158 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

krukow wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...

krukow wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...

luzburg wrote...

well hes right about the crusible but as he said make up our own imagination about it

He is saying, the Crucible and Catalyst were contrived, not Dervied from the plot. So the plot legitimacy is questionalble. As a result, any imagination given to the the story is just as legit and original as the original plot....

Its hard to put in words what he said.. He seems like he is good with words..

The catalyst maybe (though there was always a strong possibility of there being "something" behind the reapers), but the crucible is the point of the first mission after you get off Earth.  It's introduced to the game before Garrus is.

Yeah. And how was Crucible introduced?? In Mars archives. Just when Reapers come knocking, u get the plans for doomsday device, gift wrapped by Protheans.
Wasn't it too convenient of a plot point that the formula to destroy Reapers was in Mars archives??? And the reasons why we did not find it earlier, is yet another cheesy line. Process of elimination??

Ass pull if u ask me..

Also, Read my Signature!!!

For starters, a deus ex machina is something new introduced at the end to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem.  The catalyst is introduced early in the game.  It's not a deus ex machina.  It's a McGuffin.  It's the thing you're planning to use to beat the reapers for the whole game. 

And they somewhat explained that.  The alliance had those archives for decades, but hadn't done much with them (a doomsday device to destroy the reapers isn't very useful if you don't believe in reapers).  It's flimsy, but most epic sagas center around a series of unlikely events (droids carrying the plans for the death star just happen to land near and be bought by Darth Vader's son.  How convienant...). 

If you don't like the story they wrote, that's fine, but it was their story to write.  You wanted a conventional war and you didn't get it.  I did too.  However, with the ec, what we got was pretty much coherant.  You're just looking for reasons to complain now.

The catalyst (star kid) is not introduced until the very end of the game and is most certainly a DEM, a literal god from the machine.

[iAFKinMassEffect3]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Mythx88 wrote...



Unlike Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns who gave the EC a thumbs up, this gives a clearer view on what the EC accomplished. The whole thing at 1:45 is what I am refering to.

"Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns disagree with me so they're stupid, this guy still does so he's THE BEST PERSON EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!11!!one!one!11!"

Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns(maybe not) didn't say all is forgiven this totally made this game ok.
They just highlighted things that EC did fix and this guy just gave a more in depth view of the bigger picture.
It's not that they don't agree they all say in their own words that they did a good job of polishing a turd.

[Bill Casey]

The changed variables are organics resourcefulness and adaptability in the face of insurmountable odds...
When they successfully constructed and hooked up the Crucible, they changed the equation...

I thought that was pretty apparent...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:41 .

[krukow]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

krukow wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...

krukow wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...

luzburg wrote...

well hes right about the crusible but as he said make up our own imagination about it

He is saying, the Crucible and Catalyst were contrived, not Dervied from the plot. So the plot legitimacy is questionalble. As a result, any imagination given to the the story is just as legit and original as the original plot....

Its hard to put in words what he said.. He seems like he is good with words..

The catalyst maybe (though there was always a strong possibility of there being "something" behind the reapers), but the crucible is the point of the first mission after you get off Earth.  It's introduced to the game before Garrus is.

Yeah. And how was Crucible introduced?? In Mars archives. Just when Reapers come knocking, u get the plans for doomsday device, gift wrapped by Protheans.
Wasn't it too convenient of a plot point that the formula to destroy Reapers was in Mars archives??? And the reasons why we did not find it earlier, is yet another cheesy line. Process of elimination??

Ass pull if u ask me..

Also, Read my Signature!!!

For starters, a deus ex machina is something new introduced at the end to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem.  The catalyst is introduced early in the game.  It's not a deus ex machina.  It's a McGuffin.  It's the thing you're planning to use to beat the reapers for the whole game. 

And they somewhat explained that.  The alliance had those archives for decades, but hadn't done much with them (a doomsday device to destroy the reapers isn't very useful if you don't believe in reapers).  It's flimsy, but most epic sagas center around a series of unlikely events (droids carrying the plans for the death star just happen to land near and be bought by Darth Vader's son.  How convienant...). 

