861 réponses à ce sujet

[zambot]

jsadalia wrote...
Only if the predictable consequence was the English chopping everyone in Scotland into tiny chunks and eating them.

I thought that really did happen.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

I don't know why OP fail to see that survival IS everything. It's either fight or go extinct. Use whatever means to win.

I remember EDI telling me stories of people who all died instead of sacrificing each other....

Wow. You really are clueless. It's a small fraction. This is the galaxy as a whole. Fight or die. Simple as that.

Its not a number game, its the principle that we won't sell someone out in order to win the war.

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

but it's not headcannon since the quarians have already built the geth before so potentially they could build more. im not saying they would, but it's possible.

[C9316]

So, act like a pissed off brat and let everything, everyone you've been fighting for die just because YOU personally have a problem with the choices or swallow your pride and do what's neccessary to defeat the Reapers hmm? Seems like a no brainer for me..

[Khajiit Jzargo]

jsadalia wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

jsadalia wrote...

Refusal is the ending for cowards and psychotics. Which is fair enough, I just had not expected cowards and psychotics to be such a large demographic.

Care to explain why?

Avoidance of responsibility and an inability to comprehend the horrors that inaction results in.

Shepard might get to die fighting.  Almost everyone else gets to die screaming in a Reaper death tube.  Shepard either chickens out because the consequences of his/her decision are so vast, or fails to grasp the true cost of his/her idealism or pride or fighting spirit or whatever. Given what Shepard knows of the situation and what will happen without the Crucible, the latter requires self-centeredness of sufficient degree to be insanity.

I didn't choose destroy because of my opinion, I made a well formed opinion that the galaxy that was united as a whole would not sell someone out to win the war, especially when selling someone out means genocide.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

Lol. Getting desperate there OP? You still haven't responded to my other points.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

but it's not headcannon since the quarians have already built the geth before so potentially they could build more. im not saying they would, but it's possible.

Then its not headcannon that we could survive via stasis pod, if Javik did it, and the only reason why others didn't was because a malfunction, we can sorta assume some people survived.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

Lol. Getting desperate there OP? You still haven't responded to my other points.

What point do you want me to answer?

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You know what's better than all life in the galaxy dying?

All life in the galaxy NOT dying.

Sack up, Shep.

Again, That logic is saying that survival is everything.

No ****, sherlock.

I don't believe "survival" should be won by commiting genocides/war crimes.

War.

Casualties happen.

Two thousand die so two million can live.

That is not a war crime.

Wiping out all life?

Yeah, I totally see where this makes sense DUDE DON'T KILL THAT ONE RACE LET'S JUST KILL EVERYONE.

I don't know why OP fail to see that survival IS everything. It's either fight or go extinct. Use whatever means to win.

I remember EDI telling me stories of people who all died instead of sacrificing each other....

Wow. You really are clueless. It's a small fraction. This is the galaxy as a whole. Fight or die. Simple as that.

Its not a number game, its the principle that we won't sell someone out in order to win the war.

I doubt principles can win a war. In war, statistics are the only thing that matters. Kill more of them before they can kill you.

[Nuclear Pete]

I choose destroy. Live free!

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

but it's not headcannon since the quarians have already built the geth before so potentially they could build more. im not saying they would, but it's possible.

Then its not headcannon that we could survive via stasis pod, if Javik did it, and the only reason why others didn't was because a malfunction, we can sorta assume some people survived.

ill give you that, but the only reason javik alone survived was that the power ran out for everyone else as it was being triaged for him, and liara said herself that the prothean stasis tech was immensly more powerful than ours, we just wouldn't have the tech to survive until the next cycle if it takes a century unless a very limited number of people were chosen to go into cryo

Modifié par carrmatt91, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:26 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

[Fauxnormal]

77boy84 wrote...

Refusal is the right ending because it's not as bad as the others, and I'm not talking morals or ethics or any of that ****. It's the only ending that isn't terribly written and the only one that doesn't totally rely on random space magic to win the day.

I can't even be bothered to argue the merits of one ending vs the other in terms of ethics and morals, because seriously, that's so freaking pointless, because, honestly, none of the endings deserve serious consideration.

Then leave. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you, be sure to get ripped off selling your games, and take yourself back under your rock.

