456 réponses à ce sujet

[Leisure Muffin]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

 ...we have internal playtests...

You must not be playing cerberus on gold.  And if you do, you are not beating them without serious missile spam.  Phantoms make cerberus as hard as the geth and the reapers, unless you are using one of the few powers/weapons equipped to deal with them.  (overload, GPS, Krysae)  Short of that, phantoms can be ridiculous.  I don't want to constantly use overload, and GPS.  And I refuse to use the Krysae.  Most other weapons are somewhat useless against phantoms. 

[mrwizeguy]

Achire wrote...

No. The business reason to keep continously buffing enemies is to make sure that a) people don't trivialize content and make a lot of in-game credits and to make the game more dependant on high level weapons and gear. The idea is to make buying packs with real money more attractive both because it's easier than doing Gold, and because you need to have better gear to play Gold in the first place.

A Platinum difficulty would have to give out more credits, making the microtransactions less attractive. And it would require testing and development time. A lose/lose for Bioware.

Eeeeexactly, all the rest is BS 

[Beliar86]

Air Quotes wrote...

Beliar86 wrote...

zipmeme.com/meme/160861

Seriously, if all the "make it easier" cries are listened to, it will ruin the game for anyone who wants a challenge.  Turn down the diffulculty if it's too hard or frustrating.  You can't turn it up past gold but you can turn it down.  It's unfair to all those who like a challenge.  It's not unfair to makes things harder for the high diffulculty because you can turn it down.  Understand ya selfish pricks?
 

Some people constantly confuse fair challenge and cheapness/fake difficulty. If I buff phantoms to one shot you everytime they see you? Instantly. Would that be a challenge? (actually come to think of it - they do that now, almost)

Or if I give Atlas 250k armor. So you would spend 15 minutes on each one spamming warp-throw in cover. Is that a challenge? 

Bugs fixes are fine, but those examples are irrelevant.  These guys go through the painstaking process of making it challenging, yet doable and balanced.  Complaining about the diffulcult setting being diffulcult is pretty asinine when it's something intended and not broken.

[joker_jack]

I would like to see the nemesis get a melee. Would be intresting if you get too close they use the but of their rifle like everyone else.

[Saradas85]

mmm this is unexpected..I would do this to rebalance Cerb units:

Nemesis:
- better AI (she walks around like mad but doesn't flee when you are close to her);
- slight buff to health/shield +15%
- decrease damage by 15% (because she breaks shields with one shot) but enable her to fire 3 shots with 1,5sec delay

Phantom:
- decrease palm cannon damage and range by 10% and make it a little bit less accurate, like 75%
- make her wait 2 seconds before attacking a player who just used a medigel

Atlas:
- walking speed +10%
- faster missile animation (when it assumes the firing position, it waits too much before firing the missile)

Trooper:
- faster speed +10%
- use more cover
- Health +25% (seriously, they are a joke to kill)
- limit the max number of grenades to 1 per trooper (it's probably like this already, idk)

Modifié par Saradas85, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:54 .

[DarkerCompanion]

Leisure Muffin wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

 ...we have internal playtests...

You must not be playing cerberus on gold.  And if you do, you are not beating them without serious missile spam.  Phantoms make cerberus as hard as the geth and the reapers, unless you are using one of the few powers/weapons equipped to deal with them.  (overload, GPS, Krysae)  Short of that, phantoms can be ridiculous.  I don't want to constantly use overload, and GPS.  And I refuse to use the Krysae.  Most other weapons are somewhat useless against phantoms. 

I use missiles on maybe 1 in 30 Gold matches.

I have no real issue with Phantoms on most high end classes. They are challenging, yes, and the Extraction is pretty rough, I admit, but with a decent team and solid characters, they can be handled.

Any Engineer except the Quarians are good for them.

Both Batarians are good against them.

Both Stasis Asari are good.

Infiltrators can snipe them pretty well, especially with multishot snipers.

Reavers are great as well.

Vorcha tear them up.

Tons of options.

