158 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

That video kinda sucked. Too much talking, and the visuals were a bit boring to look at. I also wish he had made better use of the medium. A poll would have been nice. All in all, I rate this video 2/10. I'm hoping for a newer version with a better conclusion. Actually, I might start a petition to get his attention!!

made me laugh.:happy:

[DGMockingJay]

krukow wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...

Somewhat explanation?? Liara said, why we found the plans NOW of all time because we are now desperate and Process of elimination. Why she never went into details seems like even writers did not know what to tell the player at that point to make it more believable.

...That doesn't make perfect sense?  We're desperate, so we finally turn to things we had ignored before?

Also, TIM criticizes the Alliance because they've had the archives for years, but never done anything with them.

So yeah, it's not that we find them just as the reapers attack, it's that we'd had them for years and not cared until the reapers attacked.

Convinient, dont u think..?? Makes it so less work for writers, who are headbutting their heads for months on HOW WE GONNA STOP THE REAPERZZZZ

Also, I happen to remember, BW said in an interview, U wont find a long lost Reaper off button in the game. Please tell me he was not referring to Crucibl, cuz it looks like a Reaper off button, but a fancy one!!

[Bill Casey]

DGMockingJay wrote...

krukow wrote...

For starters, a deus ex machina is something new introduced at the end to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem.  The catalyst is introduced early in the game.  It's not a deus ex machina.  It's a McGuffin.  It's the thing you're planning to use to beat the reapers for the whole game. 

Agreed its a McGuffin. But also the fact that Catalyst happens to be an AI God, or just an rogue AI in the end, who seemingly sloved all the problems the Protagonist had [by introducing space magic of Synthesis no less], makes it look like a Des Ex to me. So, its a mixture of McGuffin and Desu Ex Machina plot. But Lets not go into details. Just leave it at that.

It's not a macguffin because the Crucible itself has an important function...
It's a device that can defeat the Reapers...

A macguffin serves no further purpose other than being desirable...
The Crucible actually does something...

SwordOfPlotAdvancement
PlotCouponThatDoesSomething
LostSuperweapon

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:08 .

[Fiannawolf]

Would it have been so bad to win conventionally? Isnt that why my Sheps got eveyone on the same track, amassed fleets and resources, then prep'd for Earth? *sigh*

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Would it have been so bad to win conventionally? Isnt that why my Sheps got eveyone on the same track, amassed fleets and resources, then prep'd for Earth? *sigh*

No, that was for building and protecting The Crucible.

[Bantz]

what i like is biowares idea of giving us "closer and more detail" is to have Shep ask "who designed the this thing" and be told "you don't know them and there isn't time". That's like me going to buy a car on the last day of a sale and when I ask who built it being told the same thing. It doesn't make any damn sense. They could have thrown boggle letters at the wall looked at what came up and said "ok so they designed the weapon that will save the galaxy". Summed it up by the spacebrat saying "these people designed it but they weren't in time to stop the reapers".

[krukow]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

Would it have been so bad to win conventionally? Isnt that why my Sheps got eveyone on the same track, amassed fleets and resources, then prep'd for Earth? *sigh*

No, that was for building and protecting The Crucible.

Fiannawolf is correct.  Replay the game, it's crucible or bust pretty early on.

The bigger point is that, yes, a conventional victory would have been fine if they'd gone that way.  It's what a lot of people wanted, and (let's be honest) what the ads hinted at (the retake earth trailer was pretty crucible free).  Howver, from the get-go, the game establishes that the plot is "use mega-weapon to defeat villains who can't be defeated conventionally". 

So where I get annoyed is when people take the ending they didn't want and act like it's incoherant (when the EC makes it very coherant) because it's the ending they didn't want.  It's tiresome.  Just say you didn't like the ending, stop acting like a VI being the cause of the reapers somehow doesn't meld with the sci-fi talky/techy themes of Mass Effect (or whatever else people complain about).

[Brovikk Rasputin]

krukow wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Fiannawolf wrote...

