861 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

SMichelle wrote...

Personally I think death is overrated.  I think living sounds much better.

And some would rather not live at any cost.

And LOL @ everyone saying Shep's imposing his/her will on the galaxy. Shepard does that in every single ending. Honestly I'd be far more pissed about Synthesis than Refuse. At least in Refuse I have the chance to blow my brains out and die as me before the Reapers get their paws on me.

[The Angry One]

[quote]ImperatorMortis wrote...

It isn't for "no reason". The reason is so that everyone else can live.  [/quote]

That doesn't require the Geth and EDI to die. There's no reason behind it. The Catalyst is maliciously forcing us to choose when it could just relent, if it knows that the cycle is unviable.

[quote]I don't care if the Reapers told me to perform a one man play for them, as long as they get destroyed by the third act. [/quote]

Well, I do care.

[quote]You're right. You fight them UP UNTIL the end. At the end you just stand there while they destroy everthing, and everyone. [/quote]

You think I'm happy with that or something? Go ask Mac Walters why he has Shepard just stand there.

[quote]And then they use the species you doomed to make more Reapers.. Yay?

You think Reapers care that much for their own kind? When they know they're expendable, and can simply make more.   [/quote]

One Sovereign class Reaper per cycle vs. several dozen killed before the battle of Earth.
Attrition remains in our favour.

[quote]The Catalyst controls the future, and the next cycle prevails because of the Catalyst. The Reapers have control either way. Whether you listen to them or oppose them. The Reapers are in control, until they're destroyed.[/quote]

Twitter canon is not relevant.

[quote]I don't know why you're trying to convince yourself that you had some role in this. You effectively did nothing at the end. [/quote]

By that logic, neither did you.

[quote]And countless organics are killed, and tortured meantime until someone can rebuild the Catalyst, and make the decision you refused.[/quote]

a) Stop confusing the Catalyst with the Crucible
 The next cycle won't need the Crucible.

[quote]Not casually. I would never be casual about such a thing, and I wouldn't take them up on their promise if I knew they were lying. But they weren't. [/quote]

You only know this by meta-gaming.

[quote]And even if Space Child didn't tell me, I would know that we would not be able to win conventionally. I know we would be doomed if we didn't use the Catalyst. [/quote]

Can't win, don't try?

[quote]Everyone knew it, its why it was being built in the first place. [/quote]

Nobody knew it was really a Reaper device to promote the Reaper agenda.

[quote]You are killing them. You're killing them by inaction. If you press the big red button that launches all the nukes, then you're a murderer. If you don't press the big red button that stops all the nukes when you are clearly able to, then you are a muderer. [/quote]

No, I am not. No matter how many times you say I am. The Catalyst is the murderer, and I choose to fight it.

[quote]
I feel comfotable with what I've done, and I have no problem defending my views. It is effortless on my part. 

[/quote]

Of course it is, since you've convinced yourself that you aren't cooperating with the worst killer that's ever lived - the Catalyst.

[Ryzaki]

Carlthestrange wrote...

The speciality is the Shepards Pie.

Is the pie bitter or sweet? :innocent:

[ImperatorMortis]

The Genophage wrote...

How so? Is a united galaxy that will fight to the death for each other. I think that some would obviously oppose the idea, but some would be glad that they didn't commit major genocide to win a war and that they will fight to the death and not sell someone out.

I honestly don't mean to be rude, but this is so insanely naive that its making my head spin. 

You think anyone would care that they had to destroyed synthetics so everyone else can live. Really? 

This sense of comradery, and honor does not exist. People want to live. Thats all that matters to most people. 

Ryzaki wrote...

Too bad there's not an ending that kills them all AND the Reapers. 

 

[GreyLycanTrope]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
It is pointless. They all know that they can't win against the Reapers without the Catalyst. You're talking about fighting for survival yet you're spurning the thing that lets ensures that survival.  

Because it ensures the survival of only a selected group, or saves everyone but only in a manner were the Reapers still get to impose their will on the rest of the galaxy.

[SMichelle]

The Genophage wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

To be fair, Refusing is not a pointless fight, you choose not to take the Catalyst ultimanium and continue to fight, I think the galaxy can respect that.

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

Apparently.

