158 réponses à ce sujet

[Ky3217]

Rhz wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Rhz wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

No one will ever explain why the Catalyst didn't help Saren on ME1.

Because the catalyst once says "Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here". He couldnt help him because he wasnt "at home".

What? What? What the actual hell? He says that because "the cycle" leaves the younger species alone that has absolutely NOTHING to do with not helping Saren.

u not comprehend

"The last time we were here" usually means hes comming with the reapers and leaving with the reapers, that means while sovereign was trying to open the citadell realy, the catalyst was in dark space with the rest of the reapers, otherwise why would he say the last time WE were here

If the catalyst was all the time at the citadel he would've said the "last time the reapers were here"

Sure, this may make sense if you take it out of the context of the conversation,  but in context, it's quite clear that he's talking about when the Reapers were harvesting the Protheans and humans were a "young" race living in caves

[squee365]

Oh look more complaining about crucible/catalyst: macguffin/deus ex machina

Like we didn't have enough...
I said this before in another thread and I'll say it again.
I loved MrBTongues other videos but this one just seemed like a throw away, like he did it out of obligation and not because he actually wanted to and it really shows. He skipped over so many details about the EC, whether he had a positive or negative thought on the details, he still skipped over it. He obviously just doesn't care about Mass Effect anymore.

[krukow]

squee365 wrote...

Oh look more complaining about crucible/catalyst: macguffin/deus ex machina

Like we didn't have enough...
I said this before in another thread and I'll say it again.
I loved MrBTongues other videos but this one just seemed like a throw away, like he did it out of obligation and not because he actually wanted to and it really shows. He skipped over so many details about the EC, whether he had a positive or negative thought on the details, he still skipped over it. He obviously just doesn't care about Mass Effect anymore.

Agreed.  I mean, he didn't even bother to rip off Red Letter Media this time!

[Kamfrenchie]

krukow wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

The EC couldn't fix the bad writing that plagues the entire game ( the galaxy leaders being a bunch of incompetent fools, TIM turning to th dark side, i mean reapers, the asspull/DEM crucible that doesnt have any explanation, why aren't the reapers attacking the citadel first etc.)

SIGH...

The leaders have always been incompetent fools, ever since ME1.  However, in this, they're more protectionary.  They're worried about their specific people more than the galaxy as a whole.  Which should be semi-understandable.  The two guards in the room between the war room and the main area actually have a conversation about this...

TIM was indoctrinated.  Ummm, should explain the turn...

The crucible has plenty of explanation.  It was designed thousands or millions of years ago by a race Shepard would not have heard of.  They've been passed, and refined, from cycle to cycle.  We found the plans on mars years ago, but pretty much ignored them till the reaper threat was undeniable and we were desperate.  It's also not DEM, you should probably look that term up.

I actually can't explain why they don't attack the citadel first.  Possibly because they didn't emerge from dark space there this time.  I'll give you "speculations" on this one though.

'm no talking only aout the concil, although it's really overplayed.
 I'm talking about the defense commitee (it's our job to have a plan but let's just ask shepard), hackett who uses ww1 strategies, and many others lik thesalarians and their issues with the genophage.


TIM indoctrinatd ? how? He knows what happened to his crew in he dead reaper, no way he'd do smething as stupid as what e does in ME3 (reapers implant, controlling them, please) It's just too panfully obvious that he is wrong throughout the game, him and his indoctrination are bull****. Its like having a specialist in radioativity run in  reactor core without ny protection, his stupidity is a plothole

Unles you count that bad webcomic tha the game doesn't even reference. I don't. Ain' mentionned, doesn't counnt.
Evn then, why wold he essurect shepard in ME2 if he's indctrinted since the beginning?


And no, the crucible has no explanation as to ow it works, and his backstoory is ust utter bs.

So the reapers conveniently missed these crucible plans eerytime the raped ? pfff please. nd also, we build t without even knowing how it works and other species improvd it without nderstanding it, ad we find it at the right moment? Nice ass pull.


he answer to the last quesion about the reaprs is that th writers are bad.

[JesseLee202]

squee365 wrote...

Oh look more complaining about crucible/catalyst: macguffin/deus ex machina

Like we didn't have enough...
I said this before in another thread and I'll say it again.
I loved MrBTongues other videos but this one just seemed like a throw away, like he did it out of obligation and not because he actually wanted to and it really shows. He skipped over so many details about the EC, whether he had a positive or negative thought on the details, he still skipped over it. He obviously just doesn't care about Mass Effect anymore.

