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Reasons why Refusal is the right ending. "Die free!"


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#501
Ryzaki

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.


Full stop.

How the hell is Synthesis NOT submission? 

You turn all organic life into a form they can tolerate so they'll stop the cycle. Full stop. That's submission. If someone threatens to kill (other example was a bit...yeah) you unless you decide to change your outfit and you do so when you have the choice to shoot them in the face or mind control them into not doing so...you submitted to their will. You can't change that into anything else. You submitted. You bent over.

Refuse is using your hands to fight them when you are vastly overpowered in a fist fight and have like nil chance at defeating them. Yeah you lose, yeah you probably deserve a darwin award but you sure in hell didn't SUMBIT.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:27 .


#502
carrmatt91

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Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Good point.


Honestly though...Shep's cycle was pathetic compared to the Protheans. They pretty much go QQ REAPERS! The second the Reapers are even there "OMG ALL HOPE IS LOST! MUST BUILD SUPERWEAPON!" They roll over crying (and they haven't even seen anything yet) and it's just...compared to the Protheans they're pathetic. I'm listening to Javik's stories and then looking at Shep and co and facepalming.

Especially hard at Liara's "OMG my people!" 

...REALLY LIARA? 

Tis not like we've been seeing every other species huskified and crap until now yo!


and the protheans had no mass relay travel...

#503
Father_Jerusalem

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.

You submitted by doing you didn't want to do in destroy by killing all geth. You submit in destroy because it contradicts everything about ME3. Yeah you "win" but you submit.


Who are you to say I didn't want to? 

I win in destroy because... I stop the Reapers and their cycle of extinction. You allow that cycle to continue. If anyone is submitting, it is you for contradicting everything the entire series is about - stopping the Reaper threat, whatever it takes.

#504
Khajiit Jzargo

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[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Then so be it, Hernan Cortes, whos blamed him or the native of americans.
[/quote]

*sigh*

The Native Americans, particular the Aztecs, did not have a superweapon to fight the Spaniards. Hence, they were defeated. The Spaniards get blamed for destroying them. 

Shepard, on the other hand, does but chose not to use it. Shepard gets blamed for the extinction of the galactic races. 

Your history analogy is not even close. Nice try.
[/quote]
It is valid because because had the atzecs could have surrendered but choose not too, there was no such thing for Shepard, but the atzecs could have surrendered, but choose to fight it out, yet Cortez is blamed for the Genocide.

:ph34r:[quote pyramid removed. User banned]:ph34r:

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:33 .


#505
Krunjar

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There is no right ending more fail head canon.

#506
Father_Jerusalem

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Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.


Full stop.

How the hell is Synthesis NOT submission? 

You turn all organic life into a form they can tolerate so they'll stop the cycle. Full stop. That's submission. If someone threatens to rape you unless you decide to change your outfit and you do so when you have the choice to shoot them in the face or mind control them into not doing so...you submitted to their will. You can't change that into anything else. You submitted. You bent over.


Did I say Synthesis was not submission? Because if you think I did, I would advise you to, ah, bone up on your reading skills.

Control and Destroy are absolutely not submission. Starkid absolutely does not want you to pick those options. Synthesis is bowing to the will of the Catalyst but, and here's the difference, you still win. You still stop the Reapers. 

A winner is you.

#507
carrmatt91

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just gonna leave another warning to try and avoid quote pyramids for fear of locking

#508
Khajiit Jzargo

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Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Good point.


Honestly though...Shep's cycle was pathetic compared to the Protheans. They pretty much go QQ REAPERS! The second the Reapers are even there "OMG ALL HOPE IS LOST! MUST BUILD SUPERWEAPON!" They roll over crying (and they haven't even seen anything yet) and it's just...compared to the Protheans they're pathetic. I'm listening to Javik's stories and then looking at Shep and co and facepalming.

Especially hard at Liara's "OMG my people!" 

...REALLY LIARA? 

Tis not like we've been seeing every other species huskified and crap until now yo!

Maybe had their listen to Shep's warnings....

