861 réponses à ce sujet

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

[Allaiya]

Pyramid quotes everywhere...

Anyway, I think refusal is an acceptable ending if you have high EMS etc & are trying to stay true to Shep's character. Shepard at this point does not know that refusal leads to "everyone dies". We are told beating the reapers is impossible conventionally (more so in ME3 it seems to help support the Crucible plot).

However, Shepard was told that many of the deeds he did was impossible.
Therefore, I think arguing that someone choosing refusal is letting everyone die is not relevant if they are just trying to stay within Shep's character. The only way to know 'everyone dies' is if you metagame.

All endings require a leap of faith & a gamble.

Also:
www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/28/real-hero-of-mass-effect/

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

and again, you claim that people who chose destroy deliberately did it to kill the geth, no not everyone did, most did it to kill the reapers which was the purpose of destroy the geth always were and will be collateral damage only, i say again, i along with a lot of other people deliberately destroyed the reapers but the geth was an unavoidable by product of that choice ergo, geth death was not deliberate therefore it is not classed as genocide, it is collateral damage/ruthless calculus/acceptable losses

Modifié par carrmatt91, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:44 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Lukanp wrote...

What interests me about the Reject option is why is everyone so optimistic about putting our fate in the next cycle at all. To clarify I've seen the epilogue and I'm aware it actually worked, but since some community members question Shepards perception and reasoning if he decides to use the Destroy option, claiming he shouldn't have trusted the AI even in spite of the fact that it's obviously changed by the Cruciable, I'd like to point out a simillar problem with The Reject Ending.

My question is, why is everyone so utterly convinced to put our faith in the civilisations next cycle when countless ones before us were unable to end the threat. For what we know our chance to actually do something about it might be completely unique and there won't be another one for generations. Now I understand that these hopes resonate around the time capsule Liara constructed, but personally I'm not that convinced that it's enough to ensure a long term victory. You see, Protheans had beacons as well, and quite a few I might add, they had underground shelters and a plan of survival. Granted, they failed at it for the most part but still managed to get the message across to us. If you think about it mayby therey weren't as united as the civilisations of this cycle military wise, but they sure as hell had a better survival plan put in motion. The problem is, a lot can happen during 50 thousand years, everything from environmental problems to hardware failure. The advantage we have over the Protheans is we had all of our knowledge stored ona single disk, but that's also why a potentail failure would be so devastatic. For what we know mayby someone else used this method in the previous cycles and it failed as well.

Bottom line is, it's such a gamble to rest our hopes on this method. Can we really risk the fate of future generations on a fragile piece of technology? The prothean beacons were meant to be durable as well yet we managed to stumble upon them by mear chance. For me it's a bit of a long shot, especially when you have the chance to end the cycle once and for all right here now. After all, a single man's conscience is a small price to pay in comparison to the lives trillions.

My desicions is mostly based off the fact on what the galaxy agreed to do and what I have done the past three games, not on the next cycle winning. I honestly don't know many cycles it will take until the Reapers are defeated, but I will know that my Cycle had a huge part on it.

[Ryzaki]

Oh boy I wish people would stop calling rejecters self righteous.

EVERY single ending can have self-righteous justification.

Reject doesn't *have* to be self righteous.

Seriously GTFO with that noise.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

Read this quote from an article.
By refusing to use the Crucible, Shepard is taking a moral stance – saying that she is willing to play the long game, if that’s what it takes to defeat the Reapers. She is not prepared to write off an entire sentient race as an acceptable cost. She is, in that sense, refusing to think like a Reaper – with their genocidal utilitarianism – or to accept the Reapers’ tools as the only way to deal with them.Without Liara T’Soni’s knowledge, making that choice would be insane. Without Liara T’Soni’s perspective, Shepard would not be able to consider it. But she has both. So, the rejection ending is the ending where Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise. It’s a difficult ending, and certainly a bittersweet one – in all probability, none of the characters we have met over the three games will get to live to a ripe old age surrounded by $alienskintone babies. But it is still a heroic ending – and, thanks to the real hero of Mass Effect, still a hopeful one.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:44 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.