[Fauxnormal]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

1. learn what genocide means. You're sort of doing it picking 'refuse'.

2. Dying is not winning, and it is not better.

3. Your Shep is free to blow his/her brains out. But taking everyone else with him is kind of a dick thing to do.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Tairram wrote...

Why i want to chose refusal if with destroy i kill all the bad guys (edi die ? i dont think so, i bet we can repair, if we can reapir mass relays, spaceships,etc). And, my shepard survive XD

Refusal is a good alternate ending and just this. Why i will leave the choices for the future. Starchild again? Oh ,**** no

Agreed. Quarians can always make more Geth.

If your allow to say that, them im allow to say many people survived until the next cycle via methods such as stasis pods because its headcannon.

but it's not headcannon since the quarians have already built the geth before so potentially they could build more. im not saying they would, but it's possible.

Then its not headcannon that we could survive via stasis pod, if Javik did it, and the only reason why others didn't was because a malfunction, we can sorta assume some people survived.

ill give you that, but the only reason javik alone survived was that the power ran out as it was being triaged for him, and liara said herself that the prothean stasis tech was immensly more powerful than ours, we just wouldn't have the tech to survive until the next cycle if it takes a century unless a very limited number of people were chosen to go into cryo

Liara also said that it might take 100 more years until the Reapers harvest everyone, maybe we can build something to that extent so that our last resort is to survive till the next cycle like the Protheans.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

Yes I would, like I said many pages ago, if it meant saving the galaxy. Sacrifice one race to save the many.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

1. learn what genocide means. You're sort of doing it picking 'refuse'.

2. Dying is not winning, and it is not better.

3. Your Shep is free to blow his/her brains out. But taking everyone else with him is kind of a dick thing to do.

1-No I'm doing what the Galaxy agreed to do fight Reapers, if we die, its not genocide. We just die.
2-Neither is commiting Genocide of you allies to win a war
3-The reapers killed us, Shep had nothing to do with it, except not choosing to commit genocide.

[SMichelle]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

And you did.  Of course you also condemned every man, woman, child, every organic and synthetic to systematic destruction - but hey you stuck to your principles - so you got that going for you.

[babachewie]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
America didn't commit genocide in WW2. No one ever has.

the rwandans did...

Your right, but do you think it was right?

That question makes no sense as it does not apply to the ME universe, but is simply inflamatory. 

Honestly, OP, why do you care if others agree with you?

I think you're wrong.  You have this romantic notion of war.  That fighting a lost cause and dooming others to a fate worse than death is somehow acceptable.

I will never agree with you.  My Shepard knows that war is not romantic.  She is willing to die to stop the Reapers, and yes, she is willing to condemn the Geth to the same fate.  She accepts that.

You will never agree with me.  You will never accept responsibility for the death of everyone in the galaxy.  But that's your story. 

Mine has Shepard stopping the Reapers at tremendous cost.  She can live with it.  And all of the children from now well into the future can live with it too.

I just wrote it doesn't fit with the ME universe. I don't have a romantic view of war, I know sacrifices and causalties are inatible, but no war should be won by commiting genocide, I do accept responsibilty for the death of everyone in the galaxy, but not because I doomed them by not submitting to the catalyst. 

You clown. You're not submitting to the catalyst. Those choices arent even his. He didnt come up with nor plan the crucible. Those were put there and perfected by the millions of species over the countless cycles. The Catalyst didnt evne know about them until the citadel attached itself to it and it changed him and gave him new options. You doomed the  galaxy without even knowing what you were doing or what it was you were dealing with. Good job. 

The Crucible was never finished before Shepard, and the Catalyst says that Shepard is the first organic to reach that point, so how were those choices implemented by other cycles, and if they were, they didn't even know what they did.

Actually you're wrong the Protheans finished it but were never allowed to use because of in fighting between those who wanted to destroy the reapers and those who wanted to control them. They knew it would work but didnt get to use it cause of stupidty. Sound familar and they were wiped out. The Catalsyt is the citadel. They needed something to massively amplify its energy. Being the central hub of the entire mass relay network it was the obvious choice and was added to the schematics. Nobody knew about the AI living in it. Control and Destroy were the only two choices until it attached to it. That added Synthesis. 

