861 réponses à ce sujet

[JayPlays]

There is not "best" or "worst" ending, it's all down to personal preference! However, destroy is my favourite ending. Yeah Geth and EDI die, but you can bring them back with some Apple time capsule ****, and Shepard can live. The easy solution to stop synthetics from destroying organics is to simply not programme them to have free will!

[Whatever42]

A crazy lawyer hating gunman is facing down six of you but only has five bullets. You're all wielding knives. If he doesn't shoot all of you, he's dead. He knows that he can't win. He bargains with you. 

1) You can all agree to go to law school, so that lawyer can never take advantage of you with his legal trickery
2) You can agree to join and lead his crazy cult but he'll keep the gun
3) You can shoot your lawyer

Or you have:

4) You can rush him, knowing that most of you may die but you will undoubtedly get him in the end.

Now, we can reason that lawyers aren't really people and so shoot him but some of us like lawyers and may regard that as a cowardly and heinous act. 

Leting him keep the gun is very suspicious... 

Forcing your friends at gunpoint to go to law school is a horrible fate, which many may regard as worse than death.

I think the true "paragon" choice is rushing him.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:17 .

[ImperatorMortis]

Greylycantrope wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

So having every single person of every advanced species die is somehow more "OK" than having every member of a single "race" of machines die?

"What insane breed of logic is that?" - Lorik Qui'in

shodiswe wrote...

Why DIE free when people can live free?!?

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS

It's the "we're in this together" logic, and because some of us just don't want to throw our allies under the proverbial bus.

But that makes no sense. If you choose refusal you're not just throwing your "allies" under the bus you're throwing everyone under the bus. All for the sake of personal morality.

What about "the greater good"? Or "the ends justify the means"?

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

A crazy lawyer hating gunman is facing down six of you but only has five bullets. You're all wielding knives. If he doesn't shoot all of you, he's dead. He knows that he can't win. He bargains with you. 

1) You can all agree to go to law school, so that lawyer can never take advantage of you with his legal trickery
2) You can agree to join and lead his crazy cult but he'll keep the gun
3) You can shoot your lawyer

Or you have:

4) You can rush him, knowing that most of you may die but you will undoubtedly get him in the end.

Now, we can reason that lawyers aren't really people and so shoot him but some of us like lawyers and may regard that as a cowardly and heinous act. 

Leting him keep the gun is very suspicious... 

Forcing your friends at gunpoint to go to law school is a horrible fate, which many may regard as worse than death.

I think the true "paragon" choice is rushing him.

 

I agree with whatever terms that don't involve us getting killed, then slit his throat when he turns his back. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:21 .

[Whatever42]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

But that makes no sense. If you choose refusal you're not just throwing your "allies" under the bus you're throwing everyone under the bus. All for the sake of personal morality.

What about "the greater good"? Or "the ends justify the means"?

 

If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.

 
I agree to his terms, then slit his throat when he turns his back. 

Without metagaming, the Reapers still have the gun and are bargaing because they see that 50 moves in the future, they can't win. Picking one of their choices is highly risky. What happens to you when you join the cult? What if you shoot the lawyer but he still has the gun and now has enough bullets? What if becoming lawyers just puts you under his sway?

But you KNOW that if you rush him that you will eventually get him. He wouldn't be bargaining with you otherwise.

Metagaming, yes, blow em sky high.

[shodiswe]

SMichelle wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.

If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.

But "Die Free!" and going down fighting sound cool!

Try it:  "Die Free!" "Go Down Fighting!"  Yippe Ki-Yay

Now This:....blam...blam...(that's my Shep shooting the red tube)  ....not nearly as cool.

I just hope people don't try to solve real world politics the "cool" way....  Im probably too late there....

[ImperatorMortis]

shodiswe wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.

If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.

But "Die Free!" and going down fighting sound cool!

Try it:  "Die Free!" "Go Down Fighting!"  Yippe Ki-Yay

Now This:....blam...blam...(that's my Shep shooting the red tube)  ....not nearly as cool.

I just hope people don't try to solve real world politics the "cool" way....  Im probably too late there....

I think people are mostly roleplaying or trying to be "badasses", but seriously the people who think Refusal is actually in anyway a good idea, and would totally do it in real life.. They should never ever be in charge of anything.

Infact they would make good front line infantry if such a conflict were to happen. Everyone wins. The people with common sense get to live while the "Die Free!" people get to.. Die "free". 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:39 .

