely no need to attack me in that way about it.
If you were disagreeing with me about specific things like if I'd made statements about how the gameplay worked and I was wrong then that would be fine but I didn't.
The closest I came to anything like that was where I told the OP what I did with Jaheira/Aerie when I played with them; again it wasn't a wide sweeping statement of fact or what the OP absolutely must do.
No I am afraid you were offended at my personal dislike of Aerie and Jaheira's personalities and decided to go after me for it.
At least that's how it looks to me because you can not refute me on any specifics because the only specifics I spoke of were my opinion on Aerie/Jaheira's characters, and what I did with them personally when i played with them and both of those things are subjective.
Oh wait sorry, I did say that I reckoned you could get better fighters, better shapeshifters, and better healers within the game in Jaheira's case and the OP would be better picking someone else. And that isn't wrong.
#32
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 11:05
goblinsly1
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I differ a lot concerning characters it seems....ppl say certain NPCs are annoying but thats what i love about them. I always play as a goody good, dont harm a hair on anyone ( exept in rare cases ). Jan Jensen annoying ? Hell no. Jaheira hell no. Immy ? Shes a sugar and if she want my step sister....Erm, mkay. Valygar, i always liked him, how could he be annoying ? Aerie is sweet. My point is, while they are annoying to certain ppl, they arent to others.
CF will be asembled, right you are, enough girdles and other stuff for other NPCs ( actualy i was asking if there are enough, not claiming that there isnt... ).
Not going after immy right away. Many reasons, like, many parts in that quest need a stronger party, like beholder and mind flayer part. And yes, when i go on this journey i do it all at once, no coming back, no way. And i always, even from roleplaying perspective found it better to like, come out of irenicus dungeon weak as a worm and then work my way towards strength and money ( not being a materialist but bribes, items and all ), also slaying some legendary monsters for legendary items, saving a few vilages and ppl in process...it feels more fiting, like, saving a princess, the game should end right there and expansion should be about Irenicus hehehe. Besides....did u see hot nuts Immy is by the time you come to get her ? Shes damn right insaine ! Soo even though Jon Bon surely is a guy that knows his business, i would like to think it took him some time to make her insaine. Soo yeah, no going after immy too soon.
What was it about needing Yoshimo for detecting invisible enemies ? Since when can he do this better then my mages ? Hmm, you are seriously not helping, i have never been more unsure whether to take him or not...
Btw it will be a bit different this time....usualy i completed basicly all quests before i went for immy, even Twisted rune and Kangaxx. This time surely i wont do this 2, simply too hard. I always did both dragon quests, i will probably do it before i leave for immy. DeArnes and Druid Groove are simple, what else did i leave ? Watchers keep will be done once i am in Saradush ( i dont want to do it until i am in TOB and francly i cant be bothered to do it while comets are falling on my head - Gromnir the insaine and stuff... )
Oh you said kick Yoshimo ussnorway ? Well traps seem like cheating to me soo i wont do it. I mean, no resistance, no saving throw ? I know only of 1 or 2 other ways to do this...I know its silly but i just got in my head that traps are cheating and now i cant have joy completing the game using traps. But its not importaint. Lets be honest, due to usualy finishing game with using 1 character and hiding 5 of them in the corner, it wont hurt this time to practice multitasking. SCS2 ( using plain SCS2 yea ) will help me a lot with that due to moving Robe of Vecna to TOB. This way no spellcaster will be much faster/better then all the other ones soo i will have to use them all.
Sooooo, are we clear on profs now ? They are ordered by time:
Protagonist: Katana, 2 weapon fighting, long sword, long bow
Minsc: Flail, axe, bastard sword, halberd, crossbow
Jaheira: Scimitriar, Club, Spear, Quarterstaff, sling
Haerdalis: Short sword, dagger, 2 handed sword, short bow
Immy & Aerie: Dagger ( nasty effect ones ), quarterstaff ( when jaheira is not using that venom one...they will do some nasty thingy in the timestop ), sling for aerie, short bow for immy, maybe some proficiency for CF - Aerie, i think that will be it.
All that is left is Mace and Minsc covers that ( not that i like Storm star that much.. ). I covered all the weapons i hope ? Haerdalis might be using CF aswell since if anything, he will need THACO ( my main will need it aswell but i am not puting a hammer into his hand, no way ).
Btw about attributes: Str. 18, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 18, wis 18, cha 13 ? When i go shoping i will wear that ring + cast friendship. What if i put Dex to 6 ? That way i can have 17 charisma. If my booklet is correct the same +0 +0 bonus applies whether you have 6 or 14 dexterity ? Is there anything else dexterity does ?? Because i dont need AC on my main and that 2 THACO difference between 6 and 18 dexterity simply isnt worth it. Soo, dex, only ranged thaco and AC or anything else ? Will someone refuse to speak to me because i am clumsy ? Maybe i wont get some shiny reward because they wont trust me not breaking it ???
ps: kinda felt bad for having a stat that low..felt like thats unrealistic....Minsc, the biggest star of BG2 has 8 INT and 6 WIS. And he IS a STANDARD of BG2. If Minsc has it, its not low.
). Jan Jensen annoying ? Hell no. Jaheira hell no. Immy ? Shes a sugar and if she want my step sister....Erm, mkay. Valygar, i always liked him, how could he be annoying ? Aerie is sweet. My point is, while they are annoying to certain ppl, they arent to others. CF will be asembled, right you are, enough girdles and other stuff for other NPCs ( actualy i was asking if there are enough, not claiming that there isnt... ).
Not going after immy right away. Many reasons, like, many parts in that quest need a stronger party, like beholder and mind flayer part. And yes, when i go on this journey i do it all at once, no coming back, no way. And i always, even from roleplaying perspective found it better to like, come out of irenicus dungeon weak as a worm and then work my way towards strength and money ( not being a materialist but bribes, items and all ), also slaying some legendary monsters for legendary items, saving a few vilages and ppl in process...it feels more fiting, like, saving a princess, the game should end right there and expansion should be about Irenicus hehehe. Besides....did u see hot nuts Immy is by the time you come to get her ? Shes damn right insaine ! Soo even though Jon Bon surely is a guy that knows his business, i would like to think it took him some time to make her insaine. Soo yeah, no going after immy too soon.