You honestly expect people to "respect" that you've doomed their entire race to death/Reaperhood.  That their wives, husbands, children and everyone that they ever known and loved will be wiped from existence?

Okay....Nope don't get it.  But hey, that's my Shepard.

[The Genophage]

SMichelle wrote...

Personally I think death is overrated.  I think living sounds much better.

Well I believe living is overrated, it should not be put ahead of genocide , I'm personally of a control guy myself, control the Reapers and punch Khalisah over and over again.

[Carlthestrange]

Ryzaki wrote...



Is the pie bitter or sweet? :innocent:

Depends on your Paragon/Renegade ending.

[carrmatt91]

The Genophage wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

I've give you a tip. Certain people can't understand that most people don't want to die for someone elses random philosophy. 

Greylycantrope wrote...

Doesn't seem pointless, the're still fighting for surivival even if they fail.
Hopeless yes, but they were prepared for that, there was no guarantee the Crucible would work in the first place, it was a gamble to begin with.

 

It is pointless. They all know that they can't win against the Reapers without the Catalyst. You're talking about fighting for survival yet you're spurning the thing that lets ensures that survival.  

It's not someone elses random philosophy, many people wouldn't want to sell a species to win, maybe those people who are way to afraid of death, but I can honestly say that many would go down fighting rather than to sacrifice someone. 

your talking about a race thats had no major peaceful contact with anyone for 300 years, and every attempt by the council to contact them has been met with hostilities, im pretty certain many would sacrifice the geth.

[The Genophage]

SMichelle wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

To be fair, Refusing is not a pointless fight, you choose not to take the Catalyst ultimanium and continue to fight, I think the galaxy can respect that.

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

Apparently.

You honestly expect people to "respect" that you've doomed their entire race to death/Reaperhood.  That their wives, husbands, children and everyone that they ever known and loved will be wiped from existence?

Okay....Nope don't get it.  But hey, that's my Shepard.

I honestly expect people to respect that I didn't want to submit to the Catalyst ultimanium by commiting genocide to win a war to our allies who agreed to help us, and throw them under the bus, in order to ensure victory but instead we fight even if it means dying, but hey, that's my Shepard.
:happy:

[Ryzaki]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Yup. My renedouche is DONE with the Galaxy with the Reapers just done. Watching them all blow up will make him smile. (And yeah that's my Pscyhotic Shepard (the ones some anti-refuse morons were confusing my refuse Shepard with).) He's already gotten started with the Krogan, Quarians and Rachni. Watching those idiotic Quarians kill themselves was particularly amusing.

Carlthestrange wrote...

Depends on your Paragon/Renegade ending.

LOL

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .

[Carlthestrange]

*Takes a bow*

[Ryzaki]

SMichelle wrote...
You honestly expect people to "respect" that you've doomed their entire race to death/Reaperhood.  That their wives, husbands, children and everyone that they ever known and loved will be wiped from existence?

Okay....Nope don't get it.  But hey, that's my Shepard.

Me neither.

I don't see people respecting leaving the Reapers alive (along with their loves ones that were transformed into abominations) or genetically altering all life in the galaxy either.

Only ending I see them actually respecting Sheaprd (and not bowing in fear/ brainwashed into no longer being themselves) is Destroy.

But that's just my Shepards.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:33 .

[SMichelle]

Ryzaki wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

Personally I think death is overrated.  I think living sounds much better.

And some would rather not live at any cost.

And LOL @ everyone saying Shep's imposing his/her will on the galaxy. Shepard does that in every single ending. Honestly I'd be far more pissed about Synthesis than Refuse. At least in Refuse I have the chance to blow my brains out and die as me before the Reapers get their paws on me.

But my Shepard knows the cost.  It is horrific, but she is willing to pay it so that the galaxy can go on.  But that is my Shepard.  RPG's are cool like that.

[The Genophage]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

How so? Is a united galaxy that will fight to the death for each other. I think that some would obviously oppose the idea, but some would be glad that they didn't commit major genocide to win a war and that they will fight to the death and not sell someone out.

I honestly don't mean to be rude, but this is so insanely naive that its making my head spin. 

You think anyone would care that they had to destroyed synthetics so everyone else can live. Really? 

This sense of comradery, and honor does not exist. People want to live. Thats all that matters to most people. 