#509
Khajiit Jzargo

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.

You submitted by doing you didn't want to do in destroy by killing all geth. You submit in destroy because it contradicts everything about ME3. Yeah you "win" but you submit.


Who are you to say I didn't want to? 

I win in destroy because... I stop the Reapers and their cycle of extinction. You allow that cycle to continue. If anyone is submitting, it is you for contradicting everything the entire series is about - stopping the Reaper threat, whatever it takes.

You stop the Reapers in control, why are you so destroy pro then?

#510
Ryzaki

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.



Full stop.

How the hell is Synthesis NOT submission? 

You turn all organic life into a form they can tolerate so they'll stop the cycle. Full stop. That's submission. If someone threatens to rape you unless you decide to change your outfit and you do so when you have the choice to shoot them in the face or mind control them into not doing so...you submitted to their will. You can't change that into anything else. You submitted. You bent over.


Did I say Synthesis was not submission? Because if you think I did, I would advise you to, ah, bone up on your reading skills.

Control and Destroy are absolutely not submission. Starkid absolutely does not want you to pick those options. Synthesis is bowing to the will of the Catalyst but, and here's the difference, you still win. You still stop the Reapers. 

A winner is you.


Yeah you did. Bucko. Bolded. You put winning doesn't equal submission listed examples (including Synthesis) and then said SYNTHESIS was winning basic english rules would state that YES you were saying that Synthesis being winning therefore wasn't submission.

I may blow at history but I sure in hell didn't fail English.

Now you tried to backpeddal and say you didn't equate the two when you clearly did. Maybe you should learn basic writing. A middle schooler wouldn't have made that mistake.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .


#511
Father_Jerusalem

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.

You submitted by doing you didn't want to do in destroy by killing all geth. You submit in destroy because it contradicts everything about ME3. Yeah you "win" but you submit.


Who are you to say I didn't want to? 

I win in destroy because... I stop the Reapers and their cycle of extinction. You allow that cycle to continue. If anyone is submitting, it is you for contradicting everything the entire series is about - stopping the Reaper threat, whatever it takes.

You stop the Reapers in control, why are you so destroy pro then?


Where did I ever say I was pro-destroy? 

What I am is vehemently anti-Refuse. If I prefer any ending, I prefer Control.

Honestly, try to actually keep up with the discussion and don't just resort to making your own facts up, please.

#512
carrmatt91

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.

You submitted by doing you didn't want to do in destroy by killing all geth. You submit in destroy because it contradicts everything about ME3. Yeah you "win" but you submit.


Who are you to say I didn't want to? 

I win in destroy because... I stop the Reapers and their cycle of extinction. You allow that cycle to continue. If anyone is submitting, it is you for contradicting everything the entire series is about - stopping the Reaper threat, whatever it takes.

You stop the Reapers in control, why are you so destroy pro then?


id say control is my most avoided because the reapers stay in control of an AI that doesn't have to answer to anyone but itself, it becomes unpredictable, if it decides to restart the cycle eventually then theres no more shepard to stop them, in fact hes the one leading them, in synthesis each reaper is assumed to become independant so it lessens the risk but doesnt remove it entirely.

#513
DEATHSCOPE

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[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

*sigh*

The Native Americans, particular the Aztecs, did not have a superweapon to fight the Spaniards. Hence, they were defeated. The Spaniards get blamed for destroying them. 

Shepard, on the other hand, does but chose not to use it. Shepard gets blamed for the extinction of the galactic races. 

Your history analogy is not even close. Nice try.
[/quote]

It is valid because because had the atzecs could have surrendered but choose not too, there was no such thing for Shepard, but the atzecs could have surrendered, but choose to fight it out, yet Cortez is blamed for the Genocide.
[/quote]

What? I don't even..

Clarify it please? I'm not even sure that that was English.

:ph34r:[quote pyramid removed. User banned.]:ph34r:

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:36 .