[FlamboyantRoy]

 While we're at it. How about we buff the Geth? Maybe the Reapers? I think we should nerf player damage across the board as well as health/shields. Also, limit the players to only being able to use common/uncommon weapons. How about putting a time limit on every round? Say 1:30secs, if all enemies aren't cleared you either lose the equipment you brought, the enemies get buffed, or how about if the mission ends and your 15k/30k/75k credits gets taken away? If the player doesn't have enough credits, give them a negative balance with interest. 
You see? I've given you a more efficient way of getting more of those nice micro transactions you seem to love so much.It only requires honesty, something you've seemed to lack ever since you jumped in the sack with EA. 

Hell, you may even have time to actually fix bugs that have PLAGUED this game since it's inception. 



^^^ I'm extremely genuine. I believe that these changes would be absolutely fantastically amazing for your game, Bioware. 

Modifié par FlamboyantRoy, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:00 .

[Strict31]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We feel that Phantoms are in a good spot right now so we won't be changing them.

George Lucas said the same thing about Jar-Jar.

[Ninja Stan]

Hey, folks, this is a reminder that we can disagree with each other without resorting to insults and name-calling. Also, please remember that not everyone is as awesome as you are in multiplayer. Some people may be better, some may be worse, and not everyone plays every character the same way. Not everyone makes an ideal build or knows every last "winning" tactic in every area, or against every opponent.

So let's please remember that there are thousands of players in these forums, and BioWare wants to try and keep the game fun for as many of them as possible. Be excellent to each other.

[TehMerc]

Rather have bugs for geth and reapers get looked at first before deciding cerberus is too weak.

I don't care if someone's advice is to "stay away from banshees", seeing as if they perform a wall jump it's typically an insta grab. And seriously, screw rocket troopers and 2-3 missle spam.

[capn233]

Qeylis wrote...

Please, do tell.  Explain to us, oh great one, how one avoids the "Magnet" of a Banshee when they are 20 feet away?  Tell us, when they teleport right next to us, and we run before they start a melee, but they suck us in anyway?  Please, wize master, share your wisdom.

The Banshees cheat.  You can try to be as smart as possible, but if someone is cheating, you can't beat them.  They should be reported, and banned.

The banshee magnet hardly ever leads to a failure against Reapers.  At least not in and of itself.

Banshee has to have warped to near your position before she can initiate a sync kill.  I realize that with latency sometimes you think you managed to "get away" but that is just a result of the latency.  Banshee hops are basically in discreet intervals that now ignore line of sight completely.  If you stay out of her teleport range you should have plenty of time to run regardless of the latency.

This isn't rocket science and you don't have to be a master of the game to realize this.  It is pretty simple really.  If you were complaining that it is difficult to avoid the Banshee while dodging Marauder fire and Ravager fire, sure.  That is what actually makes the game worth playing.  But it doesn't make them some overly difficult faction.

Atheosis wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I have trouble comprehending why buffing Cerberus takes precedence over
buffing the two dozen underpowered and near useless weapons in this game.
...
They buff a couple weapons at a time, and often they buff weapons that don't even really need it or their buffs are just too small.  Meanwhile non-ultra rare AR's remain woeful week after week after week, and they're not the only ones.  

You used my favorite adjective for most of the AR's.   And I agree.

Modifié par capn233, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:12 .

[Permafrost27]

"You must not be playing cerberus on gold.  And if you do, you are not beating them without serious missile spam.  Phantoms make cerberus as hard as the geth and the reapers, unless you are using one of the few powers/weapons equipped to deal with them.  (overload, GPS, Krysae)  Short of that, phantoms can be ridiculous.  I don't want to constantly use overload, and GPS.  And I refuse to use the Krysae.  Most other weapons are somewhat useless against phantoms. "

^
quote

I respect your personal embargo of the Krysae; however I respectfully disagree with the remainder of your post.

The subtext of your post is that Phantoms are the primary, and perhaps only, reason Cerberus are not significantly easier than the other enemies, am I interpreting this correctly?

Here are my thoughts

1) Cerberus are almost completely non-threatening outside of Phantoms and turrets.
  1a) Turrets can be mostly mitigated by careful maneuvering, engineer killing, etc. Only really an issue on hack objectives or perhaps small maps.
  1b) Phantoms can be almost completely mitigated by a large variety of powers and weapons:

Powers- Stasis, Submission Net, Lash, Turrets with the "flamethrower" upgrade, Arc Grenades, Overload as mentioned, and finally Tac Cloak in combination with good aim or used defensively. 