Ryzaki wrote...

Too bad there's not an ending that kills them all AND the Reapers. 

 

Obviously many people would care if they had synthetics, If people don't want to kill them over a virtual world, my guess is that they won't want to kill the synthetics who at that moment were giving their lifes to fight alongside you and help you.
And yes, the sense of comradery does exist, it shows all over history and beyond.

[carrmatt91]

The Genophage wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

To be fair, Refusing is not a pointless fight, you choose not to take the Catalyst ultimanium and continue to fight, I think the galaxy can respect that.

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

Apparently.

You honestly expect people to "respect" that you've doomed their entire race to death/Reaperhood.  That their wives, husbands, children and everyone that they ever known and loved will be wiped from existence?

Okay....Nope don't get it.  But hey, that's my Shepard.

I honestly expect people to respect that I didn't want to submit to the Catalyst ultimanium by commiting genocide to win a war to our allies who agreed to help us, and throw them under the bus, in order to ensure victory but instead we fight even if it means dying, but hey, that's my Shepard.
:happy:

ive said this multiple times in this thread, but i doubt your going to listen, noone else did.

it's technically not genocide as the intention is not to kill the geth, shepard does not use the catalyst to deliberately kill the geth, the intention is to kill reapers, the geth are caught in the blast. ergo collateral damage, unavoidable casualties

genocide definition : the deliberate and systematic eradication of a culture/race

and plus, shepards already indirectly killed 300000 batarians, that was also not genocide as he tried to warn them of the impending explosion but a lack of time stopped this.

Modifié par carrmatt91, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .

[The Genophage]

carrmatt91 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

I've give you a tip. Certain people can't understand that most people don't want to die for someone elses random philosophy. 

Greylycantrope wrote...

Doesn't seem pointless, the're still fighting for surivival even if they fail.
Hopeless yes, but they were prepared for that, there was no guarantee the Crucible would work in the first place, it was a gamble to begin with.

 

It is pointless. They all know that they can't win against the Reapers without the Catalyst. You're talking about fighting for survival yet you're spurning the thing that lets ensures that survival.  

It's not someone elses random philosophy, many people wouldn't want to sell a species to win, maybe those people who are way to afraid of death, but I can honestly say that many would go down fighting rather than to sacrifice someone. 

your talking about a race thats had no major peaceful contact with anyone for 300 years, and every attempt by the council to contact them has been met with hostilities, im pretty certain many would sacrifice the geth.

Maybe because they were attacked by Quarians, Damm Quarians, anyway, everything changes when you see them dying and sacrifing themselves for you.

[Ryzaki]

SMichelle wrote...
But my Shepard knows the cost.  It is horrific, but she is willing to pay it so that the galaxy can go on.  But that is my Shepard.  RPG's are cool like that.

My Refuse Shep does know the cost of refusing the Reapers. He's just willing to gamble. Loses but hell he died fighting those bastards to his last. My control Shepard DGAF about the galaxy (he's the one who'd rather blow them all the hell up) and he amuses himself by dominating all of them (since he's too meticulous to get the bad Destroy ending). My Destroy Shepard killed the Reapers because hey starbrat said everything could be rebuilt also f the reapers and their cycles. Lazarus project for EDI and the Geth time.

..my Sheps rather blow their own brains out before picking Synthesis.

And yes RPGs are cool like that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:37 .

[The Genophage]

carrmatt91 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

To be fair, Refusing is not a pointless fight, you choose not to take the Catalyst ultimanium and continue to fight, I think the galaxy can respect that.

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

Apparently.

You honestly expect people to "respect" that you've doomed their entire race to death/Reaperhood.  That their wives, husbands, children and everyone that they ever known and loved will be wiped from existence?

Okay....Nope don't get it.  But hey, that's my Shepard.