What was it about needing Yoshimo for detecting invisible enemies ? Since when can he do this better then my mages ? Hmm, you are seriously not helping, i have never been more unsure whether to take him or not...
Btw it will be a bit different this time....usualy i completed basicly all quests before i went for immy, even Twisted rune and Kangaxx. This time surely i wont do this 2, simply too hard. I always did both dragon quests, i will probably do it before i leave for immy. DeArnes and Druid Groove are simple, what else did i leave ? Watchers keep will be done once i am in Saradush ( i dont want to do it until i am in TOB and francly i cant be bothered to do it while comets are falling on my head - Gromnir the insaine and stuff... )
Oh you said kick Yoshimo ussnorway ? Well traps seem like cheating to me soo i wont do it. I mean, no resistance, no saving throw ? I know only of 1 or 2 other ways to do this...I know its silly but i just got in my head that traps are cheating and now i cant have joy completing the game using traps. But its not importaint. Lets be honest, due to usualy finishing game with using 1 character and hiding 5 of them in the corner, it wont hurt this time to practice multitasking. SCS2 ( using plain SCS2 yea ) will help me a lot with that due to moving Robe of Vecna to TOB. This way no spellcaster will be much faster/better then all the other ones soo i will have to use them all.
Sooooo, are we clear on profs now ? They are ordered by time:
Protagonist: Katana, 2 weapon fighting, long sword, long bow
Minsc: Flail, axe, bastard sword, halberd, crossbow
Jaheira: Scimitriar, Club, Spear, Quarterstaff, sling
Haerdalis: Short sword, dagger, 2 handed sword, short bow
Immy & Aerie: Dagger ( nasty effect ones ), quarterstaff ( when jaheira is not using that venom one...they will do some nasty thingy in the timestop ), sling for aerie, short bow for immy, maybe some proficiency for CF - Aerie, i think that will be it.
All that is left is Mace and Minsc covers that ( not that i like Storm star that much.. ). I covered all the weapons i hope ? Haerdalis might be using CF aswell since if anything, he will need THACO ( my main will need it aswell but i am not puting a hammer into his hand, no way ).
Btw about attributes: Str. 18, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 18, wis 18, cha 13 ? When i go shoping i will wear that ring + cast friendship. What if i put Dex to 6 ? That way i can have 17 charisma. If my booklet is correct the same +0 +0 bonus applies whether you have 6 or 14 dexterity ? Is there anything else dexterity does ?? Because i dont need AC on my main and that 2 THACO difference between 6 and 18 dexterity simply isnt worth it. Soo, dex, only ranged thaco and AC or anything else ? Will someone refuse to speak to me because i am clumsy ? Maybe i wont get some shiny reward because they wont trust me not breaking it ???
ps: kinda felt bad for having a stat that low..felt like thats unrealistic....Minsc, the biggest star of BG2 has 8 INT and 6 WIS. And he IS a STANDARD of BG2. If Minsc has it, its not low.
#33
Posté 10 juillet 2012 - 05:23
ussnorway
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I’m not sure what you mean by this as I consider the role-playing path to be the early rescue of my sister because waiting a year to get around to it strikes me as somewhat sadistic... perhaps he is not as goody gumdrops as he likes to make out?
A typical GOOD run for me would be park Yoshimo then follow the plot i.e. talk to the Thieves & go looking for Valygar but get side-tracked into rescuing Mazzy from a fate worse than death. After that I could help Nalia evict the squatters or become the new sheriff in Trademeet (they both cover the bribe cost) before escorting Valygar back to open the Planar Sphere and getting court up in the Thieves/ Vamps mess... at this point you would do extra quests whilst I’m “off to save sis!” but we could both of us recollect Yoshimo before heading out?
Thieves have a skill called detect Illusions * which AFAIA is the only absolute way to deal with invisible targets... most tactics mods take advantage of spells like 'SI: Divination' to make ‘True Sight’ worthless & thieves equipped with “cloaks of non-detection” are eagerly waiting to introduce Aerie to the bittersweet trials of sodomy but having your own thief learn to detect illusions will spoil their merrymaking before it turns nasty.
* Unlike most other thief skills it doesn’t use dexterity and armour has no effect on the roll... I’ve personally found that 110 will always work regardless of the target.
p.s. “unrealistic” is an interesting way to describe character creation but selecting Minsc as an example of intelligence or Wisdom made me giggle... I suspect Boo makes the significant decisions like whether or not to cook this green meat in the bottom of his pack?
A typical GOOD run for me would be park Yoshimo then follow the plot i.e. talk to the Thieves & go looking for Valygar but get side-tracked into rescuing Mazzy from a fate worse than death. After that I could help Nalia evict the squatters or become the new sheriff in Trademeet (they both cover the bribe cost) before escorting Valygar back to open the Planar Sphere and getting court up in the Thieves/ Vamps mess... at this point you would do extra quests whilst I’m “off to save sis!” but we could both of us recollect Yoshimo before heading out?
Thieves have a skill called detect Illusions * which AFAIA is the only absolute way to deal with invisible targets... most tactics mods take advantage of spells like 'SI: Divination' to make ‘True Sight’ worthless & thieves equipped with “cloaks of non-detection” are eagerly waiting to introduce Aerie to the bittersweet trials of sodomy but having your own thief learn to detect illusions will spoil their merrymaking before it turns nasty.
* Unlike most other thief skills it doesn’t use dexterity and armour has no effect on the roll... I’ve personally found that 110 will always work regardless of the target.
p.s. “unrealistic” is an interesting way to describe character creation but selecting Minsc as an example of intelligence or Wisdom made me giggle... I suspect Boo makes the significant decisions like whether or not to cook this green meat in the bottom of his pack?
#34
Posté 10 juillet 2012 - 08:51
goblinsly1
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Well you do quite a lot of quests aswell, its like you mentioned most of them. I would probably do unseeing eye aswell and those little low level quests like temple, slavery, etc. No point in doing those quests when you are high level and those are quick, besides, at least as much as i remember ffrom my last playing, i will need levels, the way i played you cant just jump somewhere, you have to think which quests you can complete and for which you need more levels or better spells. But i dont think it would be sadistic, i am merely raising funds and stuff. Immy can hang in there, she is a strong gal.