If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.

But they died by lossing, not because they were sacrificed after they became you allies just to ensure victory.

It doesn't matter. Not only are they just as dead either way, it's mentioned they can be rebuilt.

When its it mentioned they can be rebuilt? Thats reaching for straws, if you can say that, then I can say my Cycle didn't fail when I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers.

The irony.  
I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers. That's you reaching for straws too. Headcanon.

Are you so paranoid and huffy that you can't even read what I wrote completely without trying to insult it? I said that if destroyers can say Geth can be rebuild, then I can say  that people survived. I'm personally not saying thats a fact.

But if you throw all the headcanons out the window, fact is at the end of the day, everybody dies in refusal. In destroy, control, and synthesis, however, everybody is still alive. Mostly.

The fact is you also commited Genocide (=

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.

If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.

But they died by lossing, not because they were sacrificed after they became you allies just to ensure victory.

It doesn't matter. Not only are they just as dead either way, it's mentioned they can be rebuilt.

When its it mentioned they can be rebuilt? Thats reaching for straws, if you can say that, then I can say my Cycle didn't fail when I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers.

The irony.  
I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers. That's you reaching for straws too. Headcanon.

Are you so paranoid and huffy that you can't even read what I wrote completely without trying to insult it? I said that if destroyers can say Geth can be rebuild, then I can say  that people survived. I'm personally not saying thats a fact.

But if you throw all the headcanons out the window, fact is at the end of the day, everybody dies in refusal. In destroy, control, and synthesis, however, everybody is still alive. Mostly.

The fact is you also commited Genocide (=

And so I did, nothing in this war has been easy so far, why start now? Oh, and I also killed 300,000 Batarians when I blew up a Mass Relay. And I also sacrificed a lot of Alliance lives to save the Council.

[KingNothing125]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

I also willingly left Kaidan Alenko behind to die. What's the difference? Scale. That's it.

The Geth joined my war effort, knowing full well what was at stake.

I do not agree that it is genocide. And even if I did agree (which I don't), I would do it anyway. President Harry Truman dropped two atomic bombs on Japanese cities, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, but it ended the war, saving millions more.

It's the ruthless calculus of war.

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

Read this quote from an article.
By refusing to use the Crucible, Shepard is taking a moral stance – saying that she is willing to play the long game, if that’s what it takes to defeat the Reapers. She is not prepared to write off an entire sentient race as an acceptable cost. She is, in that sense, refusing to think like a Reaper – with their genocidal utilitarianism – or to accept the Reapers’ tools as the only way to deal with them.Without Liara T’Soni’s knowledge, making that choice would be insane. Without Liara T’Soni’s perspective, Shepard would not be able to consider it. But she has both. So, the rejection ending is the ending where Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise. It’s a difficult ending, and certainly a bittersweet one – in all probability, none of the characters we have met over the three games will get to live to a ripe old age surrounded by $alienskintone babies. But it is still a heroic ending – and, thanks to the real hero of Mass Effect, still a hopeful one.

in that case shepard is an egotistical b*stard, he could end the war with minimal casualties but refuses to on the basis of his/her own beliefs, its not up to shepard, he/she has their orders, end the reaper threat, which he/she refuses to do, im sure if hackett had been there with shepard, hacket would have shot the tube before the catalyst had even spoken, so would anderson

shepard should be fighting for the galaxy's right to live, not for his own pride and morals.

Modifié par carrmatt91, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:52 .

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh boy I wish people would stop calling rejecters self righteous.

EVERY single ending can have self-righteous justification.

Reject doesn't *have* to be self righteous.

Seriously GTFO with that noise.

I don't really see how it can be much of anything else.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.

If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.

But they died by lossing, not because they were sacrificed after they became you allies just to ensure victory.

It doesn't matter. Not only are they just as dead either way, it's mentioned they can be rebuilt.

When its it mentioned they can be rebuilt? Thats reaching for straws, if you can say that, then I can say my Cycle didn't fail when I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers.

The irony.  
I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers. That's you reaching for straws too. Headcanon.