If you don't like the story they wrote, that's fine, but it was their story to write.  You wanted a conventional war and you didn't get it.  I did too.  However, with the ec, what we got was pretty much coherant.  You're just looking for reasons to complain now.

The catalyst (star kid) is not introduced until the very end of the game and is most certainly a DEM, a literal god from the machine.

I meant to say crucible, but you're still wrong.  The catalyst is introduced as the missing piece mid-way through the game, though nobody has any idea what it is.  It's final form is revealed at the end, but that doesn't make it a DEM.  The idea of it had been introduced much earlier. It isn't a new concept, it's just finally been revealed.

[Mythx88]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Mythx88 wrote...



Unlike Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns who gave the EC a thumbs up, this gives a clearer view on what the EC accomplished. The whole thing at 1:45 is what I am refering to.

"Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns disagree with me so they're stupid, this guy still does so he's THE BEST PERSON EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!11!!one!one!11!"

That isn't what I said. I referenced them because those two gave it a thumbs up on two of the things this guy references at 1:45 in his video, but didn't touch on the other problems that the EC misses to clarify.

I agree with them, not disagree, that the EC does address things like Character focus and some things in the story, but to let the EC off the hook while there are still plenty of problems with the Genre/Central conflict is silly. 

Silly troll.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

krukow wrote...


I meant to say crucible, but you're still wrong.  The catalyst is introduced as the missing piece mid-way through the game, though nobody has any idea what it is.  It's final form is revealed at the end, but that doesn't make it a DEM.  The idea of it had been introduced much earlier. It isn't a new concept, it's just finally been revealed.

I suppose you might be right.


But it is still an ass pull.

[Drudez]

Just saw the video, this guy is still pretty much my hero.

[D24O]

Cerbrus operative wrote...

Guys do you think future DLCs are going to explain who designed the plans for the crucible?

Yay, I can now pay money to legitimize a plot device and charachter that I abhor!

[krukow]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

krukow wrote...


I meant to say crucible, but you're still wrong.  The catalyst is introduced as the missing piece mid-way through the game, though nobody has any idea what it is.  It's final form is revealed at the end, but that doesn't make it a DEM.  The idea of it had been introduced much earlier. It isn't a new concept, it's just finally been revealed.

I suppose you might be right.


But it is still an ass pull.

So were the Dead Men of Dunharrow.  I still love Return of the King.  The movie, they were less important in the book.

You get that from fantasy/sci-fi movies sometimes.

Modifié par krukow, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:51 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Mythx88 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Mythx88 wrote...



Unlike Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns who gave the EC a thumbs up, this gives a clearer view on what the EC accomplished. The whole thing at 1:45 is what I am refering to.

"Angryjoe and Jeremyjahns disagree with me so they're stupid, this guy still does so he's THE BEST PERSON EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!11!!one!one!11!"

That isn't what I said. I referenced them because those two gave it a thumbs up on two of the things this guy references at 1:45 in his video, but didn't touch on the other problems that the EC misses to clarify.

I agree with them, not disagree, that the EC does address things like Character focus and some things in the story, but to let the EC off the hook while there are still plenty of problems with the Genre/Central conflict is silly. 

Silly troll.

That's precisely what you said. They accept the EC and admit that while it still has flaws it's much better than what it was. You, however, refuse to move on from "everything is terrible, BioWare hates me personally" and since that's not the position THEY hold anymore, you will denigrate their opinions. 

The "problems" you still have were never going to be addressed by the EC. You simply wanted an entirely different game - one that BioWare never had ANY intent of making. 

If I may offer you one piece of unsolicited advice, given that you will continue to whine and complain about every single thing BioWare does from here on out: the door is that way. 

[krukow]

double post, ignore, I'm an idiot.

Modifié par krukow, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[Mr.House]

Thanks alot OP for wasting my time.

[timj2011]

JackumsD wrote...

If they're drinking the haterade, there's no reasoning with them. It's best if you just laugh from afar.

I'll get the popcorn, you get the drinks.

People like us are too few and far between. Sometimes it's hard to just sit back and let them squander.

