Reptilian Rob wrote...
Ok then, everyone EVER that you knew and that was present for a very long ****ing time.
Don't worry though, we still have the Yahg...
(Also, it's called redundant sarcasm)
shodiswe wrote...
You're becomming an accomplice by not stopping the catalyst. You ca stop it, it can't stop you... And you choose not to. Any shepard woudl know they havnt got enough ships and troops to liberate the galaxy when they haven't got enough ships and troops to get you safely to london. All that limping nad bleeding should be a good enough reminder that you're loosing. And that your are guaranteed to loose if the fighting continues. Just like Hilter when he was hiding in a bunker trying to get small children carry weapons because all his regular armed forces were gone. I can't see how that's a good death. You can save peopel but you let them die because you didn't get your parrade victory?
Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:16 .
The Angry One wrote...
ImperatorMortis wrote...
Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.
This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at atll) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die".
That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset.
The arrgoance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling.
You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.
This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.
RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.
Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:18 .
The Angry One wrote...
I FREAKING CARE! I'M NOT GOING TO SELL THE GALAXY TO THE REAPERS JUST TO "WIN".
The Angry One wrote...
And who's staring into the abyss here? My hands are clean. Are yours?
The Angry One wrote...
Maybe you'd prefer I become a god and rule you, or sacrifice you because somebody tells me to, or forcibly augment you without your permission then.
Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:27 .
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
ImperatorMortis wrote...
Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.
This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at atll) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die".
That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset.
The arrgoance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling.
You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.
This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.
RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.
A crazy man with a portable truth detector hooked up to his head and his insane desciples have you and 10 others locked in a room with guns to your heads. The insane man, completely unable to to see this situation from a different perspective due to his past trauma (programming), then asks you a question.
"Let me kill this man here, and the rest of you will walk free." The truth detector rings positive.
"If you don't make a choice, i will kill every single one of you here." There it goes again.
What do you do? Let one man die for the rest of your sakes? Or make all of you die to keep your "morality" intact? Also, knowing full well that this man is giving you a choice that can save everyone in the room except one man, who is truly committing the mass murder? The man whom is fundamentally a proxy, or you, the controller of said proxy?
Just pray that the galaxy doesn't have these "refusers" in charge when we eventually get overun by rogue AI.
The Angry One wrote...
The man is. Who is he to demand I make that choice, and how am I responsible for that?
Moreover, false analogy. Shepard doesn't know the Catalyst is telling the truth, and don't even pretend they do.
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:29 .
The Angry One wrote...
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
The Angry One wrote...
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
ImperatorMortis wrote...
Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
If you're a buddhist then it makes perfect sense. Die pure and uncorrupted, achieve Nirvana, while everyone else can come back in the next cycle.
This is bad too! So you're subjecting your religion on everyone else, and deciding for them(People who might not have the same belief or any belief at atll) that "it wouldn't be so bad to die".
That is so outrageous that I'm starting to feel a little upset.
The arrgoance of the "Refusers" is astounding, and troubling.
You're still engaging in the fallacy that Shepard is killing people as opposed to the Catalyst.
This is not a difficult concept. The Catalyst is the mass murdering butcher that's declared war on the galaxy.
RGB - Join the monster.
Reject - Fight the monster.
A crazy man with a portable truth detector hooked up to his head and his insane desciples have you and 10 others locked in a room with guns to your heads. The insane man, completely unable to to see this situation from a different perspective due to his past trauma (programming), then asks you a question.
"Let me kill this man here, and the rest of you will walk free." The truth detector rings positive.
"If you don't make a choice, i will kill every single one of you here." There it goes again.
What do you do? Let one man die for the rest of your sakes? Or make all of you die to keep your "morality" intact? Also, knowing full well that this man is giving you a choice that can save everyone in the room except one man, who is truly committing the mass murder? The man whom is fundamentally a proxy, or you, the controller of said proxy?
Just pray that the galaxy doesn't have these "refusers" in charge when we eventually get overun by rogue AI.
The man is. Who is he to demand I make that choice, and how am I responsible for that?
Moreover, false analogy. Shepard doesn't know the Catalyst is telling the truth, and don't even pretend they do.
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:38 .
ImperatorMortis wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
You sound like the type of person who would get a phone call from some kidnappers, and when they demand payment in exchange for your childs life. You would probably respond "I don't negotiate with terrorists", and simply hang up the phone.