Are you so paranoid and huffy that you can't even read what I wrote completely without trying to insult it? I said that if destroyers can say Geth can be rebuild, then I can say  that people survived. I'm personally not saying thats a fact.

But if you throw all the headcanons out the window, fact is at the end of the day, everybody dies in refusal. In destroy, control, and synthesis, however, everybody is still alive. Mostly.

The fact is you also commited Genocide (=

And so I did, nothing in this war has been easy so far, why start now? Oh, and I also killed 300,000 Batarians when I blew up a Mass Relay. And I also sacrificed a lot of Alliance lives to save the Council.

And so my cycle loss, we always stuck to our values, why start now?

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

Read this quote from an article.
By refusing to use the Crucible, Shepard is taking a moral stance – saying that she is willing to play the long game, if that’s what it takes to defeat the Reapers. She is not prepared to write off an entire sentient race as an acceptable cost. She is, in that sense, refusing to think like a Reaper – with their genocidal utilitarianism – or to accept the Reapers’ tools as the only way to deal with them.Without Liara T’Soni’s knowledge, making that choice would be insane. Without Liara T’Soni’s perspective, Shepard would not be able to consider it. But she has both. So, the rejection ending is the ending where Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise. It’s a difficult ending, and certainly a bittersweet one – in all probability, none of the characters we have met over the three games will get to live to a ripe old age surrounded by $alienskintone babies. But it is still a heroic ending – and, thanks to the real hero of Mass Effect, still a hopeful one.

in that case shepard is an egotistical b*stard, he could end the war with minimal casualties but refuses to on the basis of his/her own beliefs, its not up to shepard, he/she has their orders, end the reaper threat, which he/she refuses to do, im sure if hackett had been there with shepard, hacket would have shot the tube before the catalyst had even spoken, so would anderson

shepard should be fighting for the galaxy's right to live, not for his own pride and morals.

Anderson didn't know about the Catalyst and its options/consequences, that doesn't make any sense.

[nitefyre410]

Why is that nearly everyone on the BSN feels the need to make the ending the choose they "Right" ending where there IS no "right"

give it up

Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh boy I wish people would stop calling rejecters self righteous.

EVERY single ending can have self-righteous justification.

Reject doesn't *have* to be self righteous.

Seriously GTFO with that noise.

I don't really see how it can be much of anything else.

How about the Mass Effect themes?

[babachewie]

Oh geez this guy again. Arguing the same crap he was the other day. Move along.

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

Read this quote from an article.
By refusing to use the Crucible, Shepard is taking a moral stance – saying that she is willing to play the long game, if that’s what it takes to defeat the Reapers. She is not prepared to write off an entire sentient race as an acceptable cost. She is, in that sense, refusing to think like a Reaper – with their genocidal utilitarianism – or to accept the Reapers’ tools as the only way to deal with them.Without Liara T’Soni’s knowledge, making that choice would be insane. Without Liara T’Soni’s perspective, Shepard would not be able to consider it. But she has both. So, the rejection ending is the ending where Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise. It’s a difficult ending, and certainly a bittersweet one – in all probability, none of the characters we have met over the three games will get to live to a ripe old age surrounded by $alienskintone babies. But it is still a heroic ending – and, thanks to the real hero of Mass Effect, still a hopeful one.

in that case shepard is an egotistical b*stard, he could end the war with minimal casualties but refuses to on the basis of his/her own beliefs, its not up to shepard, he/she has their orders, end the reaper threat, which he/she refuses to do, im sure if hackett had been there with shepard, hacket would have shot the tube before the catalyst had even spoken, so would anderson

shepard should be fighting for the galaxy's right to live, not for his own pride and morals.

Anderson didn't know about the Catalyst and its options/consequences, that doesn't make any sense.

your ignoring the point, i said, if hackett and anderson had been with shepard then (they would have met the catalyst and...) shot the tube

[DEATHSCOPE]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.[/quote]
If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.[/quote]But they died by lossing, not because they were sacrificed after they became you allies just to ensure victory.
[/quote]
It doesn't matter. Not only are they just as dead either way, it's mentioned they can be rebuilt.
[/quote]When its it mentioned they can be rebuilt? Thats reaching for straws, if you can say that, then I can say my Cycle didn't fail when I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers.
[/quote]

The irony.  
I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers. That's you reaching for straws too. Headcanon.

