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Reasons why Refusal is the right ending. "Die free!"


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#1
Khajiit Jzargo

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I would like to argue the Top 5 arguments against Refusal, lets begin.

 1-You committed a greater genocide if you choose to refuse
rather than just killing all the Geth if you choose destroy.


The Galaxy agreed to fight the Reapers or die trying; if we
refuse the catalyst options we are continuing to fight them. If the Japanese
wouldn’t have surrendered in WW2, and they would have been wiped out, would
their world leaders be accused for Genocide? No, it would just be that Japan
lost the war. Same thing if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.


2-Sacrifices must be made to win the war, whether it’s
controlling the reapers, synthesis, or destroying the Geth.


    True, sacrifices
must be made, but some things are something’s are some despicably wrong that
shouldn’t be done. During the whole events of ME3, you are in a constant argument
with TIM saying controlling the Reapers are wrong, you saw all the innocent
people who died by Cerberus because they wanted to control the Reapers, and
unless you meta-game it seems fishy that the Catalyst would just let you
control him, so why choose Control if it contradicts and betrays everything you
fought for in ME3. Synthesis is again a betrayal for everyone who fought to
defeat the Reapers, all the people who died, all the families separated, no one
agreed to co-exist with the Reapers, we agreed to destroy them, synthesis is
wrong. Now there will always be casualties in war, but no one agreed to be sold
in order to win the war, furthermore committing genocide just for the fact to
ensure victory in the war because you’re afraid of extinction compromises the
agreement the galaxy agreed to, win this war together.

 


3- If you choose refusal, the next cycle uses the Crucible
anyway, so what’s the point?


You don’t know that unless you Metagame, there is still no
conformation if they use it or not, it just shows Liara passing down the plans
and you don’t know what they choose, whether more options arrived, and the circumstances
on how their war was.

 


4-People who choose refusal are cowards and are too afraid
to make tough decisions.


We’re not cowards, were sticking truth to what the Mass
Effect series has been about, overcoming challenges against all odds in our
terms. And I have still to comprehend how refusing the catalyst and continuing
to fight is cowardly. If you make a choice because you’re afraid of what might
happen if you don’t is cowardly like many people do.


5-Why pour all the resources and waste all the efforts
people have put into by not using the crucible.

As a YouTuber, MrBtongue said, the story of the Crucible is
flawed and stupid, but when our cycle built it was to defeat the Reapers but
not at the cost of Genocide, or to control or co-exist with the Reapers, as an
united Galaxy by the end of ME3, I think we would rather all die than sell
someone out now, or betray everything we fought for.


Those are my explanations, if you find anything wrong with them, please tell me what it is. If your going to act ignorant or give some stupid obtuse explanation, or repeat the same thing which I just argued by just repeating the question, please don't say anything at all. Thank you.

PS-Sorry for formatting, copy and pasted from Microsoft Word.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:29 .


#2
JShepppp

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I think the main problem is not with the ending, its supporters, or its ideals, but those who say that it is the "right" ending and try to force their view on everyone else because they are "clearly" right and they're the only ones who understand the "true" mass effect themes.

Just saying.

Modifié par JShepppp, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .


#3
D24O

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Gooby pls, there is still so much room for interpretation that any ending can be the "right" or the "best."

#4
krukow

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Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

#5
Fauxnormal

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6- I'm desperately trying to justify my troll logic and metagaming RAEG at Bioware for not giving me the ending I DESERVE!!!!111ONE!

#6
DEATHSCOPE

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Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.

#7
Khajiit Jzargo

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krukow wrote...

Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

Read the Thread.

#8
Fauxnormal

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Don't bother arguing with it.It and all others like don't actually have a leg to stand on.

#9
Khajiit Jzargo

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DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.

I tried to imply that if they were to start losing the war, and had not surrendered.

#10
Aaleel

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If the Catalyst had never walked out, everyone would have used the crucible, not knowing how it worked or what it would do. Willing to accept whatever consequences came out of it. Something worse than any of the choices could have happened, and people were willing to live with it.

So at what point did things from I'm willing to accept whatever happens to nothing bad can happen I need to be able to sleep at night?

#11
Khajiit Jzargo

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Fauxnormal wrote...

6- I'm desperately trying to justify my troll logic and metagaming RAEG at Bioware for not giving me the ending I DESERVE!!!!111ONE!

Thats complete ignorance and stupidity, you obviously are to idiotic to engage in a conversation so i'll leave you to it.

#12
Khajiit Jzargo

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Aaleel wrote...

If the Catalyst had never walked out, everyone would have used the crucible, not knowing how it worked or what it would do. Willing to accept whatever consequences came out of it. Something worse than any of the choices could have happened, and people were willing to live with it.

So at what point did things from I'm willing to accept whatever happens to nothing bad can happen I need to be able to sleep at night?

That's beside the point, you did know, and knew its consequences.

#13
Fauxnormal

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

6- I'm desperately trying to justify my troll logic and metagaming RAEG at Bioware for not giving me the ending I DESERVE!!!!111ONE!

Thats complete ignorance and stupidity, you obviously are to idiotic to engage in a conversation so i'll leave you to it.


Thanks for proving me right. name calling and foot stamping. Bravo.

#14
krukow

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

krukow wrote...

Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

Read the Thread.


I did, but fine.  If the themes of ME have been about overcoming all obstacles on your terms, then I assume you wanted Kaidan or Ashely to die on Virmire right?  Those were your terms?  BRILLIANT!

