861 réponses à ce sujet

[ATLAS1192]

carrmatt91 wrote...

you people do realize this threads going to be locked if the quote pyramids don't stop?

Stubborn people will be stubborn.

[jsadalia]

Refusal is the ending for cowards and psychotics. Which is fair enough, I just had not expected cowards and psychotics to be such a large demographic.

[OblivionDawn]

No such thing as the "right" ending.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

jsadalia wrote...

Refusal is the ending for cowards and psychotics. Which is fair enough, I just had not expected cowards and psychotics to be such a large demographic.

Care to explain why?

[Ryzaki]

RDSFirebane wrote...
o dont get me wrong I still cant find the drive to play any of the games I just watched all the EC on you tube. So it was more of a cherry on top of the ash for me lol.

I actually replay the damn game for the combat. NEVER thought I'd say that about a BW game. But yeah...it's the combat that keeps me playing. Maker knows the storyline makes me cringe at this point. LOL cherry ontop of ash.

It just makes me sad for what could've been.

[Ravenmyste]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

I would like to argue the Top 5 arguments against Refusal, lets begin.

 1-You committed a greater genocide if you choose to refuse
rather than just killing all the Geth if you choose destroy.

The Galaxy agreed to fight the Reapers or die trying; if we
refuse the catalyst options we are continuing to fight them. If the Japanese
wouldn’t have surrendered in WW2, and they would have been wiped out, would
their world leaders be accused for Genocide? No, it would just be that Japan
lost the war. Same thing if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.


2-Sacrifices must be made to win the war, whether it’s
controlling the reapers, synthesis, or destroying the Geth.

    True, sacrifices
must be made, but some things are something’s are some despicably wrong that
shouldn’t be done. During the whole events of ME3, you are in a constant argument
with TIM saying controlling the Reapers are wrong, you saw all the innocent
people who died by Cerberus because they wanted to control the Reapers, and
unless you meta-game it seems fishy that the Catalyst would just let you
control him, so why choose Control if it contradicts and betrays everything you
fought for in ME3. Synthesis is again a betrayal for everyone who fought to
defeat the Reapers, all the people who died, all the families separated, no one
agreed to co-exist with the Reapers, we agreed to destroy them, synthesis is
wrong. Now there will always be casualties in war, but no one agreed to be sold
in order to win the war, furthermore committing genocide just for the fact to
ensure victory in the war because you’re afraid of extinction compromises the
agreement the galaxy agreed to, win this war together.

 


3- If you choose refusal, the next cycle uses the Crucible
anyway, so what’s the point?

You don’t know that unless you Metagame, there is still no
conformation if they use it or not, it just shows Liara passing down the plans
and you don’t know what they choose, whether more options arrived, and the circumstances
on how their war was.

 


4-People who choose refusal are cowards and are too afraid
to make tough decisions.

We’re not cowards, were sticking truth to what the Mass
Effect series has been about, overcoming challenges against all odds in our
terms. And I have still to comprehend how refusing the catalyst and continuing
to fight is cowardly. If you make a choice because you’re afraid of what might
happen if you don’t is cowardly like many people do.


5-Why pour all the resources and waste all the efforts
people have put into by not using the crucible.
As a YouTuber, MrBtongue said, the story of the Crucible is
flawed and stupid, but when our cycle built it was to defeat the Reapers but
not at the cost of Genocide, or to control or co-exist with the Reapers, as an
united Galaxy by the end of ME3, I think we would rather all die than sell
someone out now, or betray everything we fought for.


Those are my explanations, if you find anything wrong with them, please tell me what it is. If your going to act ignorant or give some stupid obtuse explanation, or repeat the same thing which I just argued by just repeating the question, please don't say anything at all. Thank you.

PS-Sorry for formatting, copy and pasted from Microsoft Word.

i call trolling and here why

 a if you choose to renegade the entire game you will kill the geth and quarian even before destroy so to pick refusal is in fact committing major genocide on all living races of this regardless and would be shown as cowardice in then battle you couldn't decide what to do if you did pick destroy they evens aid that they are rebuilding.. anything that destroyed.

so yes you are trolling you cant make the hard choices is what refusal means so you need to have the next cycle do the same thing and call shep  a coward.

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Fauxnormal]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ravenmyste wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

I would like to argue the Top 5 arguments against Refusal, lets begin.

 1-You committed a greater genocide if you choose to refuse
rather than just killing all the Geth if you choose destroy.

The Galaxy agreed to fight the Reapers or die trying; if we
refuse the catalyst options we are continuing to fight them. If the Japanese
wouldn’t have surrendered in WW2, and they would have been wiped out, would
their world leaders be accused for Genocide? No, it would just be that Japan
lost the war. Same thing if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.


2-Sacrifices must be made to win the war, whether it’s
controlling the reapers, synthesis, or destroying the Geth.

