676 réponses à ce sujet

[BerzerkGene]

Redbelle wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

A good idea. Another one is to use these:
The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten
suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The
molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of
light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with
enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire
reliably every five seconds.
The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on
most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance
military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.

Unfortunately there is only one scene where the Thanix is used, by the normandy, against the occuli fighters.

From what I saw those canons were widely used in the headon rush to meet the enemy. And why not...... In air to air engagements the intial rush to meet the opponent gives the best opportunity to kill them as you both close on each other, and the first one to shy away just gives the other the chance to shoot at them some more.......... unless their evading missles. I'm getting away from what I wanted to ask here.

My question...... is the Alliance Thanix canon a long range weapon? I ask as I can't remember seeing any Thanix's going off in the middle of the engagement.

Unfortunately there is only one scene where the Thanix is used, by the normandy, against the occuli fighters. Remember the fight between the collector cruiser and the normandy? Its basically a sustained beam, as least visually. Those shots are missles, as Thanix can punch through any known barrier or armour, that includes reapers. Its why turning their own tech against them is a good idea.

Its a mid range weapon at best maybe slightly longer against large targets. It should have similar, or slightly less range than reaper beams. Technically as soon as the first reaper fires it should have been met with a slew of Thanix shots. Which would have been way more impressive too.

LiarasShield wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

You know those drones served the collectors right and their gone....

Were those drones called Oculas? Or something like that.

Anyway,
the Oc's were part of the Collector arsenal, however I also saw them or
something very similar in the intial fleet engagment over Earth. An
Alliance fighter shot one down.

Yes but I think
they had the strong ones with the collectors those ones with the reapers
seem very small or weak in comparison

Collector drones and occuli are still around, the miracle at palaven email says that the swarms are still about, nothing about the actual collectors though. The Occuli seem to be standard fight class ships. They don't do well against spaceship grade weaponry, the Normandy blew up half the ones around the Col base with conventional weaponry. One managed to launch itself inside though.

[o Ventus]

Redbelle wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The collectors are not gone, you wiped out one base. Why would you assume that single base was entire collector arsenal and only location in entire universe they are present? Not only that why would you assume the Reapers would not have every single technology the collectors invented?

The Collectors only attacked us with one ship. We saw their general die. I think its a good assumption.

They only needed to send out one ship to do that job. Does not mean they do not have more. You saw one of their generals die, the only one you met. Does not mean there are not more of them.

They had 3 ships. Shepard destroyed one, James destroyed another. The third is sent to fight at Palaven (See secondary codex) and I would guess is destroyed as well.

3 ships? Could you point me towad those codex entries? I didn't know they had 3.

Shepard destroyed one in ME2 (obviously). James tells you how he fought the Collectors and destroyed another of their ships. The secondary codex entry ("Miracle at Palaven", I believe) makes mention of how the Reapers sent Collectors after the turians and krogan when the tide began to turn. It doesn't explcitly say they arrived via a ship, but how else would they get there?

Modifié par o Ventus, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:04 .

[BerzerkGene]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

Modifié par BerzerkGene, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .

[Redbelle]

A point about the Thanix in relation to taking down a collector ship and taking down a Reaper ship. Don't the Mass Effect cores determine how much defence the respective ships can generate? The Reapers are pretty much death on legs shaped like a cuttle fish while the Collector ship seemed to be a a large hollowed out asteroid with guns and engines strapped on that worked as a Mass Transporter.

Would the collector ship, not having a conventional hull, impact negatively on the Mass Effect field's defence performance?

Also, those drone oculas thingees mentioned above? Took one out with a 3 man squad in ME2. They may pack a punch in a pack against a corvette like Normandy (I think that's the class of ship), but a destroyer with Point Defence Turrets would make mince meat of them.

Modifié par Redbelle, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:07 .

[o Ventus]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

To be fair, you can see some dogfights between Occuli and Alliance fighters during the intro Earth mission at the beginning of the game.