He already decided a long time ago that he was not goind to like the EC. 

Thats why I don't agree with him.

[ArchDuck]

A decent watch, seems on the mark.

[Mythx88]

krukow wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

The EC couldn't fix the bad writing that plagues the entire game ( the galaxy leaders being a bunch of incompetent fools, TIM turning to th dark side, i mean reapers, the asspull/DEM crucible that doesnt have any explanation, why aren't the reapers attacking the citadel first etc.)

SIGH...

The leaders have always been incompetent fools, ever since ME1.  However, in this, they're more protectionary.  They're worried about their specific people more than the galaxy as a whole.  Which should be semi-understandable.  The two guards in the room between the war room and the main area actually have a conversation about this...

TIM was indoctrinated.  Ummm, should explain the turn...

The crucible has plenty of explanation.  It was designed thousands or millions of years ago by a race Shepard would not have heard of.  They've been passed, and refined, from cycle to cycle.  We found the plans on mars years ago, but pretty much ignored them till the reaper threat was undeniable and we were desperate.  It's also not DEM, you should probably look that term up.

I actually can't explain why they don't attack the citadel first.  Possibly because they didn't emerge from dark space there this time.  I'll give you "speculations" on this one though.

A toast to speculations? 

[13Dannyboy13]

Interesting video, he made some good points. In the end though, an expanded ending doesn't fix a broken one.

[macrocarl]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Also, to be more specific, I don't agree with how he defines genre. A couple whiny videos before he likens ME to Star Trek where things are rooted in hard science. 1st off: what? Star Trek has plenty plenty plenty of god like beings all the dang time in the show. Like super agrressively cheesy ones.
Secondly, ME is a blend of several sub genres of sci-fi, not one genre. Case Hudson said as much during an interview. He spoke about all the different movies he rented, good ones, bad ones and ones in between to get a blend for the ME-verse.
MrBtongue assumes that a genre's purpose is too inflexible to include other influences. It's 2012. It's post post modern, and I can tell you for a fact, that we are way way way over genre constriction in Sci-Fi.
He doesn't like 'hologram kid'. Which is fine, but that doesn't make him correct. Also, explaining what the Crucible is isn't important. I'm not sure why everyone needs a literal explanation for everything........ I'm seeing that same complaint over and over again on the interwebs right now. It's kind of freaky. So no, b**ch slap denied.

Demanding an explaination fo the crucibleis called having standard.

If the ntire galaxy has no hope of fihting the reapers but an unknown convenient device can, some people re gona want an explanation as to how this artifact can do such miraculous things.
Besides, mass effect had the habit of explaining just about anything in its universe, but oh ookk, not for the crucible

Demanding an explanation for the crucible is not really neccessary in my mind..... which is my opinion of course. For me, I don't care. There's lots of other stuff I was more invested in.
While I do see why people want one, not everything is explained in the ME-verse. There's lots of open ended information in the Codexes for instance. And while I do see your point that having a a huge unknowable thiing be the central drive of the conclusion of the ME series seen as possibly problematic, it's no more so than lots and lots of very popular sci-fi that's out now.

I mean if Starbrat said what it actually was would you have honestly liked it more?
My point is, I feel like it comes down to people who liked it and people who don't. But to hinge your dissatisfaction on not 'splainin enough seems a bit misguided. The fact of the matter is, some people just plain old don't like the ending for a bunch of emotional reasons, not structural. 

[Bigdoser]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

The EC couldn't fix the bad writing that plagues the entire game ( the galaxy leaders being a bunch of incompetent fools, TIM turning to th dark side, i mean reapers, the asspull/DEM crucible that doesnt have any explanation, why aren't the reapers attacking the citadel first etc.)

In the end it all depends on your own willing suspension of disbelief or standards for storytelling. Many people have low standards and are happy with EC because it brings back some emotion in it, and they ignore the problem with cerberus, the crucible and cie.

If you have higher standards like me, the issues are just too obvious. But don't hope to convinc people with low standards, they'll give free pass to bioware.
All we can do is agree thaat the plot/stoyteling is bad, and get thos over with.

I used to like ME nd preent it as a good serie, now if I ever enjoy any gams with that IP it will be a guilty pleasure if anything. It's ruined for me.

It inspired itself heavily on the freespace serie plot, and could have done better. BUt now freespace will remain a bette universe wth better plot, story, and care

Yup I agree.

[Kamfrenchie]

macrocarl wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Also, to be more specific, I don't agree with how he defines genre. A couple whiny videos before he likens ME to Star Trek where things are rooted in hard science. 1st off: what? Star Trek has plenty plenty plenty of god like beings all the dang time in the show. Like super agrressively cheesy ones.
Secondly, ME is a blend of several sub genres of sci-fi, not one genre. Case Hudson said as much during an interview. He spoke about all the different movies he rented, good ones, bad ones and ones in between to get a blend for the ME-verse.
MrBtongue assumes that a genre's purpose is too inflexible to include other influences. It's 2012. It's post post modern, and I can tell you for a fact, that we are way way way over genre constriction in Sci-Fi.
He doesn't like 'hologram kid'. Which is fine, but that doesn't make him correct. Also, explaining what the Crucible is isn't important. I'm not sure why everyone needs a literal explanation for everything........ I'm seeing that same complaint over and over again on the interwebs right now. It's kind of freaky. So no, b**ch slap denied.

Demanding an explaination fo the crucibleis called having standard.

If the ntire galaxy has no hope of fihting the reapers but an unknown convenient device can, some people re gona want an explanation as to how this artifact can do such miraculous things.
Besides, mass effect had the habit of explaining just about anything in its universe, but oh ookk, not for the crucible

Demanding an explanation for the crucible is not really neccessary in my mind..... which is my opinion of course. For me, I don't care. There's lots of other stuff I was more invested in.
While I do see why people want one, not everything is explained in the ME-verse. There's lots of open ended information in the Codexes for instance. And while I do see your point that having a a huge unknowable thiing be the central drive of the conclusion of the ME series seen as possibly problematic, it's no more so than lots and lots of very popular sci-fi that's out now.

I mean if Starbrat said what it actually was would you have honestly liked it more?
My point is, I feel like it comes down to people who liked it and people who don't. But to hinge your dissatisfaction on not 'splainin enough seems a bit misguided. The fact of the matter is, some people just plain old don't like the ending for a bunch of emotional reasons, not structural. 

the fact that there is no explaination on such a crucial device just shows plain laziness an inspiration on Bioware part imo. With that kind of plotholes I just can't help but imagining the writer go "**** it, i can't be bothered ".

Along with the oher plot problems wih ME3. I can forgive slight oversight just fine, but here you have a very convenient device/ass pull and not eve an explaination as to how it works. For all the characters know it could be a bomb annihilating the galaxy, or a reaper trap meant to blow up the fleet protecting it.

Sure, I still wouldnt like it even if it ws explined, but atleast I wouldn't feel like the author is just being lazy or thinking tht all the consumrs are tool who won't question it. It adds insult to injury

[jfeth713]

krukow wrote...

I actually can't explain why they don't attack the citadel first.  Possibly because they didn't emerge from dark space there this time.  I'll give you "speculations" on this one though.

There are a couple of things to remember here. One the crucible is useless without the catalyst. Since Shepard doesn't find out what the catalyst is until the end of the game the crucible is not a threat until then. That's when the Illusive Man goes to the Citadel and informs starchild that Shepard  knows what the catalyst is and the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth to protect it.

Second, in ME1 you find out from Vigil that the Citadel is a Mass Relay that lets the entire Reaper army travel back and forth from dark space. In previous cycles this where their reapering of the galaxy started. It would have made more sense for the Reapers to throw all their forces at the crucible once it appeared in the Sol System and destroy it. Once it's gone they can keep the Citadel and go about their business of harvesting organic life.

[macrocarl]

Well, Ok, guess we have to agree to disagree. Being 'lazy' and 'plot holes' and what have you is your opinion........ and valid of course. I will say this though, if ME3 explained how an 'unconventional win' worked I'd be underwhelmed since everyone was saying that in order to win against the Reapers they'd have to do something no one ever tried before (or even thought about)

[Kamfrenchie]

macrocarl wrote...

