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Does Synthesis brainwash everyone?


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#1
RadicalDisconnect

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The brainwashing argument is a very common against synthesis. Although I have my own reasons to dislike synthesis, this is not one of them. However, I would like to actually see the evidence and the analysis of the evidence to convince me that the argument is valid. Anyone care do an actual explanation?

EDIT2: I'll try to address some of the common arguments for brainwashing, and will try to offer my counter-arguments, although both are speculations. Your mileage may vary with these, of course.

People accepted the Reapers as friendly!
The same can be said about control. It was never stated that people instantly accepted the reapers.

It has been mentioned that there might've been one version of synthesis where EDI mentions that it took time for people to accept the reapers, but I haven't found it yet. If anyone can prove or disprove this, let me know.

Fellow BSN user Endorlf gave his thoughts on this. It was never stated that people happily accepted the Reapers. How they were received is a matter of speculation, but why not see it as people begrudgingly accepting the Reaper's help? History has shown that people are willing to make allies with people they don't like to overcome an obstacle.

In addition, if synthesis does brainwash everyone, then why are the Reapers helping to rebuild? We're not seeing concentration camps or barracks that you would build for slaves and servants; instead, buildings are being built such that the architectural culture is preserved. How does this forward the Reapers' agenda at all if they brainwashed everyone?

No one was going WTF at how they changed!
On the contrary, if you compare the scenes where the reapers leave/die, only in synthesis do the soldiers not cheer; instead, they look surprised at what just happened to them and were looking at themselves and each other.

They look brainwashed!
This is one argument I can't stand. The slideshow for synthesis looks almost identical to those of destroy and control.

The husk is alive!
I have a theory in another thread that addresses this. Link is below. The gist of it is that the husks are simply extensions of a reaper's mind, and it is looking at the human soldiers and at itself, surprised at the change, and maybe surprised that it's no longer under the will of the Catalyst (this part is my speculation). 
http://social.biowar.../index/12881793 

On an unrelated note, synthesis makes everyone the same!
The turians are still turian, the krogan are still krogan. Hell, ironically, it's the ending slides across all three endings that are largely the same. I see the stagnation argument a lot, and while it has merit, the synthesis narration seems to counter this by stating that the races will "recover the greatness that as lost and surpass it." How? I don't know. Considering how much of a space magic nonsense synthesis is, anything is possible.

For the record, this is my opinion on synthesis. I despise it because it is theme and lore breaking. It is contradictory and jumps into fairy tale fantasy that transcends all realistic norms. It imposes major change on every individual with unknown effects. This is ethically wrong. However, there isn't any irrefutable in-game evidence that proves it brainwashes people. Arguments against brainwashing also has merit.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 22 août 2012 - 06:28 .


#2
The Heretic of Time

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Does EDI sound like she's brainwashed in synthesis? Does your crew look brainwashed in synthesis?

Seriously, where does this moronic argument come from anyway? Where does the synthesis ending imply that everyone gets brainwashed? It doesn't.

#3
legion999

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If Synthesis is to stop all conflict between organics and synthetics it would need to.

#4
Biotic Flash Kick

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if everyone is not brainwashed then there will be disharmony and war
or the creation of synthetic life

#5
D24O

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Headcanon.

#6
RadicalDisconnect

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legion999 wrote...

If Synthesis is to stop all conflict between organics and synthetics it would need to.


I see this a lot. Please explain.

#7
MisterJB

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There is not a shread of evidence that points towards any brainwash.

#8
Grimwick

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Does EDI sound like she's brainwashed in synthesis? Does your crew look brainwashed in synthesis?

Seriously, where does this moronic argument come from anyway? Where does the synthesis ending imply that everyone gets brainwashed? It doesn't.


They look brainwashed to me. 

Why are there husks walking around? It's obvious they all became reaper slaves.

On a more serious note brainwashing is the only valid method of making synthesis work - otherwise it is even more nonsense piled on nonsense.

#9
BatmanPWNS

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Okay, how does Synthesis even stop conflict? Does it suddenly make people go "I love everyone and hate violence!". If that's true then, wow, talk about disney. The only option I see is that people are brainwashed into accepting peace because there is no way that aliens, especially humans, would all just randomly accept each other even after become half synthetic/organic.

Edit: Plus Javik clearly hates synthetics and wants them gone. Yet, in the ending, why the hell is he smiling and all happy about it?

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 03 juillet 2012 - 09:25 .


#10
Jamie9

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The same thought process that resulted in the allied fleets dieing of starvation.

#11
Jamie9

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BatmanPWNS wrote...