I honestly expect people to respect that I didn't want to submit to the Catalyst ultimanium by commiting genocide to win a war to our allies who agreed to help us, and throw them under the bus, in order to ensure victory but instead we fight even if it means dying, but hey, that's my Shepard.
:happy:

ive said this multiple times in this thread, but i doubt your going to listen, noone else did.

it's technically not genocide as the intention is not to kill the geth, shepard does not use the catalyst to deliberately kill the geth, the intention is to kill reapers, the geth are caught in the blast. ergo collateral damage, unavoidable casualties

genocide definition : the deliberate and systematic eradication of a culture/race

I'll say it again, I'm not Refusal pro, but choosing Destroy is Genocide. Whether or not you take pleasure or want to kill them or not, if you do, it's genocide. You say the intention is to kill the Reapers, but you know it will kill the Geth if you shoot the tube, it's genocide, please don't justify it and admit what you did had to be done, but it is genocide.

[carrmatt91]

The Genophage wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

I've give you a tip. Certain people can't understand that most people don't want to die for someone elses random philosophy. 

Greylycantrope wrote...

Doesn't seem pointless, the're still fighting for surivival even if they fail.
Hopeless yes, but they were prepared for that, there was no guarantee the Crucible would work in the first place, it was a gamble to begin with.

 

It is pointless. They all know that they can't win against the Reapers without the Catalyst. You're talking about fighting for survival yet you're spurning the thing that lets ensures that survival.  

It's not someone elses random philosophy, many people wouldn't want to sell a species to win, maybe those people who are way to afraid of death, but I can honestly say that many would go down fighting rather than to sacrifice someone. 

your talking about a race thats had no major peaceful contact with anyone for 300 years, and every attempt by the council to contact them has been met with hostilities, im pretty certain many would sacrifice the geth.

Maybe because they were attacked by Quarians, Damm Quarians, anyway, everything changes when you see them dying and sacrifing themselves for you.

and after the quarians left the council tried to make peaceful contact. what happens next? the geth killed every. single. envoy.

The Genophage wrote...
I'll say it again, I'm not Refusal pro, but choosing Destroy is Genocide. Whether or not you take pleasure or want to kill them or not, if you do, it's genocide. You say the intention is to kill the Reapers, but you know it will kill the Geth if you shoot the tube, it's genocide, please don't justify it and admit what you did had to be done, but it is genocide.
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

 

was the geth destruction deliberate? NO
was it systematic (system to system, world to world)? NO
was it due to culture/race? NO

therefore it doesn't even fit the definition of genocide, its  collateral damage.

genocide  (ˈdʒɛnəʊˌsaɪd)  — 
nounthe deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial,political, or cultural group.

Modifié par carrmatt91, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:45 .

[nitefyre410]

Carlthestrange wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I wish there was a version of Destroy where Shep died and EDI and the Geth lived. That would be a great (if not the best) ending.

It's not like living Shep gets any damn closure anyway.

It won't be the best ending to some people because they won't get to bang their LI.

I know i'm taking the stereotypical view, but... I find myself sometimes wondering if the obsessive fans of certain LI's have ever seen a real man/woman naked....

 

LOL ...I find myself asking the question myself...certain fans attachment to the LI is a little bit...strong 

[The Genophage]

carrmatt91 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Pssst! I give you a tip. Certain people in here are to stubborn to understand that.

I've give you a tip. Certain people can't understand that most people don't want to die for someone elses random philosophy. 

Greylycantrope wrote...

Doesn't seem pointless, the're still fighting for surivival even if they fail.
Hopeless yes, but they were prepared for that, there was no guarantee the Crucible would work in the first place, it was a gamble to begin with.

 

It is pointless. They all know that they can't win against the Reapers without the Catalyst. You're talking about fighting for survival yet you're spurning the thing that lets ensures that survival.  

It's not someone elses random philosophy, many people wouldn't want to sell a species to win, maybe those people who are way to afraid of death, but I can honestly say that many would go down fighting rather than to sacrifice someone. 

your talking about a race thats had no major peaceful contact with anyone for 300 years, and every attempt by the council to contact them has been met with hostilities, im pretty certain many would sacrifice the geth.

Maybe because they were attacked by Quarians, Damm Quarians, anyway, everything changes when you see them dying and sacrifing themselves for you.

and after the quarians left the council tried to make peaceful contact. what happens next? the geth killed every. single. envoy.

I don't follow, when did this occurance happen, was it after or before the war?

[Ryzaki]

carrmatt91 wrote..
your talking about a race thats had no major peaceful contact with anyone for 300 years, and every attempt by the council to contact them has been met with hostilities, im pretty certain many would sacrifice the geth.