Well, Ok, guess we have to agree to disagree. Being 'lazy' and 'plot holes' and what have you is your opinion........ and valid of course. I will say this though, if ME3 explained how an 'unconventional win' worked I'd be underwhelmed since everyone was saying that in order to win against the Reapers they'd have to do something no one ever tried before (or even thought about)

Well that's what writer are paid for. On top off my head, here is an idea. Have the reapers mass their forces into 1 system, then blow up the relay to kill them all. hat'd be a big but effective sacrifice.

We apparently get the plans for harbinger or sovereign cass destroyes at the end of ME2. Why not use those to fin a weakness ? jam their lasers beams or make them less accurate, find a way to break their shield...

Or manage to "fake" the signals emitted by the reaper small fighters so you can sneak up close some bombers or a demolition  team...

See if instead of being an unknown weapon from previous cycle, the crucible was a device meant to neutralize the reaper shields and was based on the plans of ME2 and or what's left of sovereign I wouldnt have much to compain about it.
I thought of it, why couldn't the writer do something like that ? That's why i call laziness

[Kamfrenchie]

jfeth713 wrote...

krukow wrote...

I actually can't explain why they don't attack the citadel first.  Possibly because they didn't emerge from dark space there this time.  I'll give you "speculations" on this one though.

There are a couple of things to remember here. One the crucible is useless without the catalyst. Since Shepard doesn't find out what the catalyst is until the end of the game the crucible is not a threat until then. That's when the Illusive Man goes to the Citadel and informs starchild that Shepard  knows what the catalyst is and the Reapers move the Citadel to Earth to protect it.

Second, in ME1 you find out from Vigil that the Citadel is a Mass Relay that lets the entire Reaper army travel back and forth from dark space. In previous cycles this where their reapering of the galaxy started. It would have made more sense for the Reapers to throw all their forces at the crucible once it appeared in the Sol System and destroy it. Once it's gone they can keep the Citadel and go about their business of harvesting organic life.

But by acquiring the citadel the reapers can shut down all the relays they want so yeah, you'd think they'd bumrush it asap

[felipejiraya]

I like his videos but this about the EC was VERY weak.

He skipped some major details and obviously only done it because if he didn't people would bother him forever.

[jfeth713]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

But by acquiring the citadel the reapers can shut down all the relays they want so yeah, you'd think they'd bumrush it asap

That's my bad then. When I saw attack I thought attack and destroy instead of retake. My guess is if the relays are shut down before the crucible arrives then there's no way to end the war without everyone dieing. It was just a story choice on Biowares part for the Reapers not to go after the Citadel.

[Xellith]

This thread is better than the other copycat thread.

[Mythx88]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9753933


Arisugawa's summary of the citadel nonsense ^

Good read imo.

Modifié par Mythx88, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:14 .

[dreman9999]

About his turtle all then way comment with the crucible....It'snot relevant to what he is complaining about. The turtle reference to where the end of the turtle are,a where. The issue he has is who made the crucible, a who specific. We know where it came from, one of the earlier races, we just don't which one did it, a who.

Know who is just a specific in this case and doesn't help us to know it. In this case with the crucible, know who planned it is just an add it where of came from but does nothing in understand where it came from if we don;t no who made it.

[The_Other_M]

Subguy614 wrote...

Watched this earlier today. Tasteful Understated Nerdrage hits the nail on the head again.

^^That he does.
Totally spot on review.

[Cypher_CS]

Really? And you consider this MrBtongue your Retake prophet or something?

The dude doesn't even know what Changing a Frakking Variable mean!!!!

Jesus F. Christ!!!!
Changing the variables doesn't actually mean changing computer code within the programming of the damn CataKid!!!!!
Changing a Variable is NOT Changing Source Code. It's just introducing different values to existing Variables.
In this case, the very idea of the Crucible connecting to the Citadel, a giant FU Bomb to the Reapers, as well as Shepard being there, changes the frakking variables!!!

[Cypher_CS]

So no, MrFootInMouthRightovertheTongue, there are no civilizations over millions of years who designed the Crucible to change something they didn't know existed.

[shadowkinz]

mrbtongue is awesome

[Cypher_CS]

Yes, indeed...

So awesome that he starts the video by repeating countless times I, I and I and Me, just for the sake of variance, and basically opens the whole diatribe with how awesome and important HE - not the story - to the entire community.
Then, to close, he assumes the authority to release us all from what we all must - obviously - consider to be bad.

Get a grip people.