    True, sacrifices
must be made, but some things are something’s are some despicably wrong that
shouldn’t be done. During the whole events of ME3, you are in a constant argument
with TIM saying controlling the Reapers are wrong, you saw all the innocent
people who died by Cerberus because they wanted to control the Reapers, and
unless you meta-game it seems fishy that the Catalyst would just let you
control him, so why choose Control if it contradicts and betrays everything you
fought for in ME3. Synthesis is again a betrayal for everyone who fought to
defeat the Reapers, all the people who died, all the families separated, no one
agreed to co-exist with the Reapers, we agreed to destroy them, synthesis is
wrong. Now there will always be casualties in war, but no one agreed to be sold
in order to win the war, furthermore committing genocide just for the fact to
ensure victory in the war because you’re afraid of extinction compromises the
agreement the galaxy agreed to, win this war together.

 


3- If you choose refusal, the next cycle uses the Crucible
anyway, so what’s the point?

You don’t know that unless you Metagame, there is still no
conformation if they use it or not, it just shows Liara passing down the plans
and you don’t know what they choose, whether more options arrived, and the circumstances
on how their war was.

 


4-People who choose refusal are cowards and are too afraid
to make tough decisions.

We’re not cowards, were sticking truth to what the Mass
Effect series has been about, overcoming challenges against all odds in our
terms. And I have still to comprehend how refusing the catalyst and continuing
to fight is cowardly. If you make a choice because you’re afraid of what might
happen if you don’t is cowardly like many people do.


5-Why pour all the resources and waste all the efforts
people have put into by not using the crucible.
As a YouTuber, MrBtongue said, the story of the Crucible is
flawed and stupid, but when our cycle built it was to defeat the Reapers but
not at the cost of Genocide, or to control or co-exist with the Reapers, as an
united Galaxy by the end of ME3, I think we would rather all die than sell
someone out now, or betray everything we fought for.


Those are my explanations, if you find anything wrong with them, please tell me what it is. If your going to act ignorant or give some stupid obtuse explanation, or repeat the same thing which I just argued by just repeating the question, please don't say anything at all. Thank you.

PS-Sorry for formatting, copy and pasted from Microsoft Word.

i call trolling and here why

 a if you choose to renegade the entire game you will kill the geth and quarian even before destroy so to pick refusal is in fact committing major genocide on all living races of this regardless and would be shown as cowardice in then battle you couldn't decide what to do if you did pick destroy they evens aid that they are rebuilding.. anything that destroyed.

so yes you are trolling you cant make the hard choices is what refusal means so you need to have the next cycle do the same thing and call shep  a coward.

People like you make me lose my faith in todays society.
Obviously this thread follows the logic you made peace, calling me a troll just because i can't make hard choices is beyond stupid, and I couldn't understand your whole point....

[DEATHSCOPE]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

I don't know why OP fail to see that survival IS everything. It's either fight or go extinct. Use whatever means to win.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

Your not getting my point dude. For one when you kill the Geth, its not causalties or sacrifice, its genocide don't justify it. your killing 1.5 billion to be fair, and the galaxy knew what was going to happens when we decided to fight the reapers, No one agreed to be sold or sacrificed entirely to ensure victory.

[babachewie]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
America didn't commit genocide in WW2. No one ever has.

the rwandans did...

Your right, but do you think it was right?

That question makes no sense as it does not apply to the ME universe, but is simply inflamatory. 

Honestly, OP, why do you care if others agree with you?

I think you're wrong.  You have this romantic notion of war.  That fighting a lost cause and dooming others to a fate worse than death is somehow acceptable.

I will never agree with you.  My Shepard knows that war is not romantic.  She is willing to die to stop the Reapers, and yes, she is willing to condemn the Geth to the same fate.  She accepts that.

You will never agree with me.  You will never accept responsibility for the death of everyone in the galaxy.  But that's your story. 

Mine has Shepard stopping the Reapers at tremendous cost.  She can live with it.  And all of the children from now well into the future can live with it too.

I just wrote it doesn't fit with the ME universe. I don't have a romantic view of war, I know sacrifices and causalties are inatible, but no war should be won by commiting genocide, I do accept responsibilty for the death of everyone in the galaxy, but not because I doomed them by not submitting to the catalyst. 

You clown. You're not submitting to the catalyst. Those choices arent even his. He didnt come up with nor plan the crucible. Those were put there and perfected by the millions of species over the countless cycles. The Catalyst didnt evne know about them until the citadel attached itself to it and it changed him and gave him new options. You doomed the  galaxy without even knowing what you were doing or what it was you were dealing with. Good job. 

Modifié par babachewie, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

I don't know why OP fail to see that survival IS everything. It's either fight or go extinct. Use whatever means to win.