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
You're responsible because you essentially told an insane man with the inability to keep a coherent thought pattern to kill all those people. There was no malice there, just his own confusion and a man telling him to go ahead and kill everyone.
He is an AI. With programs. He cannot lie.
And you know what you said is a lie. Choosing destroy would likely end in your death, but the saving of trillions. I have no idea why you think choosing destory is sacrifising innocents to save your own ass. And i never said, once, that AI are some kind of inevitability.
The Angry One wrote...
Everything Shepard has lost to this genocidal little creep is enough reason to not believe a word it says and fight it until the end.
ImperatorMortis wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
You sound like the type of person who would get a phone call from some kidnappers, and when they demand payment in exchange for your childs life. You would probably respond "I don't negotiate with terrorists", and simply hang up the phone.
Pangaron wrote...
ImperatorMortis wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I pray that the galaxy doesn't ever have people like you in charge, people who think it's okay to sacrifice innocent people and cooperate with criminals just for their own personal safety. People who delegate responsibility and, oh yeah, people who think rogue AI are some kind of inevitability.
You sound like the type of person who would get a phone call from some kidnappers, and when they demand payment in exchange for your childs life. You would probably respond "I don't negotiate with terrorists", and simply hang up the phone.
And you sound like someone who would kill an innocent random child in order to save yours.
Rhiens VI wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Everything Shepard has lost to this genocidal little creep is enough reason to not believe a word it says and fight it until the end.
Ok, you are Shepard. You managed to open the citadel, and the Crucible is docked.
But it's not working.
The Shield fleet is taking its last stand and is being decimated.
Same with the ground forces.
You have mere minutes left before the Crucible is destroyed.
The Catalyst shows up and offers you three magic cupcakes.
You can pick one of the cupcakes, and hope that the little brat didn't lie to you.
Or you can refuse, and let the Crucible be destroyed, which essentially means victory for the Reapers and death of your civilisation.
You, Shepard, know, those are the stakes.
No metagaming.
And you say that refusal to gamble with the Catalyst leaves your hands clean?
The Angry One wrote...
They control the future by forcing this choice upon you. How can you not get that?
The Angry One wrote...
Everyone except the Geth. Why are billions of innocent sapient beings expendable to you?
The Angry One wrote...
I don't "let" anyone do anything. I choose to fight tyranny. I choose to not sell my allies down the river and fight as a united galaxy, as we all agreed to do.
The Angry One wrote...
I make it possible for someone in the future to defeat the Reapers on their own terms, as we should have.
The Angry One wrote...
And blood is the only thing that makes you alive? How typical. Objectify the Geth. That makes genocide okay?
That is a truly horrible line of reasoning.
The Angry One wrote...
Though I admit, the fact that they were machines did make the choice easier. Interesting. I just gave the three RGB options, and that's what frightens you.
Pangaron wrote...
And you sound like someone who would kill an innocent random child in order to save yours.
Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:53 .
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
He is an AI. With programs. He cannot lie.
Lalalandia wrote...
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
He is an AI. With programs. He cannot lie.
Why does being an AI make you incapable of lying? If this is a true AI then it is unbounded by any 'rules', even Asimov's famous rules don't include 'Always tell the truth' as that would inherently conflict with the need to preserve life. Refuse is the only choice that preserves the galaxy you fought for.
If Destroy had been presented as eliminating all of humanity rather than 'someone else' then it would have been genuinely interesting, as it is it's just 'kill all the unsympathetic races to preserve yours' which is the lowest form of choice. Sythesis is just 'Saren's Victory' with less impaled-on-sticks and the post-EC slideshow is the worst sort of Utopian schlock I've seen from a 'serious' game in a long time, the ending to Mario games are more realistic. Control presumes the Illusive Man was right and everything pror to Star Child saying 'no you'd totally be able to handle it' suggests that no anybody with that power gets indoctrinated.
It comes down to this if a Deus Ex Machina showed up in real life you'd never trust it, it's only the conventions of crappy storytelling that allow us to trust what he says.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:50 .
People are just obtuse now.Ryzaki wrote...
*facepalms*
Are we really arguing that AI can't lie? Despite EDI flat out telling us they can?
REALLY?
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