They would.

Good or my Shep then that he's the one making the decision.

[SMichelle]

Ryzaki wrote...


My Refuse Shep does know the cost of refusing the Reapers. He's just willing to gamble. Loses but hell he died fighting those bastards to his last. My control Shepard DGAF about the galaxy (he's the one who'd rather blow them all the hell up) and he amuses himself by dominating all of them. My Destroy Shepard killed the Reapers because hey starbrat said everything could be rebuilt. Lazarus project for EDI and the Geth time.

And yes RPGs are cool like that.

It's too bad more responses couldn't be like this on BSN.  I agree to the earlier post, no matter what ending you choose your Shepard is a dick.


(I can't fight it anymore!  I've been dying to say; "I'm Commander Shepard and I'm the biggest dick in the galaxy"  I know it's immature, but I just couldn't help myself) 

[ImperatorMortis]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

That doesn't require the Geth and EDI to die. There's no reason behind it. 
[/quote]  

Yes it does require it. Its set to destroy synthetics. The Geth are synthetic, EDI is synthetic, the Reapers are synthetic. 

It makes sense. Life isn't Burger King, you can't have everything your way.  


[quote]The Angry One wrote...
The Catalyst is maliciously forcing us to choose when it could just relent, if it knows that the cycle is unviable.
 [/quote] 

You keep feeding me this line, like I'm supposed to care. It doesn't matter if its forcing us to choose, when one of the choices is killing it. 


[quote]The Angry One wrote...
You think I'm happy with that or something? Go ask Mac Walters why he has Shepard just stand there.
[/quote] 

What else is Shepard supposed to do? What else? Does Shepard just run around shooting every random object in a fit of imputent rage? Are you gonna shoot the Star Child again even though that obviously didn't work the first time? 

Is Shepard supposed to leave the area? When he/she teleported to? No. Shepard is stuck there, there is nothing for Shep to do, but die. 


[quote]The Angry One wrote...
One Sovereign class Reaper per cycle vs. several dozen killed before the battle of Earth.
Attrition remains in our favour.
[/quote] 

Oh my God.. No it doesn't. A dozen reapers? If everyone is dead/harvested you think it would take that long (From their perspective) to rekindle their numbers? 

You are far 


[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Twitter canon is not relevant.
[/quote] 

You keep saying that like its supposed to mean something. Its almost like your saying "whats being said here doesn't support my side, so I'm just going to pretend its not relevant".

Its childish, and petty. 
[quote]I don't know why you're trying to convince yourself that you had some role in this. You effectively did nothing at the end. [/quote]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
By that logic, neither did you.
[/quote]  

Do.. Do you even know what your saying at this point? Or are you just spouting random junk? 

I did do something, the Reapers are gone. Humanity gets to live, the Turians get to live, the Asari get to live, the Krogan get to live, the Rachni get to live, the Volus get to live, the Elcor get to live, the Hanar get to live,  the Quarians get to live, the Batarians get to live, etc. etc. 

That isn't "nothing". 

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
The next cycle won't need the Crucible.
[/quote]  

And you know this how? How? What did Shepard do to let the cycle destroy the Reapers without the crucible? What did he/she do that had any real meaning. 

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
You only know this by meta-gaming.
[/quote]  

Yes, but I didn't make the decision by meta gaming, and I was right. 

Also taking a chance is better than doing nothing. 

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Can't win, don't try?
 [/quote]   

Not trying would be refusal. I did try, and I succeeded. 

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Nobody knew it was really a Reaper device to promote the Reaper agenda.
[/quote]    

Everyone knew that they would be royally ****ed if they didn't use it. Thats all they really needed to know. 

[quote]You are killing them. You're killing them by inaction. If you press the big red button that launches all the nukes, then you're a murderer. If you don't press the big red button that stops all the nukes when you are clearly able to, then you are a muderer. [/quote]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
No, I am not. No matter how many times you say I am. The Catalyst is the murderer, and I choose to fight it.[/quote]


You don't fight it. You do nothing. 

You murderer. 

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
Of course it is, since you've convinced yourself that you aren't cooperating with the worst killer that's ever lived - the Catalyst.[/quote]

Everyone gets to live, and move on with their lives. Thats all I need to be OK with it.