Would it have been so bad to win conventionally? Isnt that why my Sheps got eveyone on the same track, amassed fleets and resources, then prep'd for Earth? *sigh*

No, that was for building and protecting The Crucible.

Fiannawolf is correct.  Replay the game, it's crucible or bust pretty early on.

Uhm..

[Reptilian Rob]

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

[Mythx88]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

Take the EC DLC for what it is (a clarification of some issues), not for what I want it to be (a clarification for the rest)?

Sounds like good advice. :happy:

Modifié par Mythx88, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:34 .

[M Hedonist]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

That puts it pretty well. At this point many are practically telling Bioware to adopt their own headcanon.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Sauruz wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

That puts it pretty well. At this point many are practically telling Bioware to adopt their own headcanon.

"Practically"?

[Reptilian Rob]

Mythx88 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

Take the EC DLC for what it is (a clarification of some issues), not for what I want it to be (a clarification for the rest)?

Sounds like good advice. :happy:

To be fair, we all kniw it wasn't going to be perfect.

Expectations were set far too high. 

[tanisha__unknown]

He basically explained that the concept of the crucible does not make any sense. I agree, but that problem existed since day one and is not bound to EC. EC was never intended to change the endings but to explain them further and give additional closure. It did that very well, as TUN stated, and that's why I think BW did a very good job on the EC. They did a very poor one on the main plot though, but that is not EC specific.

[Mythx88]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Mythx88 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Take the EC for what it is, not what you want it to be.

Take the EC DLC for what it is (a clarification of some issues), not for what I want it to be (a clarification for the rest)?

Sounds like good advice. :happy:

To be fair, we all kniw it wasn't going to be perfect.

Expectations were set far too high. 

I suppose that may be true, but this is Bioware. Afterall the IT was/is supported by the die-hard Bioware fans that just couldn't accept the possibility that Bioware could end their masterpeice of a series with such an ending. 

[frylock23]

krukow wrote...

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

krukow wrote...

Some of his complaints just came of as whiney. Like his complaint about the catalyst saying that "we wouldn't know them and there isn't time". If the crucible was designed multiple, multiple cycles ago, we wouldn't know of them. And maybe the catalyst didn't feel there was time for a 25 minute lecture about alien species that existed 500,000 years ago (assuming the crucible was designed only 10 cycles ago, which I'm sure it wasn't). It was designed by a prior cycle. Get over it.

Some people like stories that make sense.

The story makes plenty of sense.

Oh my god, what we shepard's grandparents named?  WE DON"T KNOW!!  PLOTHOLE! PLOTHOLE!

The crucible was designed by a different species, a long time ago.  We don't know who(though the catalyst does, because he was around then), and it's not plot-important.  Who designed the crucible has literally NO EFFECT on the plot. 

Get over it.

No, the story doesn't make sense.

Would you trust someone who admits to being your enemy, makes it plain that he's crazy and genocidal, tells you that he does what does to prevent a galaxy wide disaster that demonstrably has never happened although he asserts it's inevitable and then presents three options to you about the so-called super weapon you're standing on making it plain you must pick one?

What possible reason do you have to trust a single word coming out of his mouth?

BioWare chose to give him absolutely no credibility. They gave you no reason to trust a single thing he says. You have no reason to believe that any of the otions he tells you do a single thing he says they do.

BioWare could have fixed that easily with the EC. Instead, they doubled down on him and made it worse.

[N7-RedFox]

I think the rumored Leviathan DLC would be great for filling in a few plotholes

[krukow]

[quote]frylock23 wrote...
What possible reason do you have to trust a single word coming out of his mouth?[quote]

The war was over.  Shep was passed out on the ground, the crucible did not fire, the cycle was doomed.  It was literally OVER.

Then star kid brings shep up, wakes him up, and explains his options.  He even explains his motivation for giving Shep new options (he felt his old solution no longer worked).  What reason would Shepard have to doubt this?  If the starkid wanted to defeat him, he would have left down there with Anderson as the cycle came to it's close.

Modifié par krukow, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .

[M Hedonist]

Jinx1720 wrote...

He basically explained that the concept of the crucible does not make any sense. I agree, but that problem existed since day one and is not bound to EC. EC was never intended to change the endings but to explain them further and give additional closure. It did that very well, as TUN stated, and that's why I think BW did a very good job on the EC. They did a very poor one on the main plot though, but that is not EC specific.

I think he would have liked to know more about the Crucible and why it works the way it works.

Modifié par Sauruz, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[The Interloper]

frylock23 wrote...


Oh my god, what we shepard's grandparents named?  WE DON"T KNOW!!  PLOTHOLE! PLOTHOLE!

The crucible was designed by a different species, a long time ago.  We don't know who(though the catalyst does, because he was around then), and it's not plot-important.  Who designed the crucible has literally NO EFFECT on the plot. 

If it was revealed that Shepard's grandparents made the cycle then yeah, maybe we should know about them.

Lol, they designed the very thing that allows us to win, the very thing that determines the future of the galaxy, and they have no effect on the plot?

[krukow]

The Interloper wrote...

frylock23 wrote...


Oh my god, what we shepard's grandparents named?  WE DON"T KNOW!!  PLOTHOLE! PLOTHOLE!

The crucible was designed by a different species, a long time ago.  We don't know who(though the catalyst does, because he was around then), and it's not plot-important.  Who designed the crucible has literally NO EFFECT on the plot. 

If it was revealed that Shepard's grandparents made the cycle then yeah, maybe we should know about them.

Lol, they designed the very thing that allows us to win, the very thing that determines the future of the galaxy, and they have no effect on the plot?

Okay,let's say the crucible was invented by the qxysiblisians. 

There, how has the plot changed? 

If Shep was asking how it was created, or why it was designed a specific way, that would be one thing.  Knowing who designed it doesn't affect the plot.

[Siansonea]

I liked it. And added props for using "Born Free". LOVE that song.

[Rhz]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Rhz wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

No one will ever explain why the Catalyst didn't help Saren on ME1.

Because the catalyst once says "Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here". He couldnt help him because he wasnt "at home".

What? What? What the actual hell? He says that because "the cycle" leaves the younger species alone that has absolutely NOTHING to do with not helping Saren.

u not comprehend

"The last time we were here" usually means hes comming with the reapers and leaving with the reapers, that means while sovereign was trying to open the citadell realy, the catalyst was in dark space with the rest of the reapers, otherwise why would he say the last time WE were here

If the catalyst was all the time at the citadel he would've said the "last time the reapers were here"

Modifié par Rhz, 03 juillet 2012 - 08:07 .

[DGMockingJay]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

I think the rumored Leviathan DLC would be great for filling in a few plotholes

I dont think there are any plot holes anymore.. Its just that story is messy and doesnt make sense at points.. The game makes so many assumption that players would simply assume Why X happened, or Why XYZ was doing or did at some point... They left out so many explanations to the player to speculate that it is astounding that they ever thought it would do justice to the game, a game thats tradmark has been detailed storyline in past.

Too many speculations IMO.. We as a player are doing the writers job, filling in story with head cannons and ideas. Its lazy writing from BW!!

[Mythx88]

krukow wrote...

The Interloper wrote...

frylock23 wrote...


Oh my god, what we shepard's grandparents named?  WE DON"T KNOW!!  PLOTHOLE! PLOTHOLE!

The crucible was designed by a different species, a long time ago.  We don't know who(though the catalyst does, because he was around then), and it's not plot-important.  Who designed the crucible has literally NO EFFECT on the plot. 

If it was revealed that Shepard's grandparents made the cycle then yeah, maybe we should know about them.

Lol, they designed the very thing that allows us to win, the very thing that determines the future of the galaxy, and they have no effect on the plot?

Okay,let's say the crucible was invented by the qxysiblisians. 

There, how has the plot changed? 

If Shep was asking how it was created, or why it was designed a specific way, that would be one thing.  Knowing who designed it doesn't affect the plot.

3:44- 4:33 of the video.