86 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

SheffSteel wrote...

Everybody knows that necromancy is the new green.
Reduce, re-animate, recycle!

100% post-consumer Human.

[blazin130791]

yeah jaegar, kind of beat me to what i was going to say; if your PC is a blood mage but saves ferelden, helps lost kids, dosn't use allies, etc how are they evil?

[Sylvius the Mad]

blazin130791 wrote...

yeah jaegar, kind of beat me to what i was going to say; if your PC is a blood mage but saves ferelden, helps lost kids, dosn't use allies, etc how are they evil?

They're not evil, but they are reckless.

[Faithfully Deviant]

I also would like to point out. I think Jowan uses bloodmagic to stay young and pretty! I made a very old character for my first mage. And he still said "I've been here longer than you." I was all like. "What!? Really!? Looking good for your age." xD

[Fleapants]

JaegerBane wrote...
Secondly, essentially the whole aversion to blood magic in this game is down to the actions of the Tevinter Imperium. There is nothing specific to Blood Magic that means it's evil.

Except for the part about it being taught by demons..

[Maria Caliban]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

A lot of organized religions are opposed to anything being done to the dead, as it's considered a desecration of a holy vessel, i.e. the form made in their god's image and the former container of the soul.  I didn't think it such a stretch to believe the Chantry would feel the same way. 

The Chantry burns its dead.

[blazin130791]

"Except for the part about it being taught by demons.."



ok in the game you have ot learn it form demons but from a lore perspectivethe knowledge only came form demons and a blood mage could teach another mage blood magic. no demons.



also a couple of points why i think blood magic isn't evil -



the grey wardens are alowed to use it, not only allowed but do/have used it.



blood mages sometimes also summon demons, demons are evil and bad and to anyone in fereledn who didnt know about magic would seem the same thing.



in the game people seem to think if you use blood magic you will defintly become possesed, etc really his isnt thecase and is just propaganda to put people off. just like alot of the garbage about apostates.



i could go on but i feel super-geeky now lol

[Foxd1e]

OP Blood magic is very bad because it not only involves your blood but everyone else's blood as well. You can mind control them or make their blood boil and explode. Very nasty stuff that Blood Magic.

[Asylumer]

Fleapants wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Secondly, essentially the whole aversion to blood magic in this game is down to the actions of the Tevinter Imperium. There is nothing specific to Blood Magic that means it's evil.

Except for the part about it being taught by demons..

Being taught by single-minded entities controlled by their nature makes it evil? Demons are violent and dangerous, but so is fire. Most people don't call fire an evil thing when it is used in a manner they benefit from. Niether would rational people call for the ceasation of all fire usage because occassionally an arsonist gets a bright idea.

[bobsmyuncle]

I don't see anything inherently wrong in using blood magic, if it's your own blood. The spell to heal yourself by draining your allies? No way. Turning blood mode on to use your HP to cast fireball at that ogre? Knock yourself out, pal.

[The Angry One]

Technically phylactery tracking could count as blood magic.

Don't say it's not. You're casting spells on blood to track and control the person it belongs to. Sounds like blood magic to me.



As for Entropy, not only do you raise the dead, you can affect other's minds with it. The whole sleep/nightmare spell line specifically messes with people's minds and drives them insane by subjecting them to mental horror. Apparently that's okay with the Chantry though. Then again after hearing those chanting bozos in the Lothering Chantry I can see they know all about mental horror.



Turns out the Chantry is full of hypocrisy and lies. Surprise?

[bobsmyuncle]

The Angry One wrote...

Technically phylactery tracking could count as blood magic.
Don't say it's not. You're casting spells on blood to track and control the person it belongs to. Sounds like blood magic to me.

As for Entropy, not only do you raise the dead, you can affect other's minds with it. The whole sleep/nightmare spell line specifically messes with people's minds and drives them insane by subjecting them to mental horror. Apparently that's okay with the Chantry though. Then again after hearing those chanting bozos in the Lothering Chantry I can see they know all about mental horror.

Turns out the Chantry is full of hypocrisy and lies. Surprise?