Weapons-  GPS & Krysae as mentioned above, but also Falcon (will almost perma stagger them, even without use of cryo / disrupt ammo), Scorpion (brutal against phantoms if you have any facility with using it properly), and to a lesser degree Striker and Reegar.

If a player is finding Cerberus consistently harder than Geth and Reapers, the only conclusion I can reach is that they are only playing with a very narrow range of classes / weapons that simply aren't effective vs Phantoms.

Beyond that I find it incomprehensible that someone couldn't see Cerberus as the easiest by a significant margin.

For the record this is all in reference to playing on Gold, and on xbox 360.

Modifié par Permafrost27, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:09 .

[Master Xanthan]

Whatever you do, don't buff Phantoms or Turrets.

[d4rk fallen]

Great idea buff enemies that wont **** with the onslaught of bad players that try playing gold.

[Lee80]

Buffing the enemies again... I'm starting to suspect the balance changes are not to balance the game but to force average players to spend money on packs. This game is getting less and less fun in my book. Hard is not equal to fun to me. Fun is having a challenge that can be won without dumb luck or spending hours perfecting a game that you've already known how to play for weeks. Just my opinion on the subject.

[x Ted Manson x]

• I know Cerberus are the easiest. When I see them while playing Random Random Gold I know it is going to be easy. Does no matter which class I am playing as, just use your class and weapons right. The only thing difficult about Cerberus is the turrets. When I turn a corner and see a turret it is all over unless for some reason I am not the target, it does not fire, and gives me a small window to escape. Geth are really not a problem either and I really do not think Reapers are too hard either. The only thing hard about Geth is infinite stunlock by every enemy and the only thing hard about the Reapers is the Banshee tractor-beam insta-grab.
• Just use the right classes, mods and characters. I have failed numerous times with randoms because they want to use a Locust 2 and a Katana 2 vs the Reapers on Gold. Go figure. Or the people who want to use two extreamly heavy weapons on a class that is dependent on powers with horrendous cooldown times.
• I would rather enjoy a Platinum mode that is slightly harder all around and award over 100,000 credits for completing it. 75,000 credit Gold for a SP and a over 100,000 credit Platinum mode for the PSP. \\
• Overall Gold is only hard when you have randoms who do not know how to play gold or play as a team.

[Mgamerz]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

KrazyMF wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

What? OP Phantoms are not enough? Geth need a nerf. Actually not a nerf, but bug fixing! And till you fix those bugs you should nerf them.

Stop buffing enemies! Most of the weapons and some of the powers don't even cut it now! You're rapidly turning this game into a tedious chore to play.

This.

And also, Geth and Reapers are NOT neck and neck as far as difficulty. Your data is flawed from FBWGG spam, Geth are by far the most difficult.

I would rather do Reapers all day every day than end up against the Geth. The Geth are and exercise in frustration.

Also of note, I'm beyond bored with this game because of tedium, if you buff Cerberus to the point of Geth... and by that I mean buff Phantoms... I will just quit at this point. I'm tired of tedium and frustration associated with this game due to bugs and stupid cheap crap like a Phantom's magic palm cannon that is somehow more powerful than the Atlas' giant cannon that is as big as a player.

We have the ability to discount data from Firebase White. If we count FBW, then Geth are by far the easiest faction.

That's the guarantee that at the next patch they're going to fix Firebase White. YES! I hate getting thrown into FBWGG.

[Cyonan]

Lee80alabama wrote...

Buffing the enemies again... I'm starting to suspect the balance changes are not to balance the game but to force average players to spend money on packs. This game is getting less and less fun in my book. Hard is not equal to fun to me. Fun is having a challenge that can be won without dumb luck or spending hours perfecting a game that you've already known how to play for weeks. Just my opinion on the subject.

If hard isn't fun then you shouldn't be playing gold.

Some people do find hard to be fun, and some people don't. Neither of them are invalid opinions, and the reason we have difficulty levels is to accomodate different opinons on how hard the game should be.

[Lee80]

Cyonan wrote...

Lee80alabama wrote...