Hmm, detect illusions. I never used this but now that you mention it, i remember mages in SCS2 using this anti spell detect combo. But did the creator of SCS2 do this on purpose or did he forgot to give mages some protection from detect illusions aswell ? Maybe this was also a kind of try to make thiefs more usefull..
Soo, keep Yoshi until you get Imoen and he will be usefull because detect illusions ? But Dang the exp he will steal. But out of roleplaying i will be more “surprised” when he betrays me.
Well i think Minsc is a great example of attributes. If he has a attributes that low, surely i can have them low aswell.
Hmm, detect illusions. I never used this but now that you mention it, i remember mages in SCS2 using this anti spell detect combo. But did the creator of SCS2 do this on purpose or did he forgot to give mages some protection from detect illusions aswell ? Maybe this was also a kind of try to make thiefs more usefull..
Soo, keep Yoshi until you get Imoen and he will be usefull because detect illusions ? But Dang the exp he will steal. But out of roleplaying i will be more “surprised” when he betrays me.
Well i think Minsc is a great example of attributes. If he has a attributes that low, surely i can have them low aswell.
#35
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 12:24
Mr Spidey
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You call Jaheira a female dog with a toxic personality. Why? Because she's attracted to a long time travel companion who offers her comfort and support her after she loses her husband? Because she doesn't break down completely after her beloved Khalid gets wasted? Well, excuse me for disagreeing with your character assessment, but I do believe you're failing to consider the setting and the occupation of those involved. Forgotten Realms is a very dangerous place and being an "adventurer" is a tremendously dangerous job, even relative to the setting.FitScotGaymer wrote...
No offense but ur a bit rude. Seriously.
Nothing I said was a definitive declaration of fact.
I was airing my opinion on Jaheira's and Aerie's personalities which prompted you to attack me. How someone feel's about their personalities is entirely subjective and thus CANNOT be "wrong" so there was absolutely no need to attack me in that way about it.
If you were disagreeing with me about specific things like if I'd made statements about how the gameplay worked and I was wrong then that would be fine but I didn't.
The closest I came to anything like that was where I told the OP what I did with Jaheira/Aerie when I played with them; again it wasn't a wide sweeping statement of fact or what the OP absolutely must do.
No I am afraid you were offended at my personal dislike of Aerie and Jaheira's personalities and decided to go after me for it.
At least that's how it looks to me because you can not refute me on any specifics because the only specifics I spoke of were my opinion on Aerie/Jaheira's characters, and what I did with them personally when i played with them and both of those things are subjective.
Oh wait sorry, I did say that I reckoned you could get better fighters, better shapeshifters, and better healers within the game in Jaheira's case and the OP would be better picking someone else. And that isn't wrong.
How many kills do you get in a typical game? A few thousand? How many humans would you roughly estimate that Charname has killed? Jaheira and Khalid are both warriors in BG1 so it makes sense that they've killed more than their fair share. That being the case, would you really expect such people to not expect death lurking behind every corner? They knew either one of them could be killed at almost any time. And then Khalid went ahead and actually got himself killed, she broke down a bit, and then something sparks between her and Charname. That's toxic to you?
And please also remember that the story probably wasn't designed tob e speed-played so the romance may well take place months after the party gets out of Irenicus' dungeon.
You say that Aerie is the most annoying NPC ever. That's an opinion, sure, but what do you base it on? A lot of her whining goes away if you end the romance and even if you allow it to continue, the whining happens to be part of her character development. How would you have her respond to suddenly being an advanturer who ends up fighting hellspawn, giant spiders, mad wizards, zombies, and vampires, and who ends up following the party leader into the Underdark and later to Hell itself? I think it's a nice touch to have at least one companion that isn't so mentally hardened that it borders on a psychosis.
You say Jaheira is fairly crap as a warrior. I say you're quite wrong about that. She's no more crap as a warrior than your average fighter/mage. She's a fighter/druid but the principles are largely the same, with the exception that Jaheira's AC isn't crap without buffs.
Can you get "better" fighters? Depending on how you define "better", yes, you might. Can you get a better tank than Jaheira between all those warrior NPCs? No, you can't. She'll out-tank Korgan, Minsc, Sarevok, Mazzy, werewolf-Cernd, or whatever else character you wish to compare her against. She's also among the better mage-killers in the game, she pwns mind flayers due to chaotic commands, and she's the only true tank that can self-heal. Her one weakness is the sucky level progression of druids, which effectively caps her druid levels to 14 until very, very late in ToB.
Finally, you're suggesting that Crom Fayer is awesome. This is something that we can evaluate mathematically. I did some rough number crunching and it clearly shows that CF is not remotely as awesome as people make it out to be, particularly not for clerics.
#36
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 12:36
Mr Spidey
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That's a choice one has to make, but please don't make the mistake of forgetting the time variable. The 19 str belt is available from the Mart right away. The 18/00 gloves are available in the Planer Sphere. The 21 str belt is available in the Underdark. The 20 str belt is available in the end-game of SoA. The 22 str belt is available some ways into ToB.CF will be asembled, right you are, enough girdles and other stuff for other NPCs ( actualy i was asking if there are enough, not claiming that there isnt... ).
Now count the potential number of characters who could use a strength booster. Your protagonist, Minsc, Jaheira, HD. Aerie + 18/00 gloves + sling of seeking is one way of boosting her between spells. Imoen + Mislead for backstabs.
With the CF, whoever wields it isn't using a shield, Belm / Kundane / Scarlet Ninja-To, or the Defender of Easthaven. It's either fabulous strength OR a useful item in the off hand. With a belt, you have great strength AND a useful item in the off hand.
But as I said, it's a choice, nothing more. Not a terrible choice that puts you back, but hardly an optimal choice that makes the game easier either.
#37
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 02:04
ScotGaymer
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Once again Mr Spidey you are having a go at me over my SUBJECTIVE OPINION. My opinion on Jaheira's and Aerie's personalities is entirely down to MY perspective and how I saw it. I see it differently from you; that does not make me wrong.
If to you it isn't a big deal that a woman goes chasing a man who may as well be a child compared to her (remember CHARNAME is still in his teens and she is much much older) before the grave of her husband is even cold is okay. Then thats fine for you.