#514
Fauxnormal

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I am, frankly, done with this. OP is beyond any logical, any rational, anything aside from his/her/it's own little world where it is correct no matter how flawed the logic, stupid the reasoning, or idiotic the action.

I don't even know why this thread was made.

#515
Khajiit Jzargo

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.

You submitted by doing you didn't want to do in destroy by killing all geth. You submit in destroy because it contradicts everything about ME3. Yeah you "win" but you submit.


Who are you to say I didn't want to? 

I win in destroy because... I stop the Reapers and their cycle of extinction. You allow that cycle to continue. If anyone is submitting, it is you for contradicting everything the entire series is about - stopping the Reaper threat, whatever it takes.

You stop the Reapers in control, why are you so destroy pro then?


Where did I ever say I was pro-destroy? 

What I am is vehemently anti-Refuse. If I prefer any ending, I prefer Control.

Honestly, try to actually keep up with the discussion and don't just resort to making your own facts up, please.

Lets rewind for a bit because i honestly loss track, by choosing control or destroy, you submit by living under the tyranny of the catalyst.

#516
Khajiit Jzargo

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Fauxnormal wrote...

I am, frankly, done with this. OP is beyond any logical, any rational, anything aside from his/her/it's own little world where it is correct no matter how flawed the logic, stupid the reasoning, or idiotic the action.

I don't even know why this thread was made.

You again, how come everything i bring up a good point, you end up not replying to my post and then insulting me later on.

#517
carrmatt91

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Fauxnormal wrote...

I am, frankly, done with this. OP is beyond any logical, any rational, anything aside from his/her/it's own little world where it is correct no matter how flawed the logic, stupid the reasoning, or idiotic the action.

I don't even know why this thread was made.


i was like that earlier but then the black hole of logic kept sucking me back in, there is no escape, embrace eternity.

#518
Ryzaki

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Honestly the butthurt of "OMG this ending makes makes NO SENSE FOR SHEP AND SHEP'S A COWARD FOR PICKING IT!" can apply for Ever. Single. Goddamn. Ending.

Seriously.

#519
Father_Jerusalem

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Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Blowing up all Reapers in the galaxy is submission?

Taking over the Reapers and becoming their boss is submission?

No. You know what submission is? Saying "I submit". You know what Control and Destroy and even Synthesis are?

Winning.

Winning =/= submitting.



Full stop.

How the hell is Synthesis NOT submission? 

You turn all organic life into a form they can tolerate so they'll stop the cycle. Full stop. That's submission. If someone threatens to rape you unless you decide to change your outfit and you do so when you have the choice to shoot them in the face or mind control them into not doing so...you submitted to their will. You can't change that into anything else. You submitted. You bent over.


Did I say Synthesis was not submission? Because if you think I did, I would advise you to, ah, bone up on your reading skills.

Control and Destroy are absolutely not submission. Starkid absolutely does not want you to pick those options. Synthesis is bowing to the will of the Catalyst but, and here's the difference, you still win. You still stop the Reapers. 

A winner is you.


Yeah you did. Bucko. Bolded. You put winning and not submission as equals (when they're not) and then said SYNTHESIS was winning basic english rules would state that YES you were saying that Synthesis being winning therefore wasn't submission.

I may blow at history but I sure in hell didn't fail English.

Now you tried to backpeddal and say you didn't equate the two when you clearly did. Maybe you should learn basic writing. A middle schooler wouldn't have made that mistake.


Ah, so you're imagining what I did and did not say.You use groteseque rape analogies and personal attacks, and make numerous basic English mistakes that would, quite simply, cause you to fail English. 

You are a pedantic, hypercritical troll who jumps on anything to try and snidely talk down to other people. I had hoped that you had grown out of this period in your life, but clearly you have not. 

At some point, I trust you will make a valid point. Somewhere. Unfortunately, it is not today.

#520
Oldbones2

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DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Sorry, the first point really got to me.

The Japanese were not in danger of being wiped out to the last man, woman, and child. With enough casualties, they would surrender. The races of the galaxy were not so fortunate. They cannot surrender. It was either fight or die. Sacrifice one race, save the rest.