Buffing the enemies again... I'm starting to suspect the balance changes are not to balance the game but to force average players to spend money on packs. This game is getting less and less fun in my book. Hard is not equal to fun to me. Fun is having a challenge that can be won without dumb luck or spending hours perfecting a game that you've already known how to play for weeks. Just my opinion on the subject.

If hard isn't fun then you shouldn't be playing gold.

Some people do find hard to be fun, and some people don't. Neither of them are invalid opinions, and the reason we have difficulty levels is to accomodate different opinons on how hard the game should be.

But the game also has a credit system that forces you to play gold if you actually want to unlock things at a decent rate.  Thus forcing people who would normally be fine with playing on silver to play gold.  So you have to change the system or allow the game to be playable on gold by average players.  

[bendermac]

Ninja Stan wrote...

So let's please remember that there are thousands of players in these forums, and BioWare wants to try and keep the game fun for as many of them as possible. Be excellent to each other.

making geth increadibly annoying and unfair (stunlock just by looking at you) and now making cerberus harder is creating more fun for the masses?

we all can agree that the game needs certain fixes and buffs (looking at packs for example). i had more fun if certain weapons would be the way to go... if all weapons would be available to everyone, how would the load look like?

claymore
harrier
black widow
reager
hurricane
paladdin

all the other weapons are useless compared to these above... so buffing the weapons would be a good start or how about making a complete new store where i can by medgel as much as i want/need without the fear of buying stuff i don't need. e.g. 20,000 for 10 medgels or rockets, etc. or make a real weapon store so we can get the things we really want. that's what i liked about call of duty ranking up... you knew what you get and when you use it, it gets better... no we buy stupid packs that give you more crap then goodies. paying real money for something that wont give you anything you want is also another stupid thing... if you ask for real money, atleast give these person a true value... oh look, i paid $3 for a psp and what did i get? ammo and a character card YAY ... what dit you really want? a harrier or hurricane of course, silly question

i know we wont get a better store or better chances for the true goodies because bioware doesn't care. bugs wont be fixed we talk about months because bioware doesn't care. instead we get a weapon that ruined a certain class's reputation... now that is something... whoohoo <_<

[Edalborez]

Lee80alabama wrote...

But the game also has a credit system that forces you to play gold if you actually want to unlock things at a decent rate.  Thus forcing people who would normally be fine with playing on silver to play gold.  So you have to change the system or allow the game to be playable on gold by average players. 

You're still not forced to play on Gold. I play on Silver all the time, even though I could handle Gold.
You shouldn't feel forced to have to play a certain way. That's the tradeoff of difficulty-to-reward.

Modifié par Edalborez, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:28 .

[.458]

Air Quotes wrote...

Beliar86 wrote...

zipmeme.com/meme/160861

Seriously, if all the "make it easier" cries are listened to, it will ruin the game for anyone who wants a challenge.  Turn down the diffulculty if it's too hard or frustrating.  You can't turn it up past gold but you can turn it down.  It's unfair to all those who like a challenge.  It's not unfair to makes things harder for the high diffulculty because you can turn it down.  Understand ya selfish pricks?
 

Some people constantly confuse fair challenge and cheapness/fake difficulty. If I buff phantoms to one shot you everytime they see you? Instantly. Would that be a challenge? (actually come to think of it - they do that now, almost)

Or if I give Atlas 250k armor. So you would spend 15 minutes on each one spamming warp-throw in cover. Is that a challenge? 

Basically what I've said in many places, e.g.:
http://social.biowar...9181/2#12950278

Difficulty and challenge do not always work hand in hand. Too difficult, it becomes work instead of fun, and repetitive. Too easy, there is no achievement. We need brain food, not a panicked-fast left click for the mouse. This is one of the biggest reasons why multiplayer balance requires something far different than nerfing and making ultra rares easier to get. Plus Bioware has the maps already...we have the citadel, we have illusive man's base, we have mars, we have the academy, we have a lot of places. Pretty much every map we use now is far bigger and far more potential than we are using...see these:

NOTE: I'd post these as links or images, but the forum seems to have bugs preventing this.

http://postimage.org/image/jxr8sqebz/

http://postimage.org/image/77n0fn6dr/

http://postimage.org/image/8b74rlr0v/

http://postimage.org/image/swlwji8lr/

http://postimage.org/image/ptl6g4tn3/


If you look at those screen shots, you'll see firebase ghost is huge...other than some far away items, this base is both vertically and horizontally functional and 3D. Imagine if the ladders going up or down were put in place to replace extraction?