Don't forget that it's wrong to use your blood to power your magic, but okay to take that magic energy directly from another mage. It's wrong to use blood magic to heal yourself, but okay to drain the life from someone else to heal yourself.

It's okay to be a walking nuke but by god if you get emo on them the templars will run you through.

[EmperorSahlertz]

To the Dark side - Blood Magic simile: The Dark side is not inherintly evil either, but so many people fall to the corruption of its power that it is simply not worth the risk. That is very much like blood magic. Blood magic is the quickest school of magic to master.



Blood magic is despised because of its manipulative power, not because of what it does (well perhaps also the means of its powers). All the other schools have little or no manipulative spells (I admit, 'waking nightmare' is borderline), but there is nothing subtle or manipulative about a fireball.



It is not like "normal magic" (if such a thing exists) isn't despised, its just that blood magic is more so, for the lack of required discipline and the amount of (potential) power.

[Vegielamb]

I was disappointed that there wasn't an option for a mage to freak out over the joining. My poor healer would have freaked out at the mention of collecting darkspawn blood because it's obviously a blood magic thing. After the tower fiasco, he's developed a zero tolerance policy towards blood magic.

I think he'll end up having nightmares after he discovers that ancient soul trapped in the phylactery.

Modifié par Vegielamb, 16 décembre 2009 - 01:06 .

[Skellimancer]

Necromancy is fine but Bloodmagic is forbidden.



Sounds about right. "Bring out your dead!"

[blazin130791]

"Except for the part about it being taught by demons.."



demons firs taught men blood magic but any blood mage could teach another mage blood magic.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The necromancy isn't bad in Thedas because it isn't believed that the soul of the reanimated is trapped in the shell, nor do you bind a demon within the corpse, you just reanimated an empty husk.



Blood Magic should be feared, not because the chantry says so, but because of the simple fact that it doesn't breed disciplined mages. The blood mage may easily become too powerful, and with his power would come pride and with his pride would come a pride demon, and because of his lack of training the Circle Incident would repeat itself, except there would be no templars to contain it this time.

[AntiChri5]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The necromancy isn't bad in Thedas because it isn't believed that the soul of the reanimated is trapped in the shell, nor do you bind a demon within the corpse, you just reanimated an empty husk.

Blood Magic should be feared, not because the chantry says so, but because of the simple fact that it doesn't breed disciplined mages. The blood mage may easily become too powerful, and with his power would come pride and with his pride would come a pride demon, and because of his lack of training the Circle Incident would repeat itself, except there would be no templars to contain it this time.

Undead are corpses possessed by demons (spirits). Codex is quite clear on this

[DeathWyrmNexus]

"Also lets note how the draining of another personan's health is also not that bad."



Anybody else facepalm at this?

[EmperorSahlertz]

AntiChri5 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The necromancy isn't bad in Thedas because it isn't believed that the soul of the reanimated is trapped in the shell, nor do you bind a demon within the corpse, you just reanimated an empty husk.

Blood Magic should be feared, not because the chantry says so, but because of the simple fact that it doesn't breed disciplined mages. The blood mage may easily become too powerful, and with his power would come pride and with his pride would come a pride demon, and because of his lack of training the Circle Incident would repeat itself, except there would be no templars to contain it this time.

Undead are corpses possessed by demons (spirits). Codex is quite clear on this

Yeah, but I was talking about the spell 'Reanimate Dead' which technically isn't the Thedas kind of undead, since it doesn't invovle a demon bound in a corpse, but simply an extension of the mages will.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Stabbing yourself....is baaaaad.



Sucking life from other people to replenish your own is....well, I guess that pretty much sucks too.



But fitting that Morrigan has it already learned the moment she joins you.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You can't really compare the resource of a school, to the effect of a spell from a certain school... Drain Life is bad (its magic after all) but there is no mind control, ritual sacrifice or demons invovled, so it is remotely tolerable.