For myself it's an appalling indictment of her personality.
Nowhere did I state or display my opinion as fact at any point.
I never said Jaheira was a crap fighter. I said you can get better fighters, better healers, than her which is true and no it does not depend on what your "definition" of better means because the functions of a figher are not subjective, the functions of a healer are no subjective. They don't change depending on perspective.
Also again my OPINION about the Crom Faeyr is my OPINION. Again nothing presented as absolute fact. Also I did not frame or present the CF as the best weapon ever; just that it was an awesome weapon and up there near the top. And if you want to speak in absolutes then I will say NOW that it IS fact that the CF is one of the "better" weapons in the game.
I used it with Aerie because I felt personally that it made her better able to defend herself and survive difficult fights. Again something that was just how I personally saw it/did it.
Disagree with me all you like - thats fine. But to attack me, and make categorical dismissive derisive absolutist statements based on what is subjective opinion is both stupid and rude. As well as completely unnecessary.
To Goblinsly1 - sorry for derailing your thread man. Didn't realise telling you how I did it in my playthru and how I felt about that would provoke such a hostile response, or devolve into an arguement.
I apologise sincerely.
If to you it isn't a big deal that a woman goes chasing a man who may as well be a child compared to her (remember CHARNAME is still in his teens and she is much much older) before the grave of her husband is even cold is okay. Then thats fine for you.
For myself it's an appalling indictment of her personality.
Nowhere did I state or display my opinion as fact at any point.
I never said Jaheira was a crap fighter. I said you can get better fighters, better healers, than her which is true and no it does not depend on what your "definition" of better means because the functions of a figher are not subjective, the functions of a healer are no subjective. They don't change depending on perspective.
Also again my OPINION about the Crom Faeyr is my OPINION. Again nothing presented as absolute fact. Also I did not frame or present the CF as the best weapon ever; just that it was an awesome weapon and up there near the top. And if you want to speak in absolutes then I will say NOW that it IS fact that the CF is one of the "better" weapons in the game.
I used it with Aerie because I felt personally that it made her better able to defend herself and survive difficult fights. Again something that was just how I personally saw it/did it.
Disagree with me all you like - thats fine. But to attack me, and make categorical dismissive derisive absolutist statements based on what is subjective opinion is both stupid and rude. As well as completely unnecessary.
To Goblinsly1 - sorry for derailing your thread man. Didn't realise telling you how I did it in my playthru and how I felt about that would provoke such a hostile response, or devolve into an arguement.
I apologise sincerely.
Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:08 .
#38
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 10:08
goblinsly1
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FitScotGaymer: Soo what you are saying is, i am going to date a MILF in bg2 ? Or since she is an elf, a GILF even ??? Well, as long as she looks that good, i dont have a problem. But when her nose falls off, i might start to complain...She jumps in the sack with main char fast i agree, her husbants grave is still warm. But on the other hand, just like Spidey said, if you play like me, a lot of time goes by....and well, maybe she is just using me to help her with the pain. Or maybe she thinks that Khalid would be happy that she is with me - she doesnt say that in game, does she ??
Mr Spidey: I am not going to use Mislead + backstab, its cheesy. Im a horrible with this cheese it seems, soon sword will be to cheesy because it harms the good old enemy. But well, i play the game the same way as i do in rl. I never cheat in college because it would bring me absolutely ZERO pleasure or happiness to pass an exam while cheating ..
I think this argument is good, no reason to apologise. You two both have a different view and probably i share some of it and differ in some. It is time of trouble and certanly no fairytale, and it is different time.....who knows, maybe it is normal that a woman moves on fast. On the other hand, Jaheira always says how strong she is - or maybe just wants to tell us that she is - soo you would expect her to be less reliant on me. Both of you have a point !
CF....its a good weapon but i have seen better. It depends on a fight and types of enemies. I will assemble it because well, it takes quite some time until i assemble it soo in the meantime i will use all other items. And once i assemble it i will be near the end of SOA. And in TOB there is enough other items. But it really depends on what kind of party you have. My main and minsc have high str as it is. Jaheira has spells, immy and aerie dont need it but have spells, Haerdalis has it high enough....maybe CF would be good because SCS2 changes some enemies AC to extremes and there 25 str could come into effect.....even though for most fights it would be better to have 6 high str chars then 1 extra high one.
Btw i can solve your dispute about Jaheira as a warrior right away. If she was only using Warrior side of her, she will get pwned by any other warrior. If she was just being a Druid or a healer if you want, she will get pwned by any other divine caster. But the reason she is that good is, she combines 2 classes in one. She is far better tank then any figher because when she wears iron skins she is immune to the first xy attacks ( btw i think SCS2 makes iron skins casting time the same as wizard skins....that would greatly improve her...to the point where i will say its cheesy ?), once skins go she has other spells aswell. But its a 2 sides sword. Because when she completely runs out of defensive spells, she is quite fragile when it comes to health compared to some of the big boys. Btw jaheira vs anomen is an old story. If you go Anomen you miss on high level abilities and that is critical for me, on the other hand you have a better cleric and also cleric not a druid. I still go for jaheira because i need a druid who can be useful and single class druid ( or cleric for that matter ) simply isnt usefull enough. And i dont need Anomen because i have aerie, like i said, i seriously want to use arcane/divine spell combos and also i want to cast divine spells with -4 speed ( robe of vecna ) and cleric and druid is certanly better then 2 druids. And if we compare personalities i will take Jaheira over anomen any time, and her quest is just awesome, soo much fighting and good items....balance.....riiiggghhtttttttt.
Is it just me or did i just save most of the disputes between you two ? Hurray for goblinsly, a goblin butcher who also excels at diplomacy !
Mr Spidey: I am not going to use Mislead + backstab, its cheesy. Im a horrible with this cheese it seems, soon sword will be to cheesy because it harms the good old enemy. But well, i play the game the same way as i do in rl. I never cheat in college because it would bring me absolutely ZERO pleasure or happiness to pass an exam while cheating ..
I think this argument is good, no reason to apologise. You two both have a different view and probably i share some of it and differ in some. It is time of trouble and certanly no fairytale, and it is different time.....who knows, maybe it is normal that a woman moves on fast. On the other hand, Jaheira always says how strong she is - or maybe just wants to tell us that she is - soo you would expect her to be less reliant on me. Both of you have a point !
