861 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Fauxnormal wrote...
Here's a tip: You have no idea! Every option has 'possible' downsides. Destory? Might not stop anything at all. Control? Shepard might go insane and kill everyone. Syth? Yeah, MAYBE (highly unlikely) they were changed mentally. (Highly unlikely.)

At least they're alive. And you didn't. You know. End the ****ing galexy.

Cute, though!

Your butthurt is very obvious!

*facepalms*

Oh for pete's sake. I've argued the downside of every single ending CONSTANTLY unlike you I have no problems pointing out the bad sides to the endings I prefer.

High unlikely? That's a lark. You keep thinking that.

And no the Reapers don't end the galaxy they simply reap as they did every 50k years leaving the less advanced civilization to later flourish. But you know what? I'm going to be the more mature person here and walk away.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:12 .

[dweller]

Fauxnormal wrote...

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.

Again your logic is that the right ending is the one that lets you live, why didn't you choose control then?

Because I want the galaxy to choose its own way instead of imposing my faulty logic upon them, and control's reaper police and synthesis's cyborgs don't allow that.

So choose destory. I have picked all three choices and have no problem with any of them but the massive, pathetic, cowardly, stupid, inane copout that is refuse.

I DID choose destroy ^^

[Fauxnormal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

awww, butthurt kid is butthurt.

You blew up everyone, princess. There's no reason you can ever offer me that will make that okay.

Aww...are you still mad that someone choose another choice? Poor baby. It must hurt that people think differently than you do. Tut tut.

And no actually bucko. The Reapers did that. Shep fought and lost.

Actually, no. Synth? I'm cool with that. Control? I'm cool with that. Destory? I'm the most cool with that.

Awww, are you still mad that you have no logical defense for killing every living thing? Poor baby. It must hurt that people call you out on your BS.

No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

[legion999]

Eluril wrote... 

The Crucible gives you the power, NOT the Catalyst. Repeat after me: Shepard has all the power at the end of the game. The Catalyst is powerless and simply communicating to Shepard. YOU have the power through the Crucible.

Wrong. In refuse the Catalyst shuts the Crucible off. If you held the power you could force the Catalyst to ceasefire.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.

Again your logic is that the right ending is the one that lets you live, why didn't you choose control then?

Because I want the galaxy to choose its own way instead of imposing my faulty logic upon them, and control's reaper police and synthesis's cyborgs don't allow that. Since you couldn't ask them what they wanted and cast a vote to find out, your best bet (if you were reasonable) would be Destroy, and there is really nothing to debate here.

In every ending your imposing faulty logic......

[Fauxnormal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...
Here's a tip: You have no idea! Every option has 'possible' downsides. Destory? Might not stop anything at all. Control? Shepard might go insane and kill everyone. Syth? Yeah, MAYBE (highly unlikely) they were changed mentally. (Highly unlikely.)

At least they're alive. And you didn't. You know. End the ****ing galexy.

Cute, though!

Your butthurt is very obvious!

*facepalms*

Oh for pete's sake. I've argued the downside of every single ending CONSTANTLY unlike you I have no problems pointing out the bad sides to the endings I prefer.

High unlikely? That's a lark. You keep thinking that.

And no the Reapers end the galaxy. But you know what? I'm going to be the more mature person here and walk away.

Neither do I.

But there is no good side to refuse. Period.

I do think it's highly unlikely. Possible? It is. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

And yes. YOU end the galaxy. YOU. But by all means, shuck the blame. You people who choose refuse have to.

[Scott2998]

Wait, time out. I watch a lot of History Channel, but I must have missed the episode where they explained how Hitler had the fate of the galaxy in his hands.

[Ryzaki]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
In every ending your imposing faulty logic......

Sadly true.

Destroy's at least the logic that would be more acceptable to the galaxy though. Poor geth though.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Fauxnormal wrote...

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.

Again your logic is that the right ending is the one that lets you live, why didn't you choose control then?

Because I want the galaxy to choose its own way instead of imposing my faulty logic upon them, and control's reaper police and synthesis's cyborgs don't allow that.

So choose destory. I have picked all three choices and have no problem with any of them but the massive, pathetic, cowardly, stupid, inane copout that is refuse.

aww butthurt.

[Esquin]

Eluril wrote...

Esquin wrote...

Eluril wrote...

It is also heavily implied that the future cycle was able to perfect the Crucible (meaning having it target and destroy just the Reapers, leaving everything else intact.) To me the question Refusers answer positively that I answer negatively is "Is losing everything we (civilization) have now to beat them perfectly in the future acceptable?"

That isn't the question.

The question is "Can we trust that the choices being offered are for real. Or are they a reaper trap."

The answer is that they have to be assumed to be a reaper trap. 

Indoctrination AGAIN!!!!????!!!! It's over guys. Get over it.

The Crucible gives you the power, NOT the Catalyst. Repeat after me: Shepard has all the power at the end of the game. The Catalyst is powerless and simply communicating to Shepard. YOU have the power through the Crucible.