[Baalzie]

Geesh People...
Magic involving blood doesn't make it blood magic...
Magic used ON or WITH blood isn't bloodmagic...
Magic POWERED with Blood is...
Kind of easy to see the difference right?
So no, the joining and phylactery tracking isn't bloodmagic, it's just magic on a vial of blood...

If all magic cast on blood would be bloodmagic, so would healingspells also be then... Doh!
Or are Your wounds and body void of blood?

And the SOLE reason the Chantry deems Bloodmagic as evil is that it can be used to directly control a persons actions... "Magic is to serve man never to control him!" Against the makers will, hence "evil":devil:

The populace is mainly believers in the Maker *humanity atleast* hence they believe in the Chantry's word...
And those who don't and know about bloodmagic might still see the danger it poses because You can DIRECTLY control EXACTLY what another person does, take over his mind, much like an abomination... 
That IS what an abomination does, controls the person(mage) via the use of a kind of Bloodmagic... *see Connor, and ofc the demons in Wardens Keep for more info*

While Other magic can render a person confused it never allows direct control of anothers' mind...

And Grey Wardens don't care much about "good" or "evil" they do whatever is necessary to stop a blight... At all costs... The end justifies the means... They also do not push for any specific belief system, be it the Maker, The Creators or Ancestors... They all keep whatever beliefs they had before they joined and noone cares a whitten....

"Good" and "evil" means totally different things to different people...
Ask a fanatic suicide bomber what his targets are and the answer is a fast and certain "Evil as satan himself only can dream of becoming!" Much the same as said would be targets would think and say about said fanatic... Lets not bring Real Life Politics and religions into a forum about games thanks...

Happy Gaming! :innocent:

[druidofwarp]

The Angry One wrote...

Technically phylactery tracking could count as blood magic.
Don't say it's not. You're casting spells on blood to track and control the person it belongs to. Sounds like blood magic to me.

As for Entropy, not only do you raise the dead, you can affect other's minds with it. The whole sleep/nightmare spell line specifically messes with people's minds and drives them insane by subjecting them to mental horror. Apparently that's okay with the Chantry though. Then again after hearing those chanting bozos in the Lothering Chantry I can see they know all about mental horror.

Turns out the Chantry is full of hypocrisy and lies. Surprise?

I suppose but you would only consider that blood magic if you were trying to fuel you're own argument that blood magic is fine. We dont exactly know how that tracking works, maybe templars use that blood to sense the presence of the apostate mage kind of like some magical bloodhound sense

Perhaps the Waking Nightmare line is acceptable because you influence peoples minds and do not actually control them. Like how police officers can scare and intimidate you into things but can't torture you for information. Its just a less extreme way of achieving the same goal and there is a line where you get to extreme and blood magic happens to be it for the people.

Plus you cannot ignore the whole cultural context everyone(mostly) is Andrastian and her greatest enemy was the Tevinter Imperium. What is their most defining feature? Blood Magic. So it naturally looks bad. Plus they used Blood Magic to invade the Golden City and create the darkspawn. You know the story. Sure you can say the chantry is a bunch of fools and liars but think about it. There are no records dating back to that era really other than the Chantry's so are we to ignore that one source for other peoples own imagined ideas because they simply do not approve of the Chantry. The worst you could reasonably do is take the story with a grain of salt, but understand that this cultural influence also plays a huge part in how people view blood magic.

And as for being hypocrites and liars, welcome to the real world very few(I cant think of any) organizations that profess morality are perfect. Governments for instance.

Edit: Dang it Emperor and Baalzie beat me to the punch hahahaha

Modifié par druidofwarp, 16 décembre 2009 - 02:07 .

[Obadiah]

I think Blood Magic is like the Dark Side of the Force (in the KotOR games). It's not inherently evil, but using it leads you down a path towards evil.

Look a Jowan - he's certainly not evil. Yet using Blood Magic put him on a path to send the love of his life to a mage prison, then poison Eamon and, in my first playthrough, kill most of the town of Redcliffe. And he did it all with the best of intentions!!!

I think it's kind of like modern day illicit narcotics.

Modifié par Obadiah, 16 décembre 2009 - 02:05 .