CF....its a good weapon but i have seen better. It depends on a fight and types of enemies. I will assemble it because well, it takes quite some time until i assemble it soo in the meantime i will use all other items. And once i assemble it i will be near the end of SOA. And in TOB there is enough other items. But it really depends on what kind of party you have. My main and minsc have high str as it is. Jaheira has spells, immy and aerie dont need it but have spells, Haerdalis has it high enough....maybe CF would be good because SCS2 changes some enemies AC to extremes and there 25 str could come into effect.....even though for most fights it would be better to have 6 high str chars then 1 extra high one.
Btw i can solve your dispute about Jaheira as a warrior right away. If she was only using Warrior side of her, she will get pwned by any other warrior. If she was just being a Druid or a healer if you want, she will get pwned by any other divine caster. But the reason she is that good is, she combines 2 classes in one. She is far better tank then any figher because when she wears iron skins she is immune to the first xy attacks ( btw i think SCS2 makes iron skins casting time the same as wizard skins....that would greatly improve her...to the point where i will say its cheesy ?), once skins go she has other spells aswell. But its a 2 sides sword. Because when she completely runs out of defensive spells, she is quite fragile when it comes to health compared to some of the big boys. Btw jaheira vs anomen is an old story. If you go Anomen you miss on high level abilities and that is critical for me, on the other hand you have a better cleric and also cleric not a druid. I still go for jaheira because i need a druid who can be useful and single class druid ( or cleric for that matter ) simply isnt usefull enough. And i dont need Anomen because i have aerie, like i said, i seriously want to use arcane/divine spell combos and also i want to cast divine spells with -4 speed ( robe of vecna ) and cleric and druid is certanly better then 2 druids. And if we compare personalities i will take Jaheira over anomen any time, and her quest is just awesome, soo much fighting and good items....balance.....riiiggghhtttttttt.
Is it just me or did i just save most of the disputes between you two ? Hurray for goblinsly, a goblin butcher who also excels at diplomacy !
Modifié par goblinsly1, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:11 .
#39
Posté 11 juillet 2012 - 10:39
ScotGaymer
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Lol.
Maybe not quite a MILF, she is a half-elf and not quite as old as Viconia is (who is much older than even Jaheira) and would be the MILF lol.
Yeh I mean maybe that's another reason why i don't like Jaheira. In BG 1 what little interaction we have with her she comes off as a bit of a badass. No nonsense, takes no crap. But is ultimately kind hearted and good.
In BG2 she devolves into someone that makes some seriously lacking moral judgement calls, even for a good leaning "neutral" character, and I really don't feel that she is as tough or versatile in BG2 as she is in BG1.
I mean just how I felt about it - could be wrong lol.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I find that Mod NPCs are often better than Bioware's in this game. Well there are some truly horrific mod NPCs (I really don't like Saerileth or Tsujatha); there are some really awesome ones too.
Shame you don't wanna dip into them. ;-)
Maybe not quite a MILF, she is a half-elf and not quite as old as Viconia is (who is much older than even Jaheira) and would be the MILF lol.
Yeh I mean maybe that's another reason why i don't like Jaheira. In BG 1 what little interaction we have with her she comes off as a bit of a badass. No nonsense, takes no crap. But is ultimately kind hearted and good.
In BG2 she devolves into someone that makes some seriously lacking moral judgement calls, even for a good leaning "neutral" character, and I really don't feel that she is as tough or versatile in BG2 as she is in BG1.
I mean just how I felt about it - could be wrong lol.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I find that Mod NPCs are often better than Bioware's in this game. Well there are some truly horrific mod NPCs (I really don't like Saerileth or Tsujatha); there are some really awesome ones too.
Shame you don't wanna dip into them. ;-)
#40
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 09:57
goblinsly1
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I just want to say that i hate both of you, i feel like a junky that feels a fix. A BG2 fix. And this awesome debate with you two just made me want it more. But what we did was prepare almoast everything for my next play. I have NPCs picked, i have weapons roughly picked and i have profs for main char picked, i think.
Now all that is left is go through SCS2 and pick what and how to install. Not sure if i should do topic here or on G3 page.
ps: any other downside to having 6 dex then AC and ranged weapon THACO penalty ?
Now all that is left is go through SCS2 and pick what and how to install. Not sure if i should do topic here or on G3 page.
ps: any other downside to having 6 dex then AC and ranged weapon THACO penalty ?
#41
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 11:24
ScotGaymer
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Lol.
Me too I love BG. So looking forward to the Enhanced Edition. :-)
EDIT:
Also still sooooo jealous you can play SCS2.
Me too I love BG. So looking forward to the Enhanced Edition. :-)
EDIT:
Also still sooooo jealous you can play SCS2.
Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 12 juillet 2012 - 11:25 .
#42
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 02:30
goblinsly1
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Well look at it this way. You can play SCS2 aswell, if you cant, you need more training which is fun. Me i plan to pick probably the absolute hardest possible options in SCS2 ( A few i can think of, full prebuffed spellcasters - it would kind of suck to just come and kill the mage before he can cast any spell, high level abilities on mages even in SOA - if i can have them, why not them aswell ? , more health for enemies - but not for NPCs and my main char, hardest demons, NWN style health on level up, no cheating with full health, last SOA fight will be first 1 round of jonbon with his allies: Super dragon, Super beholder, Super sword, Super Serevok and Super him, what i am thinking is whether to include their allies aswell, this means jon is acompanied by a lich, supersword with morkadens swords, super beholder with lesser beholders...i think it would be fun because those lesser thingys die fast, what i am worried about is the battle that follows, irenicus and 4 demons, i know i can save after each phase - **** you tactics for even thinking about not including save option in 3 phase fight, how unfair and frustrating...but will i have enough time to heal, cast wish for rememorised spells, etc. )
But at least you can play it. I wont have time to play it for another year probably and even then i wont be able to play it unless doctor solves my back pain....
But at least you can play it. I wont have time to play it for another year probably and even then i wont be able to play it unless doctor solves my back pain....