Okay, how does Synthesis even stop conflict? Does it suddenly make people go "I love everyone and hate violence!". If that's true then, wow, talk about disney. The only option I see is that people are brainwashed into accepting peace because there is no way that aliens, especially humans, would all just randomly accept each other even after become half synthetic/organic.


They can all join Consensus. Meaning they can see each other's point of view - there would then be no reason to murder each other.

Arguments still? Yes.

#12
RadicalDisconnect

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BatmanPWNS wrote...

Okay, how does Synthesis even stop conflict? Does it suddenly make people go "I love everyone and hate violence!". If that's true then, wow, talk about disney. The only option I see is that people are brainwashed into accepting peace because there is no way that aliens, especially humans, would all just randomly accept each other even after become half synthetic/organic.


Are you basing this on the ending monologue, or the slideshow? How would you explain that the other endings have almost identical slideshows then?

#13
MisterJB

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legion999 wrote...

If Synthesis is to stop all conflict between organics and synthetics it would need to.

If asked directly, the Catalyst will not guarantee there will be peace. EDI states more than once how everyone is free to follow their own wishes and how there is a chance for peace.
Synthesis takes the first steps towards lasting peace but it is still up to sentients to follow through or not.

#14
clennon8

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Because pretty much every utopia story ever.

#15
Grimwick

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Jamie9 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Okay, how does Synthesis even stop conflict? Does it suddenly make people go "I love everyone and hate violence!". If that's true then, wow, talk about disney. The only option I see is that people are brainwashed into accepting peace because there is no way that aliens, especially humans, would all just randomly accept each other even after become half synthetic/organic.


They can all join Consensus. Meaning they can see each other's point of view - there would then be no reason to murder each other.

Arguments still? Yes.


That makes no sense.

#16
shodiswe

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I think the comment commes from people who disliked all endings and want a refusal victory unlike a refusal where you die like Hitler in his bunker while everyone dies around you because you can't make the big decissions needed to save people.. Pride is the villain behind that crime.
You let every last man, woman and child die just so you don't have to give up to the enemy.

People want a clean victory, putting a bullet in the head of their enemy, when that doesn't happen they get upset. Compromises arn't very popular. The ending requiers a little bit of compromising to save people. I think this has made the ending very hard to sell.

#17
Ryzaki

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Jamie9 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Okay, how does Synthesis even stop conflict? Does it suddenly make people go "I love everyone and hate violence!". If that's true then, wow, talk about disney. The only option I see is that people are brainwashed into accepting peace because there is no way that aliens, especially humans, would all just randomly accept each other even after become half synthetic/organic.


They can all join Consensus. Meaning they can see each other's point of view - there would then be no reason to murder each other.

Arguments still? Yes.


Hi there heretic geth attempting to brainwash other geth into following them and other geth deciding to destroy them in response to protect themselves. (or brainwash them back. Regardless they accept blowing them up as a solution).

#18
RadicalDisconnect

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clennon8 wrote...

Because pretty much every utopia story ever.


Utopia == inhabitants are brainwashed? This is a common theme in fiction, but it's not absolute.

Damnit, people, give more thorough explanations!

#19
The Heretic of Time

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Grimwick wrote...

brainwashing is the only valid method of making synthesis work - otherwise it is even more nonsense piled on nonsense.


Not true.

#20
v TricKy v

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So how do people forgive the Reapers who just slaughtered their familys?
People are brainwashed
Bioware has horrible writing
Pick one

#21
RadicalDisconnect

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v TricKy v wrote...

So how do people forgive the Reapers who just slaughtered their familys?
People are brainwashed
Bioware has horrible writing
Pick one


I would pick horrible writing, although I can see that it can encompass the "brainwash" argument.

#22
The Heretic of Time

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v TricKy v wrote...

So how do people forgive the Reapers who just slaughtered their familys?
People are brainwashed
Bioware has horrible writing
Pick one


BioWare has horrible writers, obviously.

#23
shodiswe

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v TricKy v wrote...

So how do people forgive the Reapers who just slaughtered their familys?
People are brainwashed
Bioware has horrible writing
Pick one


They do so by understanding the situation, not because they are forced to but because they see the tragedy of it.

#24
MisterJB

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v TricKy v wrote...

So how do people forgive the Reapers who just slaughtered their familys?
People are brainwashed
Bioware has horrible writing
Pick one

Destroy doesn't show resentment against the salarians for not participating in the war.
Should we assume people were brainwashed or that Bioware simply wanted to leave bleakness out of all the endings after the outrage over the original ones?

#25
Grimwick

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

brainwashing is the only valid method of making synthesis work - otherwise it is even more nonsense piled on nonsense.


Not true.


Justified through space magic?

They also look brainwashed to me, they don't have any different opinions.