[Bill Casey]

Also, the line "You wouldn't know them, and there's not enough time to explain" is fine. The catalyst has a point there...
That and the "changed variables" are fine. The Crucible didn't reprogram the Reapers, it made them rethink what organics are capable of...

Otherwise he's correct...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[DGMockingJay]

krukow wrote...

For starters, a deus ex machina is something new introduced at the end to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem.  The catalyst is introduced early in the game.  It's not a deus ex machina.  It's a McGuffin.  It's the thing you're planning to use to beat the reapers for the whole game. 

Agreed its a McGuffin. But also the fact that Catalyst happens to be an AI God, or just an rogue AI in the end, who seemingly sloved all the problems the Protagonist had [by introducing space magic of Synthesis no less], makes it look like a Des Ex to me. So, its a mixture of McGuffin and Desu Ex Machina plot. But Lets not go into details. Just leave it at that.

krukow wrote...

And they somewhat explained that.  The alliance had those archives for decades, but hadn't done much with them (a doomsday device to destroy the reapers isn't very useful if you don't believe in reapers).  It's flimsy, but most epic sagas center around a series of unlikely events (droids carrying the plans for the death star just happen to land near and be bought by Darth Vader's son.  How convienant...). 

Somewhat explanation?? Liara said, why we found the plans NOW of all time because we are now desperate and Process of elimination. Why she never went into details seems like even writers did not know what to tell the player at that point to make it more believable.

Never saw the original or any Star Wars, so can't tell about your example. But lets take Harry Potter. Harry did not find the secret of Horcrux lying in his backyard. If it were, it would have looked cheap and just contrived, making it look like, Rowling did not know how to introduce Horcrux secret to Harry, and she pulled this one right off her ass.

There was no foreshadowing of the crucible in previous games, and the fact that the crucible is introduced just 30 minutes to the start of the game, and most importantly the way it is introduced, makes it just as believable as Unicorns with Thenix cannons on their horns in ME3.

krukow wrote...

If you don't like the story they wrote, that's fine, but it was their story to write.  You wanted a conventional war and you didn't get it.

I know it is not my story. Thanks for stating the obvious. I dont know why people keep saying that though. Just because it is not my story, is it above criticism??

Anyway, I never wanted a conventional war. I wanted a story that looks like that it did make sense. But apparently in a world full of Relays and Biotics powers that is too much to ask.

krukow wrote...

You're just looking for reasons to complain now.

It is just like me saying, You are just looking for reasons to LOVE the game. That is offensive on many levels.

Modifié par DGMockingJay, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:56 .

[M Hedonist]

krukow wrote...

Some of his complaints just came of as whiney. Like his complaint about the catalyst saying that "we wouldn't know them and there isn't time". If the crucible was designed multiple, multiple cycles ago, we wouldn't know of them. And maybe the catalyst didn't feel there was time for a 25 minute lecture about alien species that existed 500,000 years ago (assuming the crucible was designed only 10 cycles ago, which I'm sure it wasn't). It was designed by a prior cycle. Get over it.

It's a cheap cop-out line that doesn't explain anything. Why did they design the Crucible like this? Why does Destroy destroy all synthetics? Why does Shepard have to die for Synthesis? These and many more questions were simply ignored via the cheapest cop-out line ever. "There is no time"

Modifié par Sauruz, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:56 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

That video kinda sucked. Too much talking, and the visuals were a bit boring to look at. I also wish he had made better use of the medium. A poll would have been nice. All in all, I rate this video 2/10. I'm hoping for a newer version with a better conclusion. Actually, I might start a petition to get his attention!!

[xsdob]

I prefer angry joe, not for the EC or ME3 related videos, but I find his videos in general fun to watch.

This guy, not so much.

[krukow]

DGMockingJay wrote...

Somewhat explanation?? Liara said, why we found the plans NOW of all time because we are now desperate and Process of elimination. Why she never went into details seems like even writers did not know what to tell the player at that point to make it more believable.

...That doesn't make perfect sense?  We're desperate, so we finally turn to things we had ignored before?

Also, TIM criticizes the Alliance because they've had the archives for years, but never done anything with them.