I'm going to make a leap here and guess you are referring to the decision to use atomic weapons on Japan during WW2.


First off, that's sort of a muddy issue, since there were some who absolutely would fight to their last breath against the invaders.  If you had any idea of the superiority complex their propaganda gave them back then, you would know this.

Secondly, while there were of course, some Japanese who would surrender, and further some who didn't want to fight at all, they weren't going to be given a choice.  Their government was pretty adamant that their strategy would net them victory or let them die with honor.  (The unfortunate truth being that if they cost us enough lives, the Allies may very well have accepted a ceasefire.  Don't believe me, that's the entire reason the British allowed the Colonies to rebel, it simply cost too much to keep them when troops were needed elsewhere.)

Thirdly, if the Japanese were so eager to surrender, I rather think they would have done it when we hit them the first time with a city destroying, god-fire weapons and proved once and for all that we were not BLUFFING, when we said we could wipe them off the map without a problem.

Instead, they kept refusing for three whole days.... until we hit them again.  At that point it was pretty clear, that fighting us was pointless and stupid.   THEN Japan surrendered.


Now lets take this analogy and flip it on its head.


Was winning the war this way worth it?

At the point in which we dropped the bomb, Japan's empire was pretty much done, even if we never invaded, their resource poor country, now deprived of many of its young men were pretty much screwed anyway.

It wasn't going to be a threat for many, many years.

Albert Einstein laid the foundation for the atomic bomb.  His science unveiled the possibility of such weapons, and his direct appeal to Roosevelt implemented their creation.


Albert Einstein said this 'I made one great mistake in my life—when I signed the letter to
President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was
some justification—the danger that the Germans would make them.'

For Einstein, the cost of winning the war with Japan (and I mean WINNING, not signing a treaty, an armistice, or a cessation of hostilities) was far too high. 


There are some acts so great and terrible they scar the very souls of all those involved.  Some acts that we can never undo, never atone for, never repair.  Acts that go beyond any conflict, acts that damn the very soul.


So if the choice is between doing what is morally and objectively wrong but keeps you alive, or doing what is right and dying with honor and freedom.... well, I like to think I'd pick the later.

#521
Father_Jerusalem

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Lets rewind for a bit because i honestly loss track, by choosing control or destroy, you submit by living under the tyranny of the catalyst.


By choosing control or destroy, I create a galaxy free of the tyranny of the Reapers and the Catalyst.

Sure, yeah, okay. That's submission for you.

#522
Khajiit Jzargo

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@Deathscope

Sorry for the bad grammar, I meant to say that, The aztecs could have surrendered, but choose not to, a choice that they did have, but Shepard didn't, so you can't say the Aztecs didn't have a huge a huge super-weapon because they had the option to surrender, something Shep didn't. Now anyway, The Aztecs choose not to surrender, are their leaders or cortez blamed for the Genocide.

#523
DEATHSCOPE

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Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly the butthurt of "OMG this ending makes makes NO SENSE FOR SHEP AND SHEP'S A COWARD FOR PICKING IT!" can apply for Ever. Single. Goddamn. Ending.

Seriously.


Agreed. Every ending is flawed somewhere. However, OP seems to think that this ending is the one true gospel. Which baffles me by the way.

#524
Father_Jerusalem

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Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

I am, frankly, done with this. OP is beyond any logical, any rational, anything aside from his/her/it's own little world where it is correct no matter how flawed the logic, stupid the reasoning, or idiotic the action.

I don't even know why this thread was made.

You again, how come everything i bring up a good point, you end up not replying to my post and then insulting me later on.


Why don't we focus, first, on instead of you asking that question, you actually making a good point. Shall we?

#525
Magiking117

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As it happens, Reapers can't be defeated conventionally. Therefore you have to make a difficult decision. That tends to happen in war. If you can't suck it up and make that decision then, well, you've just decided that you'd rather countless lives be lost; including the ones you felt so strongly about not killing.

Modifié par Magiking117, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:43 .