[AxStapleton]

Just about how many of these threads are there going to be?

[shodiswe]

mrfinke wrote...

Pyramid quotes everywhere...

Anyway, I think refusal is an acceptable ending if you have high EMS etc & are trying to stay true to Shep's character. Shepard at this point does not know that refusal leads to "everyone dies". We are told beating the reapers is impossible conventionally (more so in ME3 it seems to help support the Crucible plot).

However, Shepard was told that many of the deeds he did was impossible.
Therefore, I think arguing that someone choosing refusal is letting everyone die is not relevant if they are just trying to stay within Shep's character. The only way to know 'everyone dies' is if you metagame.

All endings require a leap of faith & a gamble.

Also:
www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/28/real-hero-of-mass-effect/

No shepard can be that stupid that he or she doesnt' realie they are all going ot die if the crucible doesn't work.
Earth is jsut one world invaded by the reapers, and tryign ot take back that worl or just space superority and one single city, "London" seemed impossible... Who are you supposed to free all those other homeworlds and colloenies? hundreds of them.... all with reaper fleets and reaper forces... with that tiny strike force you got that's gettign ripped to shereds?  Seriously?

[ImperatorMortis]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.

This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at all) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die". 

That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset. 

The arrogance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:44 .

[The Angry One]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.

This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at atll) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die". 

That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset. 

The arrgoance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling. 

You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.

This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.

RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.

[shodiswe]

I just hope noone in the real world decides to get me killed because they have a personal conviction that they are doing good by letting everyone die.

[ImperatorMortis]

The Angry One wrote...

You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.

This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.

 

Who CARES?! As long as the Reapers are gone, and everyone is still alive, and well; it DOES NOT MATTER what methods you use. 

The Angry One wrote...

RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.

RGB - Join the monster, and allow everyone to keep living, and move on with their lives.

Reject - Fight the monster, and screw everyone over.  

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Freidrich Nietzsche

This quote could not be more appropriate. 

shodiswe wrote...

I just hope noone in the real world decides to get me killed because they have a personal conviction that they are doing good by letting everyone die.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:50 .

[shodiswe]

The Angry One wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.

This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at atll) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die". 

That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset. 

The arrgoance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling. 

You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.

This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.

RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.

You're becomming an accomplice by not stopping the catalyst. You ca stop it, it can't stop you... And you choose not to. Any shepard woudl know they havnt got enough ships and troops to liberate the galaxy when they haven't got enough ships and troops to get you safely to london. All that limping nad bleeding should be a good enough reminder that you're loosing. And that your are guaranteed to loose if the fighting continues. Just like Hilter when he was hiding in a bunker trying to get small children carry weapons because all his regular armed forces were gone. I can't see how that's a good death. You can save peopel but you let them die because you didn't get your parrade victory?

[v TricKy v]

AxStapleton wrote...

Just about how many of these threads are there going to be?

Until trolls and all people are wiped out who cant understand other peoples views and accept them. Especially in video game endings.
I couldnt care less about what other people think about my choices.  

[nitefyre410]

 Unless  the refusal endings turns into something like this ... 

Socario Days    -  LMAO  listening to the Theme song makes this pic  10X better 
 

its going to nothing than joke ending that Bioware threw  in  at the for me. 

and since they are  not changing the endings anymore...  refusal ending to me is a joke, they handled it like  a joke.   

And I bet that the majority of the thread will not get why this picture is awesome and it  has very little to do with  Starbrat and Shepard.. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:11 .

[Yawaru]

What if there was a Reaper moderator that harvested all the forum members, then left it to the next generation of forum posters to try to get along? I guess there'd be cycles of that too.

But yeah, it's funny to see how many people say "my Shep would do this," "My Shep would do that." I guess you can get away with that since you're allowed to make your own decisions through Shepard, but MY Shepard would kill all your weak-willed, cheese-eating surrender monkey Sheps and finish the war. With. A. Bang.

[Legbiter]

Just shoot the tube.

[Ryzaki]

Meh I wouldn't be so angry if it was a joke.

It's just a FU.

[GreyLycanTrope]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
But that makes no sense. If you choose refusal you're not just throwing your "allies" under the bus you're throwing everyone under the bus. All for the sake of personal morality.

What about "the greater good"? Or "the ends justify the means"?

Again everyone get's thrown under the bus because of the "we're in this together" train of thought, we'll win or lose but will do it side by side. The ends DON'T justify the means, is my perspective. I'm not TIM.