So yeah, it's not that we find them just as the reapers attack, it's that we'd had them for years and not cared until the reapers attacked.

[Mr.House]

xsdob wrote...

I prefer angry joe, not for the EC or ME3 related videos, but I find his videos in general fun to watch.

This guy, not so much.

Angry joe is just better overall. This guy just guves me a headache.

[legion999]

Sauruz wrote...

krukow wrote...

Some of his complaints just came of as whiney. Like his complaint about the catalyst saying that "we wouldn't know them and there isn't time". If the crucible was designed multiple, multiple cycles ago, we wouldn't know of them. And maybe the catalyst didn't feel there was time for a 25 minute lecture about alien species that existed 500,000 years ago (assuming the crucible was designed only 10 cycles ago, which I'm sure it wasn't). It was designed by a prior cycle. Get over it.

It's a cheap cop-out line that doesn't explain anything. Why did they design the Crucible like this? Why does Destroy destroy all synthetics? Why does Shepard have to die for Synthesis? These and many more questions were simply ignored via the cheapest cop-out line ever. "There is no time"

Yeah, but it's not as if it's the leader of the Reapers you're talking to.

...Oh wait it is. WTF?

[krukow]

Sauruz wrote...

krukow wrote...

Some of his complaints just came of as whiney. Like his complaint about the catalyst saying that "we wouldn't know them and there isn't time". If the crucible was designed multiple, multiple cycles ago, we wouldn't know of them. And maybe the catalyst didn't feel there was time for a 25 minute lecture about alien species that existed 500,000 years ago (assuming the crucible was designed only 10 cycles ago, which I'm sure it wasn't). It was designed by a prior cycle. Get over it.

It's a cheap cop-out line that doesn't explain anything. Why did they design the Crucible like this? Why does Destroy destroy all synthetics? Why does Shepard have to die for Synthesis? These and many more questions were simply ignored via the cheapest cop-out line ever. "There is no time"

What do any of your questions have to do with the question of "who designed the crucible?"  That was the only question brushed aside by the catalyst.  Shepard asks who designed it, star kid says it was designed by someone Shep's never heard of, and there's no time to explain who they are.  That in no way brushes aside questions about how or why it works.  It's simply a statement that who designed the crucible would have no meaning to Shep and there's not enough time to tell him all about them.

[xsdob]

Mr.House wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I prefer angry joe, not for the EC or ME3 related videos, but I find his videos in general fun to watch.

This guy, not so much.

Angry joe is just better overall. This guy just guves me a headache.

I'm just glad he sounds actually awake this time, his nerdrage one sounded like he was on quaaludes the whole time to me, dead and not emoting in the slightest and just droning on and on and on and on and on and on for 40 minutes.

This video was short and he sounded more energetic, which was an improvment, the droning was still there though.

[M Hedonist]

krukow wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

krukow wrote...

Some of his complaints just came of as whiney. Like his complaint about the catalyst saying that "we wouldn't know them and there isn't time". If the crucible was designed multiple, multiple cycles ago, we wouldn't know of them. And maybe the catalyst didn't feel there was time for a 25 minute lecture about alien species that existed 500,000 years ago (assuming the crucible was designed only 10 cycles ago, which I'm sure it wasn't). It was designed by a prior cycle. Get over it.

It's a cheap cop-out line that doesn't explain anything. Why did they design the Crucible like this? Why does Destroy destroy all synthetics? Why does Shepard have to die for Synthesis? These and many more questions were simply ignored via the cheapest cop-out line ever. "There is no time"

What do any of your questions have to do with the question of "who designed the crucible?"  That was the only question brushed aside by the catalyst.  Shepard asks who designed it, star kid says it was designed by someone Shep's never heard of, and there's no time to explain who they are.  That in no way brushes aside questions about how or why it works.  It's simply a statement that who designed the crucible would have no meaning to Shep and there's not enough time to tell him all about them.

Telling us about its creators could've given us insight on why they designed the Crucible and its functions in such an odd way.
As it is, the Catalyst might as well have made everything up on the spot.

[Jadebaby]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

As always a fun watch.