[/quote]Are you so paranoid and huffy that you can't even read what I wrote completely without trying to insult it? I said that if destroyers can say Geth can be rebuild, then I can say  that people survived. I'm personally not saying thats a fact.
[/quote]

But if you throw all the headcanons out the window, fact is at the end of the day, everybody dies in refusal. In destroy, control, and synthesis, however, everybody is still alive. Mostly.
[/quote]The fact is you also commited Genocide (=
[/quote]

And so I did, nothing in this war has been easy so far, why start now? Oh, and I also killed 300,000 Batarians when I blew up a Mass Relay. And I also sacrificed a lot of Alliance lives to save the Council.[/quote]And so my cycle loss, we always stuck to our values, why start now?
[/quote]

And so you loss the game and the cycle continues. Remind me why refusal is the right ending again? 

Rhetorical question by the way.

[Hackulator]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.

So What you're saying is, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will launch a nuclear missile at a country wiping them out, I have committed genocide if I push that button.

HOWEVER, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will STOP a nuclear missile from being fired at a country and wiping them out, and I don't push the button, I have done nothing wrong?

I hope you're like, 9, which is before the point in mental development when your morals have fully formed.

MAOR TROLL LOGIC!

Edit: That wasn't directed to you, hackulator.

Yeah I understood, I'm actually abandoning this thread cause I realized its either pure troll or sub-80 IQ in here.

[Master_Smurf]

How is Shep, who looks at his/her side and sees the blood flowing out, who minutes prior had already accepted death going to get off the Citadel and back into the fight.

If the Crucible just sits there how are all of combined fleet going to do anything but be ripe for the picking by the Reapers.

I think you guys watch too much TV and play too many games. This game even offers up the Deus ex Machina and you guys say nope - we're good, we can do this by ourselves.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh boy I wish people would stop calling rejecters self righteous.

EVERY single ending can have self-righteous justification.

Reject doesn't *have* to be self righteous.

Seriously GTFO with that noise.

I don't really see how it can be much of anything else.

You don't see alot of things so that's nothing new. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Your not living free, you just commited genocide, a great war crime to win a war. 
Commiting Genocide to stop genocide is wrong.

I'm not committing genocide. There are no Geth civilians. All the Geth are participating in this galactic war. In war, you have to make sacrifices. You order people to their deaths. You charge a line or you defend a hill, knowing you will lose soldiers under your command.

The Crucible killing the Geth is unfortunate collateral damage.



And freakin' seriously, people, enough with the quote pyramids. It's enough to make me never want to come back to this thread.

Your willingly shooting a red tube knowing it will wipe out all geth, its genocide, don't try to justify it, just like i admit my choice ends up with us lossing, you must admit your choice is genocide.

NO you had your chance to save everyone, you willingly sat there with that big red destroy/control/synthesis button in front of you and thought, no im so self righteous im going to willingly condemn everyone in the galaxy to complete annihilation based on my principles, sure YOU died free but you dragged everyone else kicking and screaming along with you . how is that not genocide?

Read this quote from an article.
By refusing to use the Crucible, Shepard is taking a moral stance – saying that she is willing to play the long game, if that’s what it takes to defeat the Reapers. She is not prepared to write off an entire sentient race as an acceptable cost. She is, in that sense, refusing to think like a Reaper – with their genocidal utilitarianism – or to accept the Reapers’ tools as the only way to deal with them.Without Liara T’Soni’s knowledge, making that choice would be insane. Without Liara T’Soni’s perspective, Shepard would not be able to consider it. But she has both. So, the rejection ending is the ending where Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise. It’s a difficult ending, and certainly a bittersweet one – in all probability, none of the characters we have met over the three games will get to live to a ripe old age surrounded by $alienskintone babies. But it is still a heroic ending – and, thanks to the real hero of Mass Effect, still a hopeful one.

in that case shepard is an egotistical b*stard, he could end the war with minimal casualties but refuses to on the basis of his/her own beliefs, its not up to shepard, he/she has their orders, end the reaper threat, which he/she refuses to do, im sure if hackett had been there with shepard, hacket would have shot the tube before the catalyst had even spoken, so would anderson

shepard should be fighting for the galaxy's right to live, not for his own pride and morals.