#43
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 08:29
Mr Spidey
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I haven't had a go at you at any time, Scot. Believe me, you'd notice if I was having a go at you, but the rules of this forum explicitly ban that sort of thing, and so I'm simply telling you why your opinions are terrible, if not outright wrong. By the way, you just called me stupid. I suppose that's polite where you're from. Notice how I'm not bothering to return the insult. That's me being rude, I suppose.FitScotGaymer wrote...
Once again Mr Spidey you are having a go at me over my SUBJECTIVE OPINION. My opinion on Jaheira's and Aerie's personalities is entirely down to MY perspective and how I saw it. I see it differently from you; that does not make me wrong.
If to you it isn't a big deal that a woman goes chasing a man who may as well be a child compared to her (remember CHARNAME is still in his teens and she is much much older) before the grave of her husband is even cold is okay. Then thats fine for you.
For myself it's an appalling indictment of her personality.
Nowhere did I state or display my opinion as fact at any point.
I never said Jaheira was a crap fighter. I said you can get better fighters, better healers, than her which is true and no it does not depend on what your "definition" of better means because the functions of a figher are not subjective, the functions of a healer are no subjective. They don't change depending on perspective.
Also again my OPINION about the Crom Faeyr is my OPINION. Again nothing presented as absolute fact. Also I did not frame or present the CF as the best weapon ever; just that it was an awesome weapon and up there near the top. And if you want to speak in absolutes then I will say NOW that it IS fact that the CF is one of the "better" weapons in the game.
I used it with Aerie because I felt personally that it made her better able to defend herself and survive difficult fights. Again something that was just how I personally saw it/did it.
Disagree with me all you like - thats fine. But to attack me, and make categorical dismissive derisive absolutist statements based on what is subjective opinion is both stupid and rude. As well as completely unnecessary.
Useless banter aside, you're saying Jaheira is chasing a teenager before her husband's corpse is cold. I'm not sure this is remotely accurate. I honestly don't recall any dialogue in either game that specifies the actual age of Charname. Do you? Are people everywhere calling him or her "kid"? Could a teenager become lord over de'Arnise Keep or make a claim for the Sphere against the Cowled fellas? Consider if the paper doll looks teenage? Consider whether the other bhaalspawn you meet look all that young?
Nah. Early to mid twenties, I'd say. Young but not criminally so. And do remember that both Aerie and Viconia are both pure elves and may well be hundreds of years old, and they're also digging the supposed teenage Charname so if that in itself makes Jaheira a nasty person then surely it also applies to the other romance options.
As for the speed with which she gets over Khalid, it may well be hours of play-time but in the game world we're talking potentially weeks or even months before the romance gets going. In a game I've got going, we're well through the Underdark and she's still being shy and akward. Combine that with the setting and there's nothing "hasty" or "easy" about the romance.
Sure, you can write the above down as a difference of opinion, but that's a load of crap and you damn well know it. You're getting to the conclusion that Jaheira is a female dog with a toxic personality. I'm challenging that assessment and rather than defending it, you're simply playing the "it's just MY opinion!!!" card, much like an adult male Justin Bieber fan.
As for there being better fighters in the game, feel free to name any fighter in the game that can actually tank better than Jaheira. Korgan has a small advantage against demiliches and vampires while Jaheira has him soundly beaten against just about anything else. She gets all the same warrior HLAs he'll get, she gets fairly solid summons, she gets heal, harm, sanctuary, ironskins, and of course the insect spells. And nature's beauty. She needs a strength buff and her weapon selection is a bit limited but a really nice troll-killing club +3 is just a dead rakshasa away and the best off hand weapon in the game is even closer.
The reason you think there are better fighters is because you don't use her as a spellsword. You just put a suit of armor on her, give her a shield, and expect her to be a pure fighter, which she definitely isn't. Fighter/mages are utterly broken and yet they would suck too, if you played them like that. Jaheira has immense potential and easily blow pure fighters out of the water once you take the time to put her spells to use. And no, this awesomeness isn't subjective. It's not an opinion. It's an undeniable fact that necessarily follows from the game mechanics.
Regarding your Hammer of Awesomeness opinion, it suffers from the same problem. The hammer may feel awesome but once you do the math and crunch the numbers, it really isn't all that awesome after all. It's like using alcohol as an exam booster. I'm sure it feels awesome at the time but once you evaluate the results, the results won't support what you felt. That's just how things are.
Crom Fayer is a warhammer +3 that gives 25 strength. If the gap between 25 and 21 was bigger then CF would be awesome for non-clerics, but the gap is not that big. If there were a ton of other great girdles that you'd potentially wish to use instead of a strength girdle while good off hand items were in really short supply, CF would be a whole lot better, but this is not the case. The belt slot is really cheap and there's a ton of stuff you might wish to use off hand.
Consequently it's not a good deal to move your strength booster from your belt to your off hand, the +5 damage you gain from it is barely enough to make up for losing all those potential nifty abilities that off hand items might give you, and you sure don't gain flexibility from making that trade.
Final thing, you felt it made Aerie survive better? First, there's a mace that grants 18/00 strength. I think it's called Mauler's Arm or something like that. Available at the Coronet once you kick out the slavers, IIRC. Gives her all the strength needed for heavy armor. Second, there's a level 1 priest spell called Sanctuary. Besides Remove Fear and Doom, what exactly are you going to do with all those slots? Third, did you consider how much giving her Crom Fayer weakened whatever party members that now can't use the gauntlets or the belt? Four, have you considered that a level 12 cleric can get to 25 strength just by equipping the 21 strength belt and casting Draw Upon Holy Might?
Did this cover everything you said? I believe it did. Did you notice that you did not use math to explain to me why you think Crom Faeyr is awesome or helps a cleric stay alive or why Jaheira isn't the most awesome fighter ever? Why is that?
Final thing I'd like to stress with respect to our discussion. When you post a comment, you're throwing it out in international waters where anyone and everyone can take shots at it. If you don't want people to respond to what you're saying then posting on public forums isn't a stellar idea. You called Jaheira a female dog and Aerie the most annoying whiny character ever. I disagree with both claims. In fact I find them to be quite ridiculous. Why shouldn't I comment?