I remember EDI telling me stories of people who all died instead of sacrificing each other....

[MB957]

I dont understand why some people say that refusal is a loss. In my new stargazer scene in EC, as per refusal, I saw a lady and a kid talking. the head looked asari, but hard to say. anyway...they said that shepard and crew fought and made great sacrifice to give them a chance to live. there was no mention of loss of the war to the reapers. there was no mention of non use of the crucible.

what I took from it is that the archives said that shepard fought, and that somehow, the galaxy continued, and that their struggle gave room for the lives of the next peoples to come.

did I miss something??

[Khajiit Jzargo]

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
America didn't commit genocide in WW2. No one ever has.

the rwandans did...

Your right, but do you think it was right?

That question makes no sense as it does not apply to the ME universe, but is simply inflamatory. 

Honestly, OP, why do you care if others agree with you?

I think you're wrong.  You have this romantic notion of war.  That fighting a lost cause and dooming others to a fate worse than death is somehow acceptable.

I will never agree with you.  My Shepard knows that war is not romantic.  She is willing to die to stop the Reapers, and yes, she is willing to condemn the Geth to the same fate.  She accepts that.

You will never agree with me.  You will never accept responsibility for the death of everyone in the galaxy.  But that's your story. 

Mine has Shepard stopping the Reapers at tremendous cost.  She can live with it.  And all of the children from now well into the future can live with it too.

I just wrote it doesn't fit with the ME universe. I don't have a romantic view of war, I know sacrifices and causalties are inatible, but no war should be won by commiting genocide, I do accept responsibilty for the death of everyone in the galaxy, but not because I doomed them by not submitting to the catalyst. 

You clown. You're not submitting to the catalyst. Those choices arent even his. He didnt come up with nor plan the crucible. Those were put there and perfected by the millions of species over the countless cycles. The Catalyst didnt evne know about them until the citadel attached itself to it and it changed him and gave him new options. You doomed the  galaxy without even knowing what you were doing or what it was you were dealing with. Good job. 

The Crucible was never finished before Shepard, and the Catalyst says that Shepard is the first organic to reach that point, so how were those choices implemented by other cycles, and if they were, they didn't even know what they did.

[Ryzaki]

@MB957 : It's another cycle. Shep's cycle fought and lost. Liara makes that clear.

Which...I had no problem with. The refuse ending being a fling a light into the future ending is fine with me.

That tweet pissed me the hell off though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:13 .

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

I don't know why OP fail to see that survival IS everything. It's either fight or go extinct. Use whatever means to win.

I remember EDI telling me stories of people who all died instead of sacrificing each other....

Wow. You really are clueless. It's a small fraction. This is the galaxy as a whole. Fight or die. Simple as that.

[Tairram]

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

[zambot]

 Refusal is this:

Modifié par zambot, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:15 .

[DEATHSCOPE]

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

[jsadalia]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

Refusal is the ending for cowards and psychotics. Which is fair enough, I just had not expected cowards and psychotics to be such a large demographic.

Care to explain why?

Avoidance of responsibility and an inability to comprehend the horrors that inaction results in.

Shepard might get to die fighting.  Almost everyone else gets to die screaming in a Reaper death tube.  Shepard either chickens out because the consequences of his/her decision are so vast, or fails to grasp the true cost of his/her idealism or pride or fighting spirit or whatever. Given what Shepard knows of the situation and what will happen without the Crucible, the latter requires self-centeredness of sufficient degree to be insanity.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

MB957 wrote...

I dont understand why some people say that refusal is a loss. In my new stargazer scene in EC, as per refusal, I saw a lady and a kid talking. the head looked asari, but hard to say. anyway...they said that shepard and crew fought and made great sacrifice to give them a chance to live. there was no mention of loss of the war to the reapers. there was no mention of non use of the crucible.

what I took from it is that the archives said that shepard fought, and that somehow, the galaxy continued, and that their struggle gave room for the lives of the next peoples to come.

did I miss something??

I agree, I don't know why people see the complete negative of refusal, According to the stargazer scene which she says "They people before us fought a great war so we didn't have to" tells a lot, also some people might have survived till the next cycle, but thats headcannon.

[Eluril]

zambot wrote...

 Refusal is this:

LOL!!!

[jsadalia]

zambot wrote...

 Refusal is this:

Only if the predictable consequence was the English chopping everyone in Scotland into tiny chunks and eating them.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

[77boy84]

Refusal is the right ending because it's not as bad as the others, and I'm not talking morals or ethics or any of that ****. It's the only ending that isn't terribly written and the only one that doesn't totally rely on random space magic to win the day.

I can't even be bothered to argue the merits of one ending vs the other in terms of ethics and morals, because seriously, that's so freaking pointless, because, honestly, none of the endings deserve serious consideration.