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Then its not headcannon that we could survive via stasis pod, if Javik did it, and the only reason why others didn't was because a malfunction, we can sorta assume some people survived.

ill give you that, but the only reason javik alone survived was that the power ran out as it was being triaged for him, and liara said herself that the prothean stasis tech was immensly more powerful than ours, we just wouldn't have the tech to survive until the next cycle if it takes a century unless a very limited number of people were chosen to go into cryo

Liara also said that it might take 100 more years until the Reapers harvest everyone, maybe we can build something to that extent so that our last resort is to survive till the next cycle like the Protheans.

but with what supplies? your losing manpower, worlds, resources, trade routes, its probably safe to assume that once the earth fleet is defeated the catalyst could possibly regain control of the relay network, also you never know if an indoctrinated person would sabotage it.

Modifié par carrmatt91, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:31 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

Yes I would, like I said many pages ago, if it meant saving the galaxy. Sacrifice one race to save the many.

Then its just a matter of opinion, We can argue any further now...

[SMichelle]

Nuclear Pete wrote...

I choose destroy. Live free!

Hmm.. now I'm confused.  Living free does sound better than dying free.

[77boy84]

Fauxnormal wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Refusal is the right ending because it's not as bad as the others, and I'm not talking morals or ethics or any of that ****. It's the only ending that isn't terribly written and the only one that doesn't totally rely on random space magic to win the day.

I can't even be bothered to argue the merits of one ending vs the other in terms of ethics and morals, because seriously, that's so freaking pointless, because, honestly, none of the endings deserve serious consideration.

Then leave. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you, be sure to get ripped off selling your games, and take yourself back under your rock.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@DEATHSCOPE

So you would commit war crimes, genocide to your allies to win a war, that's were I disagree, Like my Shep said "I rather die fighting" in ME1

And you did.  Of course you also condemned every man, woman, child, every organic and synthetic to systematic destruction - but hey you stuck to your principles - so you got that going for you.

Like I said before, If a country were to get wiped out in a war because they kept fighting instead of doing something they didn't want to do, were the world leaders be accused of Genocide or the killers?

[Khajiit Jzargo]

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
America didn't commit genocide in WW2. No one ever has.

the rwandans did...

Your right, but do you think it was right?

That question makes no sense as it does not apply to the ME universe, but is simply inflamatory. 

Honestly, OP, why do you care if others agree with you?

I think you're wrong.  You have this romantic notion of war.  That fighting a lost cause and dooming others to a fate worse than death is somehow acceptable.

I will never agree with you.  My Shepard knows that war is not romantic.  She is willing to die to stop the Reapers, and yes, she is willing to condemn the Geth to the same fate.  She accepts that.

You will never agree with me.  You will never accept responsibility for the death of everyone in the galaxy.  But that's your story. 

Mine has Shepard stopping the Reapers at tremendous cost.  She can live with it.  And all of the children from now well into the future can live with it too.

I just wrote it doesn't fit with the ME universe. I don't have a romantic view of war, I know sacrifices and causalties are inatible, but no war should be won by commiting genocide, I do accept responsibilty for the death of everyone in the galaxy, but not because I doomed them by not submitting to the catalyst. 

You clown. You're not submitting to the catalyst. Those choices arent even his. He didnt come up with nor plan the crucible. Those were put there and perfected by the millions of species over the countless cycles. The Catalyst didnt evne know about them until the citadel attached itself to it and it changed him and gave him new options. You doomed the  galaxy without even knowing what you were doing or what it was you were dealing with. Good job. 

The Crucible was never finished before Shepard, and the Catalyst says that Shepard is the first organic to reach that point, so how were those choices implemented by other cycles, and if they were, they didn't even know what they did.

Actually you're wrong the Protheans finished it but were never allowed to use because of in fighting between those who wanted to destroy the reapers and those who wanted to control them. They knew it would work but didnt get to use it cause of stupidty. Sound familar and they were wiped out. The Catalsyt is the citadel. They needed something to massively amplify its energy. Being the central hub of the entire mass relay network it was the obvious choice and was added to the schematics. Nobody knew about the AI living in it. Control and Destroy were the only two choices until it attached to it. That added Synthesis. 

My point still stand, they didn't know about its options.