Anderson didn't know about the Catalyst and its options/consequences, that doesn't make any sense.

your ignoring the point, i said, if hackett and anderson had been with shepard then (they would have met the catalyst and...) shot the tube

So you believe just because Anderson and Hackett thinks its right, it makes it right. OK.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Hackulator wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

if you choose refusal, yes we loss, but Shepard can’t
be accused for Genocide, when you choose destroy your willingly shooting a tube
knowing it will around 1.5 billion geth, whether you accept your decision or
try to justify by saying it’s just war or being ignorant calling the Geth
toasters it’s up to you, but it’s still Genocide.

So What you're saying is, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will launch a nuclear missile at a country wiping them out, I have committed genocide if I push that button.

HOWEVER, if I am in a room, and pushing a button will STOP a nuclear missile from being fired at a country and wiping them out, and I don't push the button, I have done nothing wrong?

I hope you're like, 9, which is before the point in mental development when your morals have fully formed.

MAOR TROLL LOGIC!

Edit: That wasn't directed to you, hackulator.

Yeah I understood, I'm actually abandoning this thread cause I realized its either pure troll or sub-80 IQ in here.

Your IQ must be low too, because apparently you can't prove this guy with sub-80IQ wrong and instead call him a troll.

[The Heretic of Time]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

so the next cycle can build the Crucible and use it anyway

*Sigh* You do not know this.

We know that
a) one of Liara's beacons surived
and
the information allowed those that found it (female stargazer) to win against the Reapers

That is literally all we know (yeah, clarity... more speculation for everyone!). There is any number of things they could have done to win that wouldn't involve building the Crucible - find a fatal flaw in the Reaper's design based on Sovereign's scans after a few millennia of analysis

Not true.

The new stargazer scene in refusal specifically says that because of Liara's archives, they did not have to fight a war.

Let that sink in for a moment. They did NOT fight a war. That means they've defeated the Reapers without fighting them. How? With the Crucible of course. The BioWare devs confirmed it.

The next cycle after ours used the Crucible if Shepard didn't. Just deal with it. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]So we can win the war without commiting genocide, war crimes, etc? And don't call people trolls just because they dissagree with your opinion.[/quote]
If killing all the Reapers isn't a crime, I doubt controlling all of the Reapers in Control would be considered such either. And even if you kill the geth in Destroy, they'd all die anyway in Refusal. Going down fighting isn't any better than going down not.[/quote]But they died by lossing, not because they were sacrificed after they became you allies just to ensure victory.
[/quote]
It doesn't matter. Not only are they just as dead either way, it's mentioned they can be rebuilt.
[/quote]When its it mentioned they can be rebuilt? Thats reaching for straws, if you can say that, then I can say my Cycle didn't fail when I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers.
[/quote]

The irony.  
I choose refuse because a lot of them survived into the next cycle via stasis chambers. That's you reaching for straws too. Headcanon.

[/quote]Are you so paranoid and huffy that you can't even read what I wrote completely without trying to insult it? I said that if destroyers can say Geth can be rebuild, then I can say  that people survived. I'm personally not saying thats a fact.
[/quote]

But if you throw all the headcanons out the window, fact is at the end of the day, everybody dies in refusal. In destroy, control, and synthesis, however, everybody is still alive. Mostly.
[/quote]The fact is you also commited Genocide (=
[/quote]

And so I did, nothing in this war has been easy so far, why start now? Oh, and I also killed 300,000 Batarians when I blew up a Mass Relay. And I also sacrificed a lot of Alliance lives to save the Council.[/quote]And so my cycle loss, we always stuck to our values, why start now?
[/quote]

And so you loss the game and the cycle continues. Remind me why refusal is the right ending again? 

Rhetorical question by the way.
[/quote]




Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .