30 réponses à ce sujet

[dysturbed0ne]

   There are tons of posts regarding this (yes, I realize I'm adding to it) and I haven't read them all, so it is possible these ideas have already came up. This is just my take on what BW could do to lessen the usage of infiltrators. I think the second fix, while limiting, is the best idea to tame the monster that is TC.

   The nerf didn't seem to affect anything. The infiltrators worried about their score take the 40%, not really a change, since pre-nerf they likely were the ones that were not going to help you anyway. The rest take the duration and deal with the damage reduction, which for the SR's is substantial. Even still, I haven't noticed any reduction in the amount infiltrators since the nerf, though I have noticed more shothun infiltrators as opposed to SR users. If anything I am noticing more, but that is probably just because I am looking now. Of course this is only my perception, the actual numbers could be just the opposite, as well as your perception.

Easy fix, but probably not very effective:
 
    If BW really wants to push people off the infiltrator; make evo 4 15% and evo 6 45%. Even that probably wouldn't be enough to push too many away, with the base increase still adding 40%. The natural focus for TC is SR's, if you center the infiltrator around that, instead of every weapon, people will branch out. It doesn't make sense to push the snipers off the infiltrator, so it would have to be the shotties....sorry. As long as you have the highest damage weapons most effective with the same class, that class is going to be over used.

More involved fix, but probably the most effective:
 
    Personally, I would make the base damage (40%) and evo 4 (20%) affect SR's and pistols only, and raise evo 6 back up to 40% for SR's only (remove or re-class the Krysae and remove the scope). This still nerf's TC damage by 30% (10% base and 20% evo 4) and keep the duration nerf as-is. This won't be popular with shotgun inf's, but it would allow BW to buff the shotguns, AR's and SMG's to be useful on the other classes without being ridiculous on the infiltrators. I know this limits the infiltrators playable builds, but without focusing TC, it will always be a problem buffing other weapons to encourage the masses to use them on other classes. Make the other classes as appealing in weapon damage as the infiltrators and people will use them.....me included.

   I enjoy the simplicity of pointing my weapon at something and killing it, as I think many others do. The infiltrators fill this role well. It doesn't take too many tricks or fancy combinations (as a inf with a SR), just TC, point and shoot and you can be effective as long as you understand your limitations. Give some of the other characters that same simplicity and effectiveness, and I think you will see a shift. Problem is you can't with TC as it stands. Well you could, but people will just put the buffed weapons on the infiltrator and the cycle continues.
 
   The shotgun/AR users won't be as upset if they can slap it on a another class and be just as effective damage wise as the infiltrator with their sniper rifles. People are always going to gravitate to the highest damage and TC does that for every weapon. Until that is addressed, I don't see much changing with the infiltrators usage.

Modifié par dysturbed0ne, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[xcrunr1647]

maybe.

but they already did nerf it, so...

[Batgang alumni]

It's already been nerfed. This is old news

[DNC Protoman]

I bet this guy thought he was gonna be all insightfull with this 10- page post too.

The dark heart of the nerfer empire is gone. Cut out and dead. It's not coming back.

[Tokenusername]

lol, ya. Remove variaty to promote variaty. That'll work.

[dysturbed0ne]

Chriss5688 wrote...

Yep, and remove variety regarding builds and weapon-usage. Which is the opposite of what BioWare wants...

Sorry, not happening. Thankfully IMO.

It adds variety, it only limits it with one class.

[Exosnake]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

  There are tons of posts regarding this (yes, I realize I'm adding to it) and I haven't read them all, so it is possible these ideas have already came up. This is just my take on what BW could do to lessen the usage of infiltrators. I think the second fix, while limiting, is the best idea to tame the monster that is TC.

  The nerf didn't seem to affect anything. The infiltrators worried
about their score take the 40%, not really a change, since pre-nerf they
likely were the ones that were not going to help you anyway. The rest
take the duration and deal with the damage reduction, which for the SR's is substantial. Even still, I haven't noticed
any reduction in the amount infiltrators since the nerf, though I have noticed more shothun infiltrators as opposed to SR users. If anything I
am noticing more, but that is probably just because I am looking now. Of course this is only my perception, the actual numbers could be just the opposite, as well as your perception.


Easy fix, but probably not very effective:

 
If BW really wants to push people off the infiltrator; make evo 4 15%
and evo 6 45%. Even that probably wouldn't be enough to push too many
away, with the base increase still adding 40%. The natural focus for TC is SR's, if you center the infiltrator
around that, instead of every weapon, people will branch out. It doesn't
make sense to push the snipers off the infiltrator, so it would have to
be the shotties....sorry. As long as you have the highest damage weapons most effective with the same class, that class is going to be over used.

More involved fix, but probably the most effective:

 
Personally, I would make the base damage (40%) and evo 4 (20%) affect
SR's and pistols only, and raise evo 6 back up to 40% for SR's only (remove or
re-class the Krysae and remove the scope). This still nerf's TC damage by 30% (10% base and 20% evo 4) and keep the duration nerf as-is. This won't be popular with shotgun inf's, but it
would allow BW to buff the shotguns, AR's and SMG's to be useful on the
other classes without being ridiculous on the infiltrators. I know this
limits the infiltrators playable builds, but without focusing TC, it
will always be a problem buffing other weapons to encourage the masses
to use them on other classes. Make the other classes as appealing in weapon damage as the infiltrators and people will use them.....me included.

  I enjoy the simplicity of pointing my weapon at something and killing it, as I think many others do. The infiltrators fill this role well. It doesn't take too many tricks or fancy combinations (as a inf with a SR), just TC, point and shoot and you can be effective as long as you understand your limitations. Give some of the other characters that same simplicity and effectiveness, and I think you will see a shift. Problem is you can't with TC as it stands. Well you could, but people will just put the buffed weapons on the infiltrator and the cycle continues.

 
The shotgun/AR users won't be as upset if they can slap it on a another
class and be just as effective damage wise as the infiltrator with
their sniper rifles. People are always going to gravitate to the highest
damage and TC does that for every weapon. Until that is addressed, I don't see much changing with the infiltrators usage.

I think that weakening Infis won't really help in their popularity. Just tactical cloak is superb for either objectives or reviving or simply quickly getting away from fire.
After the nerf the class certainly is no longer the all devastating killing machine as well as invincible ghost on the maps.

In addition the majority of Players don't even know about any Patches. Maybe 15-20% of all ME 3 players actually care to check the forums for any updates.
Give the patch some time to "sink" in and you'll see that Infis will no longer be as dominant.

Also I don't think that Infis should be any worser when it comes to the damage of their firepower.
Infis are THE most weapon based classes in the game and therefore they need that extra weapon power. Also I don't think that they should just be reduced to sniping.

I'm not sure but doesn't a human solider + adrenaline rush now deal more damage than an infi+shotty?
In any case if anything I wouldn't have ever put something like Energy Drain on a salarian infiltrator which counteracts with the whole weapon based system since it's such an incredible power. Similar ro arc grenades.

All in all it'll take some time till people realise that Infis are changed and IMO no longer the absolute go to class for pretty much everything on every map though they are still great.

[MurderHouse]

I logged in just a few minutes ago in game. My Reeger Carbine is gone. Not coo....

It's still in my manifest. But not in the game. I'm inbetween pissed off and amused.

[Edalborez]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

There are tons of posts regarding this (yes, I realize I'm adding to it) and I haven't read them all

Why do people think saying this means their suggestions become ok?

Personally, I would make the base damage (40%) and evo 4 (20%) affect
SR's and pistols only, and raise evo 6 back up to 40% for SR's only (remove or
re-class the Krysae and remove the scope). ... This won't be popular with shotgun inf's, but it
would allow BW to buff the shotguns, AR's and SMG's to be useful on the
other classes without being ridiculous on the infiltrators. 

You seem to have missed the point of why they nerfed Evolution 6 in the first place. SRs should not be a pigeonholed weapon for Infiltrators only. And why pistols? For your love of versatility you sure seem to advocate making classes less versatile.

Modifié par Edalborez, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:35 .

[dysturbed0ne]

Batgang alumni wrote...

It's already been nerfed. This is old news

And if they don't get the desired effect you don't think they will revisit the issue?

[Bladedrummer]

Infiltrators already took a hit. If people still want to play them it could be that they're just fun to play...

[Omega2079]

The nerf made it harder for me to be as generous when carrying the team.

Make the evo 6 work on all weapon types.

Modifié par Omega2079, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:43 .

[ultima2006]

Tokenusername wrote...

lol, ya. Remove variaty to promote variaty. That'll work.

The OP must have written ME3's ending:)

[dysturbed0ne]

Edalborez wrote...

dysturbed0ne wrote...

There are tons of posts regarding this (yes, I realize I'm adding to it) and I haven't read them all

Why do people think saying this means their suggestions become ok?

Personally, I would make the base damage (40%) and evo 4 (20%) affect
SR's and pistols only, and raise evo 6 back up to 40% for SR's only (remove or
re-class the Krysae and remove the scope). ... This won't be popular with shotgun inf's, but it
would allow BW to buff the shotguns, AR's and SMG's to be useful on the
other classes without being ridiculous on the infiltrators. 

You seem to have missed the point of why they nerfed Evolution 6 in the first place. SRs should not be a pigeonholed weapon for Infiltrators only. And why pistols? For your love of versatility you sure seem to advocate making classes less versatile.

Or it could have been nerfed to accommodate the Krysae and it's ridiculous damage. Evo 6 wasn't a problem before the Krysae.

Not classes....class. BW said the infiltrators are over used, when all weapons are better with TC, do you see that changing?

[Edalborez]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

BW said the infiltrators are over used, when all weapons are better with TC, do you see that changing?

The "Balance all the things" group's suggestion to TC adjustments (which was extremely similar to TC's official adjustment) also included a buff to Sniper Rifles that would even out the "nerf" to Evolution 6 and damage bonus. The net result would be that SRs would be the same as they used to be for Infiltrators (and thus, all other non-SR weapons are still very good for Infs), but much improved for other classes.

The proposed SR buff excluded the Krysae.

Modifié par Edalborez, 03 juillet 2012 - 05:56 .

[dysturbed0ne]

Edalborez wrote...

dysturbed0ne wrote...

BW said the infiltrators are over used, when all weapons are better with TC, do you see that changing?

The "Balance all the things" group's suggestion to TC adjustments (which was extremely similar to TC's official adjustment) also included a buff to Sniper Rifles that would even out the "nerf" to Evolution 6 and damage bonus. The net result would be that SRs would be the same as they used to be for Infiltrators (and thus, all other non-SR weapons are still very good for Infs), but much improved for other classes.

The proposed SR buff excluded the Krysae.

 That still doesn't address the core problem BW gave as the need for the changes in the first place....33% infiltrators in gold. This isn't just about making the infiltrators a sniper class. It's about getting the people using shotguns and AR's on the infiltrator (due to the pure damage output) to use them on other classes and be just as effective.

To me being able to be equally effective with other classes, from a pure shooting stand point, adds much more variey than being able to build one class 3 or 4 different ways.

[Kronner]

Yea, and while you are at it, Adrenaline Rush should only boost Assault Rifle damage. Geez.

[Black Phantom]

This proposal is beyond stupid.

[Tankcommander]

Omega2079 wrote...

The nerf made it harder for me to be as generous when carrying the team.

Make the evo 6 work on all weapon types.

Yeah, no more constant revives to the team anymore. I hate bleeding out and having to watch, so I tried to show the same courtesy....but now I just solo it.

Don't like the Evo 6 idea. Think Evo 6 needs a rebuff and Evo 4 needs a tone down. Duration needs to be restored and the Duration bonus needs to get like 20 or more seconds.

[dysturbed0ne]

Ashen Earth wrote...

This proposal is beyond stupid.

It addresses a fix for what BW is saying is a problem. They want less infiltrators and more diversity, seems to me the only way to accomplish that is to give less options for the over used class. The current changes only make you choose what kind of infiltrator you want to be, it doesn't push to to choose a different class, just a different infiltrator.

So given that, why is something that fixes the actual problem BEYOND stupid?

[Kronner]

dysturbed0ne wrote...
So given that, why is something that fixes the actual problem BEYOND stupid?

Because to kill the fox, you are apparently willing to kill all the hens too. In the end, what you did was pointless and silly.

[dysturbed0ne]

Kronner wrote...

dysturbed0ne wrote...
So given that, why is something that fixes the actual problem BEYOND stupid?

Because to kill the fox, you are apparently willing to kill all the hens too. In the end, what you did was pointless and silly.

Much like that analogy, but thanks for the input.

[intelligirl]

Why is everyone missing the point here? We SHOULD be saying "F--- BW, u gave me a variety of chars 2 play as, now let ME choose who 2 be!" They shouldn't be forcing us 2 try out other chars just coz a bunch of jealous, whiny babies cry about too many infiltrators in the game taking most of the kills. On gold, there should ALWAYS be at LEAST one on the team, especially now after everyone cried foul & called "nerf". I can't tell u how many times my infiltrator has clutched it 4 my team....but no ones complaining then! BW needs 2 keep their hands out of it, & just let us play what we want. I paid money 4 this game, just like the rest of u....I'm sorry I'm just better.

P.S. I play ALL classes BTW, coz I get bored easily. I'm just sick & tired of seeing all the whiners on these forums.

[landylan]

intelligirl wrote...

Why is everyone missing the point here? We SHOULD be saying "F--- BW, u gave me a variety of chars 2 play as, now let ME choose who 2 be!" They shouldn't be forcing us 2 try out other chars just coz a bunch of jealous, whiny babies cry about too many infiltrators in the game taking most of the kills. On gold, there should ALWAYS be at LEAST one on the team, especially now after everyone cried foul & called "nerf". I can't tell u how many times my infiltrator has clutched it 4 my team....but no ones complaining then! BW needs 2 keep their hands out of it, & just let us play what we want. I paid money 4 this game, just like the rest of u....I'm sorry I'm just better.

P.S. I play ALL classes BTW, coz I get bored easily. I'm just sick & tired of seeing all the whiners on these forums.

what are all these numbers code for???

just because you outscore someone with an infiltrator doesnt mean your better than them. it's not hard to do with an infiltrator. having the infiltrator be so overpowered is bad for the game in the long run.