Now, you're quite right that this is getting to the point where it has nothing to do with Goblinsky's topic. Fortunately I've said jsut about all that I think has to be said. If you wish to have the last word then feel free, but for Baervan's sake, make it matter. Make it about the arguments rather than about how hurt you are that I don't give your opinions credit for just being opinions and how I'm rude and how you just don't like this or that and don't feel like I do. Please.
#44
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 08:40
Mr Spidey
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@ Goblinsly
But don't feel like you're the only one who can't play. I'm dying to take a dwarven fighter/thief (because they're awesome), a gnomish cleric/mage (because 20 int and 21 wisdom makes them braniacs of DEATH!!), a dwarven barbarian (makes Korgan look wimpy), a ranger / cleric (never actually tried one), and a tweakpack shapeshifter (will be hilarious in BG1) through the game, Tutu to ToB, and all I've got time for is half an hour here and there.
Always happy to be of service. :-)I just want to say that i hate both of you, i feel like a junky that feels a fix. A BG2 fix.
That's a right bummer. :-(But at least you can play it. I wont have time to play it for another year probably and even then i wont be able to play it unless doctor solves my back pain....
But don't feel like you're the only one who can't play. I'm dying to take a dwarven fighter/thief (because they're awesome), a gnomish cleric/mage (because 20 int and 21 wisdom makes them braniacs of DEATH!!), a dwarven barbarian (makes Korgan look wimpy), a ranger / cleric (never actually tried one), and a tweakpack shapeshifter (will be hilarious in BG1) through the game, Tutu to ToB, and all I've got time for is half an hour here and there.
#45
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 10:39
goblinsly1
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Its supposed to say i feel like a junky that needs a fix, not feels a fix xD. If i felt a fix i would be playing bg2 already xD.
***** She needs a strength buff and her weapon selection is a bit limited but a really nice troll-killing club +3 is just a dead rakshasa away and the best off hand weapon in the game is even closer. *****
Which Club are we talking about and which offhand weapon ? If we are talking about scimitriar with extra attack, we sure would need to think about it. You said CF gives 5 extra damage. But with many attacks a character like minsc has....during hard battles with g.whirlwind or impr.haste, 10 attacks is not out of the question, thats 50 extra damage per round - not much when u look at it this way...Extra attack is great for chars that usualy dont have that many attacks. Jaheira with 2 normal weapons never has more then 2 or 3 attacks right ? Is it 2 or 3 ? In either case with that scimitriar that is extra 1/2 or 1/3 attack and when using impr.haste that means 6 or attacks vs 4 or 6.
Hmm, soo its settled. CF will be assembled because like i said, str wont be a problem here and in rare cases i might need CF.......oh what the hell who am i kidding, i just want it assembled, its part of BG2 ritual for me. And for Haerdalis and Jaheira, extra attack offhand weapon will do. Btw, this extra attack, does this mean extra attack with main weapon or with offhand weapon ? That would make a HUGE difference since that offhand scimitriar is crap otherwise.
Btw you both make a good point and let me make an even better point. How awesome is BG2 soo that 3 adult males talk and actualy argue about fictional characters and their personalities ? I mean, seriously this game is a standard for perfection, when i am talking about Minsc i talk like he really exists.....just stop and think about it for a second you two...And when you are done, answer me the questions about attributes hehe, dex 6, will do ?
ps: dont forget, Harm does fixed damage in SCS2 instead of puting enemy to 1 HP. Soo no more quick disposal of Yaga Shura in last battle.
***** She needs a strength buff and her weapon selection is a bit limited but a really nice troll-killing club +3 is just a dead rakshasa away and the best off hand weapon in the game is even closer. *****
Which Club are we talking about and which offhand weapon ? If we are talking about scimitriar with extra attack, we sure would need to think about it. You said CF gives 5 extra damage. But with many attacks a character like minsc has....during hard battles with g.whirlwind or impr.haste, 10 attacks is not out of the question, thats 50 extra damage per round - not much when u look at it this way...Extra attack is great for chars that usualy dont have that many attacks. Jaheira with 2 normal weapons never has more then 2 or 3 attacks right ? Is it 2 or 3 ? In either case with that scimitriar that is extra 1/2 or 1/3 attack and when using impr.haste that means 6 or attacks vs 4 or 6.
Hmm, soo its settled. CF will be assembled because like i said, str wont be a problem here and in rare cases i might need CF.......oh what the hell who am i kidding, i just want it assembled, its part of BG2 ritual for me. And for Haerdalis and Jaheira, extra attack offhand weapon will do. Btw, this extra attack, does this mean extra attack with main weapon or with offhand weapon ? That would make a HUGE difference since that offhand scimitriar is crap otherwise.
Btw you both make a good point and let me make an even better point. How awesome is BG2 soo that 3 adult males talk and actualy argue about fictional characters and their personalities ? I mean, seriously this game is a standard for perfection, when i am talking about Minsc i talk like he really exists.....just stop and think about it for a second you two...And when you are done, answer me the questions about attributes hehe, dex 6, will do ?
ps: dont forget, Harm does fixed damage in SCS2 instead of puting enemy to 1 HP. Soo no more quick disposal of Yaga Shura in last battle.
#46
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 01:24
ussnorway
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Eg. Haerdalis gets one (main) attack normally or two if you put a weapon in his Off-hand (1main + 1 off-hand)... at level 24 he takes UaI then equips “Scarlet Ninja-To +3” for 3 total attacks = 2 main hand +1 off-hand.
Dexterity covers most thief skills (as well as range and armour) but for you it would only make getting past traps without setting them off a bit harder... a high Dex character can sometimes walk through a ‘Skull Trap’ without triggering it off.
On the subject of off-hand weapons I notice that your Berk-mage will equip Katanas... I assume you intend to enter melee combat so were you considering the merits of “Dak'kon's Zerth Blade”?
Q. would the extra four spell slots be attractive to you considering that J will (assuming again) claim the “Belm +2” or is the +1 armour insufficient... perhaps for Haerdalis instead or does the fact that removing it for any reason, requires a rest to reset the spells dampen your desire?
Dexterity covers most thief skills (as well as range and armour) but for you it would only make getting past traps without setting them off a bit harder... a high Dex character can sometimes walk through a ‘Skull Trap’ without triggering it off.