Firebase White has vertical extents above the base which the enemy often jumps down from...imagine if we could go to those locations?

Firebase Giant has real estate up above; no screen shot showing it, but near the lower ammo crate, you can see an entire huge garage.

Firebase Jade has many vertical levels not even open, along with entire buildings we can't reach. Single player made a lot more available...imagine retaking it, rather than sitting around shooting at things in close range and never leaving.

Firebase Glacier is even more interesting...have you ever looked through the windows of side rooms? Have you ever noticed that right at the LZ there are stairs which go down much further? This base is fascinating and huge.

If you have ever had that vertical coordinate glitch where you start jumping up and down above and below the base, you'll find several of them are just about an entire city, and more than decal art...meaning that if you had access, the map actually goes there. Firebase Ghost is the best example.

So the maps are already there...they are functional. Some of them have much greater access in single player, and are already capable of pretty much unmodified use. Does this not tempt your exploration curiosity? Can you imagine the goals and how much more fun they would be? Does anyone really think a bit of tweaking to balance through weapon nerf or weapon buff would compete with this? Even if the maps were opened further, balance could still be continued, this would not interfere. But a single map could be as fun as all the maps put together right now. And teams could be forced through both tight spaces with melee and assault troop requirements, as well as long range sniper requirements...teams could mean something. Extraction could mean something...what if rewards go up for each section completed?

Modifié par .458, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:43 .

[Lee80]

Edalborez wrote...

Lee80alabama wrote...

But the game also has a credit system that forces you to play gold if you actually want to unlock things at a decent rate.  Thus forcing people who would normally be fine with playing on silver to play gold.  So you have to change the system or allow the game to be playable on gold by average players. 

You're still not forced to play on Gold. I play on Silver all the time, even though I could handle Gold.
You shouldn't feel forced to have to play a certain way.

I agree, but the system is what it is.  You either play gold, or you get left behind by the other players playing on gold.  I like playing gold though, but I don't think the average players are going to be able to hang in there much longer given these enemy buffs and nerfs to player powers.  

[RecoonHoodie]

RageBattle wrote...

I do think Guardians and Nemesis' need to be tweaked, but the rest is pretty decent, although Phantoms could use a nerf somewhere... they just have too many abilities that are all dangerous.

Geth are the most predictable enemy, they have smallest diversity in units, but also probably have the least fair and bugged ones at the same time. I'm not sure if the intention of heavy stunlock is to go hand in hand with their relatively easy attack pattern, but Geth need to be looked at besides simple number changes.

I like Reapers, and I think most of the attention should be focused on Banshees. I don't think they should be harder to take down than a Brute except for if she's teleporting and no one can simply hit her. The synch kills from her are ridiculous and have randomly crippled good teams. Her warp can also phase through walls fairly often, and she often goes through walls too, and usually kills you right there.

Absolutely agree. With you. I always wondered how the big bad and powerful being that is the brute (turian+krogan in one come on) has less  armor than a 3m ardat yakshi with biotic charge? Its absolutely stupid. Banshee needs a little barier buff (she is biotic  after all) , armor nerf.(as i said: simple ardat yakshi but more higher than the usual ones) Maybe 12 000 barier and 6000 armor? The brute needs a huge armor buff because krogan and turian melted in one is some serious sh... maybe 18000 armor?

For cerberus. Guardians need a little more hp. Lets say 2000 (thats 400 more). Nemesis needs more shields something like 2000. And a big health buff fore the troopers
2000 or 2200. Phantom hand cannon fire rate should be decreased. Atlas moving speed increased by 10%. Combat enginner a slight health nerf. Turet gets buffed for that.3025 armor and shields.

Geth hunter/rocket troopers/primes stagger decreased by big percent. Geth turret damage nerfed a lot. Prime shields increased a bit (in the menu is said that geth rely heavily on shields). 

(My first big post holy sh...)

[Fox-snipe]

All I know is I better still be able to one-shot-headshot kill Troopers and ideally the same (just barely) with Centurions on silver while cloaked. Bad enough grenades seem to no longer reliably beep and the smoke is out of control.