This is why "He who fights with monsters might take
care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an
abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Freidrich Nietzsche" is more applicable to the RBG endings than to Refusal. I'm not the one killing galactic civilization. This has always been and continues to be the Catalyst.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[v TricKy v]

Yawaru wrote...

What if there was a Reaper moderator that harvested all the forum members, then left it to the next generation of forum posters to try to get along? I guess there'd be cycles of that too.

But yeah, it's funny to see how many people say "my Shep would do this," "My Shep would do that." I guess you can get away with that since you're allowed to make your own decisions through Shepard, but MY Shepard would kill all your weak-willed, cheese-eating surrender monkey Sheps and finish the war. With. A. Bang.

I mean its just a choice in a game. People can take it or not. Its rediculous talking other people out of taking a certain choice because its "wrong" in their opinion.

[Whatever42]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.

This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at all) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die". 

That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset. 

The arrogance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling. 

Actually, refusing to submit to force even when faced with dire consquences is a virtue in our culture.

The Allies suffered tens of millions of deaths during WWII. By fighting, they doomed those people to death. They could have surrendered and lived. Sure, certain groups would have been sacrificed to the mad leader of Germany but greater good, right?

Sorry for Godwin'ing you.

[ImperatorMortis]

Greylycantrope wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...
But that makes no sense. If you choose refusal you're not just throwing your "allies" under the bus you're throwing everyone under the bus. All for the sake of personal morality.

What about "the greater good"? Or "the ends justify the means"?

Again everyone get's thrown under the bus because of the "we're in this together" train of thought, we'll win or lose but will do it side by side. The ends DON'T justify the means, is my perspective. I'm not TIM.

You say "we're in this together", but I don't remember Shepard asking everyone if they would like to die for Shepards sense of troll logic. 

Infact I got the vibe that they DIDN'T want to die considering they spent so much time fighting the Reapers, spending resources to make the Catalyst, and the natural instinct to preserve their lives. 

You also say that "we win or lose, but we'll do it side by side". Life is not an Anime. Things don't work like that. 

If shepard were to ask people if they would rather take one of the choices given by the Reapers(one that includes destroying them), or to reject the choices, and die anyway. 

How many people would be standing in Shepards corner? How many? I doubt even Liara, Garrus, and Tali would side with Shepard, and they're the most loyal members of his/her crew. 

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Actually, refusing to submit to force even when faced with dire consquences is a virtue in our culture.

 

I would disagree, and even if it was hardly any people would think it virtuous if "submiting" included the destruction of who they were fighting against to begin with. 

To not "submit" to his terms. Two of which are debatively favorable to the people, and one which is definitly favorable. Is not logical in any way.

Its madness, plain and simple. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:15 .

[Rhiens VI]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
The galaxy agreed to fight or die trying, not to commit genocide.

Wow. Last time I played the game, the galaxy agreed to find a way to stop the Reapers.

Did your Shepard go on a galaxy-wide commlink and asked everyone to die in the name of his morals? Did they agree?

[Carlthestrange]

Destroy: Kill all synthetics and EDI. You are a dick.
Control: Become the Reaper consciousness. Some people might see you as a dick.
Synthesis: Force unnatural evolution on an unsuspecting galaxy. You are a dick.
Refuse: Your cycle dies to protect your precious principles. You are a dick.

In terms of dickishness, Control seems like the least dickish. But even then, it seems that way a little.

Conclusion: No matter how you save the Galaxy, you are a dick. There is no "Best" ending. Its 4 choices of "Become the galaxies greatest ****."

[The Angry One]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Who CARES?! As long as the Reapers are gone, and everyone is still alive, and well; it DOES NOT MATTER what methods you use.

I FREAKING CARE! I'M NOT GOING TO SELL THE GALAXY TO THE REAPERS JUST TO "WIN".

RGB - Join the monster, and allow everyone to keep living, and move on with their lives.

Reject - Fight the monster, and screw everyone over.  

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Freidrich Nietzsche

This quote could not be more appropriate.

And who's staring into the abyss here? My hands are clean. Are yours?

shodiswe wrote...

I just hope noone in the real world decides to get me killed because they have a personal conviction that they are doing good by letting everyone die.

Maybe you'd prefer I become a god and rule you, or sacrifice you because somebody tells me to, or forcibly augment you without your permission then.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:14 .