This has nothing to do with indoctrination. Indoctrination is ridiculous and always was.

This is about them lying to manipulate a situation. If the crucible gave us the power then why would we need the catalyst to give us our choices and offer us that power. 

By choosing the crucible you're playing right into the catalysts hands. We don't even know who designed the crucible, for all we know it was the reapers themselves. 

But hey, if you want to trust the genocidal AI that want's nothing more than to eliminate all advanced organic life then go right ahead. I personally have a tendancy to be wary of AI's that have been trying to exterminate all life for 3 games.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

Without using anything that happens in after your final choice i'd like you to prove that what the catalyst tells you about the crucible is the truth. Keeping in mind that nothing the catalyst says can be trusted since it is a reaper.

Go.

I never said that I trusted the Catalyst nor think what it was saying was true. I used the Crucible on a gamble. Did you even read my post? It was either the Catalyst is lying, in which we would lose. Or it was telling the truth, in which we would win. 50% chance.

Refusal is stepping away from that, in which you would have a 0% chance of winning since beating the Reapers can't be done conventionally.

They can be. I for one am curious as to what would happen is we just destroy the citadel. There's a damn good chance that it would have a major impact on reaper forces. And even if it doesn't I for one would rather give the next cycle a chance (and a damn good one if they're not idiots about it). Because the fact of it is that if we listen to the crucible the chances of us lossing are very high (no hindsight. Just to remind you.) But the difference is in how we loss. For all we know using the crucible will ruin any hope we have to giving victory to the next cycle.

Using my own headcanon as a rebuttal, the Reapers can rebuild the Citadel easily. But now that they know that organics may be able to destroy them, what's to stop them from shortening the cycle from 50,000 years to 25,000? This cycle among the hundreds is the first one to able to succeed where other cycles failed. The Catalyst did say that Shepard is the first organic to ever come face to face with him ever since the reaping began.

[Eluril]

legion999 wrote...

Eluril wrote... 

The Crucible gives you the power, NOT the Catalyst. Repeat after me: Shepard has all the power at the end of the game. The Catalyst is powerless and simply communicating to Shepard. YOU have the power through the Crucible.

Wrong. In refuse the Catalyst shuts the Crucible off. If you held the power you could force the Catalyst to ceasefire.

No that's not within the power of the Crucible. It is designed to unleash massive energy, not the type to simply target and shut down the Catalyst. In addition, Catalyst shuts down the Crucible BECAUSE you chose not to choose. It is a respectable and debatable choice, but you still made it.

[legion999]

Fauxnormal wrote....
No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

Really? Did Shepard kill each and every person? You sure that wasn't the Reapers snd the Catalyst?

[SMichelle]

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...


Are we allowing Hitler into ending arguments now? How can I defend myself against these comparisons?

It's Godwin's Law.  C'mon you had to know it would happen sooner or later.

[Fauxnormal]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.

Again your logic is that the right ending is the one that lets you live, why didn't you choose control then?

Because I want the galaxy to choose its own way instead of imposing my faulty logic upon them, and control's reaper police and synthesis's cyborgs don't allow that.

So choose destory. I have picked all three choices and have no problem with any of them but the massive, pathetic, cowardly, stupid, inane copout that is refuse.

aww butthurt.

Awwww that would matter if you and your 'defense' hadn't been neatly ripped to shreads by all and sundry.

[RDSFirebane]

Well as far as my opinion goes Refuse was the best option I let the galaxy die on it's own terms instead of acting like I knew what was best for everyone.

Defend or glorify what ever ending you wish they all had issues and all felt kind of weak but hey that's the way the cookie crumbled.

[dweller]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.

Again your logic is that the right ending is the one that lets you live, why didn't you choose control then?

Because I want the galaxy to choose its own way instead of imposing my faulty logic upon them, and control's reaper police and synthesis's cyborgs don't allow that. Since you couldn't ask them what they wanted and cast a vote to find out, your best bet (if you were reasonable) would be Destroy, and there is really nothing to debate here.

In every ending your imposing faulty logic......

No, you aren't. Only in refuse (and imo synthesis), where the "faulty logic" is the claim that you know everyone would rather die than sacrifice the geth because they are united together for a cause (to destroy the reapers btw, if you paid any attention to the story), eventhough they do not explicitly say that.

Control isn't that bad, but the reaper police doesn't seem like a great idea. It keeps the entire galaxy in check, yes, but through fear, and I don't like that. I'd rather Shepard left together with the reapers after he'd helped them repair the relays and the damage caused by The Reaper wars.

Modifié par dweller, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:17 .

[legion999]

Eluril wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Eluril wrote... 

The Crucible gives you the power, NOT the Catalyst. Repeat after me: Shepard has all the power at the end of the game. The Catalyst is powerless and simply communicating to Shepard. YOU have the power through the Crucible.

Wrong. In refuse the Catalyst shuts the Crucible off. If you held the power you could force the Catalyst to ceasefire.