You let everyone die because you don't want to kill EDI.  Who dies anyways.  Good job.

#15
Hackulator

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.


So What you're saying is, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will launch a nuclear missile at a country wiping them out, I have committed genocide if I push that button.

HOWEVER, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will STOP a nuclear missile from being fired at a country and wiping them out, and I don't push the button, I have done nothing wrong?

I hope you're like, 9, which is before the point in mental development when your morals have fully formed.

Modifié par Hackulator, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:43 .


#16
Fauxnormal

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krukow wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

krukow wrote...

Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

Read the Thread.


I did, but fine.  If the themes of ME have been about overcoming all obstacles on your terms, then I assume you wanted Kaidan or Ashely to die on Virmire right?  Those were your terms?  BRILLIANT!

You let everyone die because you don't want to kill EDI.  Who dies anyways.  Good job.


Troll logic. :P

#17
Tigerman123

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Spacer Shepard's mother gets turned into a husk in reject

How could you do that?

#18
Fauxnormal

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Hackulator wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.


So What you're saying is, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will launch a nuclear missile at a country wiping them out, I have committed genocide if I push that button.

HOWEVER, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will STOP a nuclear missile from being fired at a country and wiping them out, and I don't push the button, I have done nothing wrong?

I hope you're like, 9, which is before the point in mental development when your morals have fully formed.


MAOR TROLL LOGIC!

Edit: That wasn't directed to you, hackulator.

Modifié par Fauxnormal, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:45 .


#19
DEATHSCOPE

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.

I tried to imply that if they were to start losing the war, and had not surrendered.


Yeah and I'm saying that you cannot make an analogy between the two because they are totally different. One is fighting a war that you know you will come out of it with some of your people still alive, the other is organic extermination.

#20
Khajiit Jzargo

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Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

6- I'm desperately trying to justify my troll logic and metagaming RAEG at Bioware for not giving me the ending I DESERVE!!!!111ONE!

Thats complete ignorance and stupidity, you obviously are to idiotic to engage in a conversation so i'll leave you to it.


Thanks for proving me right. name calling and foot stamping. Bravo.

What point? I never argued about about BW not giving me the ending I wanted, didn't argue against metagaming, and your calling my logic stupid with no defense, the ball is it your yard.

#21
krukow

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Fauxnormal wrote...

krukow wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

krukow wrote...

Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

Read the Thread.


I did, but fine.  If the themes of ME have been about overcoming all obstacles on your terms, then I assume you wanted Kaidan or Ashely to die on Virmire right?  Those were your terms?  BRILLIANT!

You let everyone die because you don't want to kill EDI.  Who dies anyways.  Good job.


Troll logic. :P


How so?  The OP claims that Mass Effect is about achieving your goals on your terms, I point out a canonical time when you could not achieve your goals on your terms (unless said result was your terms) and where sacrifice was required.
I then compare this to the OP allowing everyone to die because they don't want to kill EDI (And the geth too, fine), who will both die anyways.

Basically, reject is the action of a coward who is afraid of tough choices, and not at all in line with the Shep who left Ash or Kaidan to die.  After all, if you're so principled, should you not have tried to rescue them and got blown up too?

#22
Khajiit Jzargo

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DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.

I tried to imply that if they were to start losing the war, and had not surrendered.


Yeah and I'm saying that you cannot make an analogy between the two because they are totally different. One is fighting a war that you know you will come out of it with some of your people still alive, the other is organic extermination.

You just made an analogy that was just as stupid, and I can give you an analogy that people had rather all died than to submit, can you think one on your own or do you need me to write it for you?

#23
Fauxnormal

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

6- I'm desperately trying to justify my troll logic and metagaming RAEG at Bioware for not giving me the ending I DESERVE!!!!111ONE!

Thats complete ignorance and stupidity, you obviously are to idiotic to engage in a conversation so i'll leave you to it.


Thanks for proving me right. name calling and foot stamping. Bravo.

What point? I never argued about about BW not giving me the ending I wanted, didn't argue against metagaming, and your calling my logic stupid with no defense, the ball is it your yard.


And it will stay there. Because there is no non-metagaming, non whiny BIOWARE DIDN'T GIVE ME MY HAPPY ENDING reason for choosing reject. NONE.

Every single 'explination' is so backasswards and stupid it would only make sense if you can understand- wait for it- TROLL LOGIC.

#24
Fauxnormal

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.

I tried to imply that if they were to start losing the war, and had not surrendered.


Yeah and I'm saying that you cannot make an analogy between the two because they are totally different. One is fighting a war that you know you will come out of it with some of your people still alive, the other is organic extermination.

You just made an analogy that was just as stupid, and I can give you an analogy that people had rather all died than to submit, can you think one on your own or do you need me to write it for you?


TROLLLLLL L LOOOOGGGIIIICCCC.  /confetti.

#25
Khajiit Jzargo

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krukow wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

krukow wrote...

Sweet, everyone else dies because you don't want to kill Joker's girlfriend.

Who still dies anyways.

Read the Thread.


I did, but fine.  If the themes of ME have been about overcoming all obstacles on your terms, then I assume you wanted Kaidan or Ashely to die on Virmire right?  Those were your terms?  BRILLIANT!

You let everyone die because you don't want to kill EDI.  Who dies anyways.  Good job.

Your comparing the death of one person and 1.5 billion geth, it doesn't make sense, and apperently you don't know the geth died.