On the subject of off-hand weapons I notice that your Berk-mage will equip Katanas... I assume you intend to enter melee combat so were you considering the merits of “Dak'kon's Zerth Blade”?
Q. would the extra four spell slots be attractive to you considering that J will (assuming again) claim the “Belm +2” or is the +1 armour insufficient... perhaps for Haerdalis instead or does the fact that removing it for any reason, requires a rest to reset the spells dampen your desire?
#47
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 03:45
Mr Spidey
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@ Goblinsly
The weapons I'm thinking about are Blackblood +3, which does 1d6 +3 normal damage +3 stoneskin-piercing, troll-killing acid damage, and of course Belm +2, which is available fairly close to the rakshasa you need to kill, in order to make the genies at Trademeet bugger off, which in turn allows you to buy from the merchants. That's where you'll find Blackblood.
Regarding the CF, it can be an advantage if you're mostly using greater whirlwind as your HLA of choice. GWW sets attacks per round to 10, meaning 8 main hand and two off hand. That's really good with 25 strength. Unfortunately Critical Strike combined with Improved Haste and Belm off hand is often even better.
Critical Strike makes every attack roll a natural 20. Critical hits do double damage. A dual wielding warrior with Belm or Kundane off hand and specialization in his main hand weapon will do 4.5 attacks per round base, adding up to 9 under Improved Haste. Two are off hand, seven are main hand. Each attack will generally do roughly five less damage than if you'd had the CF.
Critical Strike will make all these attacks do double damage so effectively we're talking about doing damage in the range of 14 main hand attacks and 4 off hand attacks in a single round. This can't be done with CF.
With CF, you'll have 1 off hand attack and 2.5 main hand attack base, adding up to seven APR under IH. That's two main hand attacks less than with Belm and if you use GWW to make up for this then the alternative uses Crit Strike and still comes out way ahead. Anyways, this is just a very quick sketch of the math involved. I'll try to find the time to work it out in detail later today.
I don't have too much time right now but hopefully I'll be able to elaborate further in about 12 hours or so.Which Club are we talking about and which offhand weapon ? If we are talking about scimitriar with extra attack, we sure would need to think about it. You said CF gives 5 extra damage. But with many attacks a character like minsc has....during hard battles with g.whirlwind or impr.haste, 10 attacks is not out of the question, thats 50 extra damage per round - not much when u look at it this way...Extra attack is great for chars that usualy dont have that many attacks. Jaheira with 2 normal weapons never has more then 2 or 3 attacks right ? Is it 2 or 3 ? In either case with that scimitriar that is extra 1/2 or 1/3 attack and when using impr.haste that means 6 or attacks vs 4 or 6.
The weapons I'm thinking about are Blackblood +3, which does 1d6 +3 normal damage +3 stoneskin-piercing, troll-killing acid damage, and of course Belm +2, which is available fairly close to the rakshasa you need to kill, in order to make the genies at Trademeet bugger off, which in turn allows you to buy from the merchants. That's where you'll find Blackblood.
Regarding the CF, it can be an advantage if you're mostly using greater whirlwind as your HLA of choice. GWW sets attacks per round to 10, meaning 8 main hand and two off hand. That's really good with 25 strength. Unfortunately Critical Strike combined with Improved Haste and Belm off hand is often even better.
Critical Strike makes every attack roll a natural 20. Critical hits do double damage. A dual wielding warrior with Belm or Kundane off hand and specialization in his main hand weapon will do 4.5 attacks per round base, adding up to 9 under Improved Haste. Two are off hand, seven are main hand. Each attack will generally do roughly five less damage than if you'd had the CF.
Critical Strike will make all these attacks do double damage so effectively we're talking about doing damage in the range of 14 main hand attacks and 4 off hand attacks in a single round. This can't be done with CF.
With CF, you'll have 1 off hand attack and 2.5 main hand attack base, adding up to seven APR under IH. That's two main hand attacks less than with Belm and if you use GWW to make up for this then the alternative uses Crit Strike and still comes out way ahead. Anyways, this is just a very quick sketch of the math involved. I'll try to find the time to work it out in detail later today.
#48
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 04:03
Shadow_Leech07
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I don't think Jaheira is as awesome as you make her seem though I really don't blame you for thinking so. She's just very solid and I definitely wouldn't discount her in any given party. But really it all comes down to preferences. Actually all of the bioware NPCs are solid additions to any party. Only Edwin and Aerie really standout power-wise. None of them are bad inherently to a party because the party itself can cover any weaknesses.Mr Spidey wrote...
The reason you think there are better fighters is because you don't use her as a spellsword. You just put a suit of armor on her, give her a shield, and expect her to be a pure fighter, which she definitely isn't. Fighter/mages are utterly broken and yet they would suck too, if you played them like that. Jaheira has immense potential and easily blow pure fighters out of the water once you take the time to put her spells to use. And no, this awesomeness isn't subjective. It's not an opinion. It's an undeniable fact that necessarily follows from the game mechanics.
If I would have to pick an 'auto-include' in a party it would be someone like a Yoshimo or Jan(or Imoen)....anyone with a respectable amount of "Find/Detect Trap" skill because it makes the game run more smoothly without having to nitpick and remember what damage/spell a certain trap does. Though eventually if you play the game more then enough you're going to memorize even that.
Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 13 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .
#49
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 08:47
goblinsly1
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Interesting thing with Crit Strike and Belm....well even more reason to take CF...when i stumble on an enemy imune to that combo, i can use CF and Whirlwind. That way i am always prepared.
Dak'kon's Zerth Blade - never really found it that good, extra spells is all it does and since its low level spells which i get plenty of anyway, dont really see it as a good weapon..but will prolly use it until i get something better.
Dak'kon's Zerth Blade - never really found it that good, extra spells is all it does and since its low level spells which i get plenty of anyway, dont really see it as a good weapon..but will prolly use it until i get something better.
#50
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 12:15
Shadow_Leech07
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Why not just use CF+Belm and then Improve Haste+Critical Strike? You get the damage bonus and the extra attack all in one.goblinsly1 wrote...
Interesting thing with Crit Strike and Belm....well even more reason to take CF...when i stumble on an enemy imune to that combo, i can use CF and Whirlwind. That way i am always prepared.