No that's not within the power of the Crucible. It is designed to unleash massive energy, not the type to simply target and shut down the Catalyst. In addition, Catalyst shuts down the Crucible BECAUSE you chose not to choose. It is a respectable and debatable choice, but you still made it.

So you don't have the power then.

[Esquin]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

awww, butthurt kid is butthurt.

You blew up everyone, princess. There's no reason you can ever offer me that will make that okay.

Aww...are you still mad that someone choose another choice? Poor baby. It must hurt that people think differently than you do. Tut tut.

And no actually bucko. The Reapers did that. Shep fought and lost.

Actually, no. Synth? I'm cool with that. Control? I'm cool with that. Destory? I'm the most cool with that.

Awww, are you still mad that you have no logical defense for killing every living thing? Poor baby. It must hurt that people call you out on your BS.

No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

I didn't kill every living thing. The reapers did. I just took away what was potentially another weapon for them to do it with. Because again "I don't know what the crucible does and I don't trust the catalyst to tell me the truth about it."

[Fauxnormal]

legion999 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote....
No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

Really? Did Shepard kill each and every person? You sure that wasn't the Reapers snd the Catalyst?

I'm sure.

YOU made the choice, princess.

YOU.

You had every option to chose something else. Being a coward, or using twisted backassward troll logic, you chose to throw a tantrum and doom everything to death or worse.

bravo.

[Fauxnormal]

Esquin wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

awww, butthurt kid is butthurt.

You blew up everyone, princess. There's no reason you can ever offer me that will make that okay.

Aww...are you still mad that someone choose another choice? Poor baby. It must hurt that people think differently than you do. Tut tut.

And no actually bucko. The Reapers did that. Shep fought and lost.

Actually, no. Synth? I'm cool with that. Control? I'm cool with that. Destory? I'm the most cool with that.

Awww, are you still mad that you have no logical defense for killing every living thing? Poor baby. It must hurt that people call you out on your BS.

No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

I didn't kill every living thing. The reapers did. I just took away what was potentially another weapon for them to do it with. Because again "I don't know what the crucible does and I don't trust the catalyst to tell me the truth about it."

Nope.

You killed everyone and everything.

No one else.

YOU.

[babachewie]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

The sign of a desperate debater when they start using hitler. Fox News would be proud.

The Hitler was just a touch, but I was right, You either fail or commit Genocide, so how am i wrong?

You're not worng. You either fail or commit Genocide....or sacrifce youself for the two choices. either one would be better than total defeat. You killed the entire galaxy with the knowledge you had you had no hope if you paid enough attention to the game and what the characters were saying. Sacrifices will be made just ask commander shepard. 

So you want to commit Genocide, and war crimes in order to win? I knew their are sacrifices, but not genocide, I understand though, its not a sacrifice its complete genocide of 1.5 billions geth, but you call it a sacrifice? right?

I dont want to, I had to. Its the nature of the beast. I would kill thousands to save millions. The difference between Hitler and Shepard is motivation. Again I've told you before it wouldnt be the first time in the ME universe. Mordin even said it was unfortunate what happened with the Rachni but had to be done. Same with the genophage. Attrocities sometimes have to be commited for the greater good. And those who carry it out will live with the guilt but people will live. If you cant grasp that concept than you have no business being in command of anything. 

[legion999]

Scott2998 wrote...

Wait, time out. I watch a lot of History Channel, but I must have missed the episode where they explained how Hitler had the fate of the galaxy in his hands.

Because he's still alive on the moon with his ubër superweapons.

[Ryzaki]

legion999 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote....
No, actually, bucko. You had a choice. YOU killed every living thing because YOU were a coward or a butthurt baby. That is not 'fighting'. That is pathetic.

Really? Did Shepard kill each and every person? You sure that wasn't the Reapers snd the Catalyst?

No no see somehow SHEPARD is the one who forces the Reapers to do the cycle. Obviously.

[Yawaru]

I'm glad the option is there, but the idea that it's the right or best choice is just... dumb. ME3 alone you screw the Salarians by stopping the Genophage (or screw the Krogan by not stopping it) and screw the Quarians by helping the Geth (or vice versa). Now from a meta standpoint you know that it works out in the end, the Quarian/Geth in the short run at least, not the Salarian/Krogan. But you also know you die horribly by refusing. From Shepard's standpoint, hey guess what, you're potentially dooming one race to save another, and it's a choice you make on your own. That's the whole point of the game, no, the series even. And hey, lets not forget you might choose to not help the Geth, in which case you're only arguing to save EDI, which is small potatoes in the long run.

Point is, if that's the ending you believe is right for your Shepard, good for you. Is it the choice Shepard would make if ME3 was real? I don't think so, but my opinion is just as valid or invalid as yours. For me, It's like sacrificing the Alliance ships to save the Council, Shepard carries the guilt of all the ships and crew lost by his decision, but he doesn't regret it as it was a necessary sacrifice.