[savionen]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

The Alliance also has missiles. If they decided not to HerpDerp Crucible they could have used cluster missiles on Occuli. Yeah, the Occuli are strong, but they have absolutely no defenses whatsoever

[Dragoonlordz]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

What you see does not equal what they have. You saw with own eyes all the fleets you assembled at Earth by end of discussions with AI had almost all been wiped out yet this does not stop you creating mere theories that could of won based on what never saw. They are also not weak they are far more maneuverable than alliance and council ships. It is easier to take one out when closing in on it from range due to the nature of it coming at you in direct line but when in close combat they are vaslty more maneuverable than your ships. They can also be mass produced faster than you can make ships and they have no crew requirement.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:08 .

[fatmancory]

Holy **** Is this even A debate? Its like cave men going up against tanks.

[o Ventus]

savionen wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

The Alliance also has missiles. If they decided not to HerpDerp Crucible they could have used cluster missiles on Occuli. Yeah, the Occuli are strong, but they have absolutely no defenses whatsoever

Screw missiles, we have GARDIAN lasers. They can't miss, and the shot connects instantaneously and ignores kinetic barriers. A bit more effective than missiles.

[savionen]

o Ventus wrote...

savionen wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

The Alliance also has missiles. If they decided not to HerpDerp Crucible they could have used cluster missiles on Occuli. Yeah, the Occuli are strong, but they have absolutely no defenses whatsoever

Screw missiles, we have GARDIAN lasers. They can't miss, and the shot connects instantaneously and ignores kinetic barriers. A bit more effective than missiles.

That too. It's odd that there's so much technology on these ships and that Alliance ships are apparently extremely evasive and good at maneuvering and all you see is them rolling over and dying.

[Klijpope]

Eluril wrote...

I've said before and will say it again: people wanting a straight conventional victory are like those that want the Elf, Dwarf, and Human armies in Lord of the Rings to storm the black gate and have Aragorn behead Sauron in a one on one duel. <snip>

A good analogy.

The reapers = Sauron and the Nazgul
The Normandy crew et al = The Fellowship
The Crucible = The One Ring
The Citadel = Mount Doom (and Minas tirith, rolled into one 
The Illusive Man = Saruman, or Gollum (which makes me chuckle)...

Destroy = destroy the Ring
Control = use the Ring, replace Sauron
Synthesis = Frodo marries Sauron?

[Kamfrenchie]

fatmancory wrote...

Holy **** Is this even A debate? Its like cave men going up against tanks.

no, T34 vs Tigers.

Fixed

cavemen can't kill Tigers
T34 can

[Redbelle]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All they have to do is release a million of those drones from ME2. You lose all tactics. You get wiped out. The End.

Those things are weak as ******.
Fighters normal weapons can take them out. I also doubt they even have a million. You never see them before the end battle.

What you see does not equal what they have. You saw with own eyes all the fleets you assembled at Earth by end of discussions with AI had almost all been wiped out yet this does not stop you creating mere theories that could of won based on what never saw. They are also not weak they are far more maneuverable than alliance and council ships. It is easier to take one out when closing in on it from range due to the nature of it coming at you in direct line but when in close combat they are vaslty more maneuverable than your ships. They can also be mass produced faster than you can make ships and they have no crew requirement.

I think the problem is we have never really seen how ME3's modern fleet can compare to the Reapers. There are to many variables to make a judgement and what we do know, or think we know, doesn't paint a focused picture. We know the Reapers are a more powerful force. But we also know that no cycle that we know of brought the weight of the galaxy to bear on them. It's a situation that has not arisen before so neither the Reapers or the Aliiance can accurately predict the outcome........ Ok the Alliance predicts it's going to get whooped and badly. But from the cutscenes I remember seeing Reapers being broken apart by sustained fire while another Reaper takes a bite out of a cruiser. It's the Reaper going down that is key though....... if the Reapers are unstoppable, utterly unstoppable, then that should not have happened and there in lies the debate.

Also, if the Reapers are going to lose X number of Reapers and only get humanities 1 in exchange, then it leads to the question of, just how unstoppable are the Reapers if they are now being weakened in each cycle.

[fatmancory]

So does anyone have numbers on who many Dreadnoughts the alliance has? I remember reading in the codex that it takes 4 dreadnoughts on one big reaper to win (three to take out the shields, the other to finish it) So if someone wants to prove the possibility of us winning conventionally, they'd have to prove we outnumbered them 4 to one in Juggernauts, and probably other ships as well.

[Kamfrenchie]

Klijpope wrote...

Eluril wrote...

I've said before and will say it again: people wanting a straight conventional victory are like those that want the Elf, Dwarf, and Human armies in Lord of the Rings to storm the black gate and have Aragorn behead Sauron in a one on one duel. <snip>

A good analogy.

The reapers = Sauron and the Nazgul
The Normandy crew et al = The Fellowship
The Crucible = The One Ring
The Citadel = Mount Doom (and Minas tirith, rolled into one 
The Illusive Man = Saruman, or Gollum (which makes me chuckle)...

Destroy = destroy the Ring
Control = use the Ring, replace Sauron
Synthesis = Frodo marries Sauron?

very bad analogy. The ring was forged by Saron himself, and if he regains it he will become nigh invincible, an destroying it will kil him.
The crucible only works fr the good guys, is introduced a the end of the trilogy.


Besides, Isildur pwned Sauron with a broken sword

Modifié par Kamfrenchie, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[Kamfrenchie]

fatmancory wrote...

So does anyone have numbers on who many Dreadnoughts the alliance has? I remember reading in the codex that it takes 4 dreadnoughts on one big reaper to win (three to take out the shields, the other to finish it) So if someone wants to prove the possibility of us winning conventionally, they'd have to prove we outnumbered them 4 to one in Juggernauts, and probably other ships as well.

No, that's bad logic. It doesn't mean frigate can't win  against a reaper with beter numbers.

If it takes 2 pershing to take out a tiger, you can poduce a load of cheaper wolverines TD instead

[savionen]

fatmancory wrote...

So does anyone have numbers on who many Dreadnoughts the alliance has? I remember reading in the codex that it takes 4 dreadnoughts on one big reaper to win (three to take out the shields, the other to finish it) So if someone wants to prove the possibility of us winning conventionally, they'd have to prove we outnumbered them 4 to one in Juggernauts, and probably other ships as well.

There's something like 100 total, but, it also doesn't include anything that's been built lately. The whole dreadnaught vs capital ship argument honestly bugs me, too, because small Alliance ships are supposed to be more maneuverable than Reapers, i.e. hard to hit and even small ships can have Thanix cannons. It's not like cruisers and frigates can't take out Reapers. Technically the Normandy is just an awesome frigate.

The Salarians don't have many dreadnaughts (not sure if they actually have any) but they have hundreds or thousands of frigates and cruisers with stealth and thanix cannons.

Modifié par savionen, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[moater boat]

fatmancory wrote...

So does anyone have numbers on who many Dreadnoughts the alliance has? I remember reading in the codex that it takes 4 dreadnoughts on one big reaper to win (three to take out the shields, the other to finish it) So if someone wants to prove the possibility of us winning conventionally, they'd have to prove we outnumbered them 4 to one in Juggernauts, and probably other ships as well.

This is false. Numbers of capital ships are only part of equation.

[humes spork]

moater boat wrote...

You have absolutely no idea how long it would take to upgrade a ship with, for example, a thannix cannon. Spacecraft are not like navy ships that need a drydock and a shipyard for major overhauls, the can literally just park anywhere and get to work. This is supported by the fact that most alliance ships HAVE been upgraded with thannix cannons.

...in the context of ME, Alliance naval doctrine is to keep its fleets centralized at stations that serve as command centers and repair/refit/resupply depots, such as Arcturus, for the purpose of rapid response against military threats. The Alliance is also the race that, as you admit, enjoys the highest benefit of improved weapon tech as of the Reaper War.

I can't imagine there's any correlation between those two facts, or why that might be.

Which, as a brief sidenote, it only took a dozen Reapers to attack and destroy Arcturus station and force Alliance naval forces stationed there into a full retreat. The Alliance had three of its eight fleets, 37.5% of its total naval might, stationed at Arcturus. One of those fleets was sacrificed in its entirety just to screen the retreat of the other two.

A dozen Reapers decisively won over the single greatest concentration of Alliance military strength in the galaxy. There are thousands of those things in total, bare damn minimum.

Modifié par humes spork, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:27 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

Since you're like alone up in the sky with the AI...VI...whatever that is controlling the Reapers, I'd suggest that a conventional victory would be pretty simple. Take the thing out with your magic, endless bullet gun and then while the Reapers are floating around going "Error: 0101010101" shoot them.

Heck, considering the fact that the Catalyst speaks in Harbinger's voice, it's likely we were speaking with the Catalyst the whole time and the Reapers have no true "mind" of their own. So, take out the brain...the rest is time consuming but not impossible.

[Redbelle]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

Klijpope wrote...

A good analogy.

The reapers = Sauron and the Nazgul
The Normandy crew et al = The Fellowship
The Crucible = The One Ring
The Citadel = Mount Doom (and Minas tirith, rolled into one 
The Illusive Man = Saruman, or Gollum (which makes me chuckle)...

Destroy = destroy the Ring
Control = use the Ring, replace Sauron
Synthesis = Frodo marries Sauron?

very bad analogy. The ring was forged by Saron himself, and if he regains it he will become nigh invincible, an destroying it will kil him.
The crucible only works fr the good guys, is introduced a the end of the story.


Besides, Isildur pwned Sauron with a broen sword

First, Frodo and Sauron........ Ewwwwwww!!! That armour........the friction burns <shudders>

Also, Isildur beat Sauron, but was then broken by Saurons rings influence.

It's the Reaper influence throughout the 50k yrs of relays and citadel that can be attributed to their influence...... well that and Indoc.

Not sure how much longer this LotR analogy can go on for unless it's gets some structure.

[moater boat]

savionen wrote...

fatmancory wrote...

So does anyone have numbers on who many Dreadnoughts the alliance has? I remember reading in the codex that it takes 4 dreadnoughts on one big reaper to win (three to take out the shields, the other to finish it) So if someone wants to prove the possibility of us winning conventionally, they'd have to prove we outnumbered them 4 to one in Juggernauts, and probably other ships as well.

There's something like 100 total, but, it also doesn't include anything that's been built lately. The whole dreadnaught vs capital ship argument honestly bugs me, too, because small Alliance ships are supposed to be more maneuverable than Reapers, i.e. hard to hit and even small ships can have Thanix cannons. It's not like cruisers and frigates can't take out Reapers. Technically the Normandy is just an awesome frigate.

The Salarians don't have many dreadnaughts (not sure if they actually have any) but they have hundreds or thousands of frigates and cruisers with stealth and thanix cannons.

The salarians have 16 dreadnaughts. The even have some stealth dreadnaughts.

[fatmancory]

Kamfrenchie wrote...


No, that's bad logic. It doesn't mean frigate can't win  against a reaper with beter numbers.

If it takes 2 pershing to take out a tiger, you can poduce a load of cheaper wolverines TD instead

Its a start though, If can prove the allanice has the numbers fitting the description then you can atleast say its possible, once thats been applied you can start going into futher details.

[Rhayak]

The war with the Reapers is like the war with the Covenant in Halo.

Our ground forces can give them hell, but they totally spank us in space.

The final fleet is thousands of ship, and since the Reapers "consolidated" around earth, i guess there's thousands of them there (they are thousands anyway). So, as much as that bugs me, a conventional victory is not possible.
Yeah the initial phases of battle play out nice if you have enough EMS, but on the long run the Reapers are just too many and powerful.

[Jadebaby]

Because the RGB endings suck. I'd say.