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[DEATHSCOPE]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?

[Ryzaki]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Hendrik.III wrote...

Die free doesn't mean a g-damn thing. Dead is dead. There is no freedom in death.

Choosing death over life for a principle, so often showed in movies and books, is the stupidest thing you can do. Freedom is but an illusion anyway. There's no glory in dying like an idiot when you could have saved trillions of people including yourself. Survival is the only thing that counts - since death will find you one day anyway. There's no reason not to try the alternative. You'd better pick a colour, soldier!

There is more to life than Survival.

How? If you're being led to extinction, survival means more than anything.

No actually it doesn't not always, not for everyone.

EDI gives you examples of people who did things that were anti-survival if anything during the Reaper war.

[dweller]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

you're sure, you're sure... you keep repeating that, but please, for the 3rd time, tell me what do you base that certainty on?

[Khajiit Jzargo]

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Oh geez this guy again. Arguing the same crap he was the other day. Move along.

Who are you, should i recognise from anywhere?

yeah I was the guy who spanked you and your dumb reasoning along with a bunch of other people a couple days ago. I'd try to block out the beating you took as well if I was you.

Actually I found the thread, and I remember me proving you completely wrong, do you wanna go at it again or pretend to say something that didn't happen.

[CrutchCricket]

SMichelle wrote...
Maybe being a Reaper isn't so bad.  They've got cool laser beams and everything! 

Controlling them is better. Then you get ALL the laser beams!

[DEATHSCOPE]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

[carrmatt91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dweller wrote...

So you're basing your opinion on what the entire galaxy wants on what? Where did the population of the entire galaxy state that they want to defeat the Reapers ONLY on their terms?

You think every man, woman and child in the galaxy would agree with your opinion? You don't think they would rather live instead of "dying free"?

Seriously dude, you've got a choice here: sacrifice the Geth and EDI and save everyone else, or do nothing and let them all die because you were afraid of doing something immoral. Yes, afraid. Say it however you want, it doesn't change the fact that you were scared of doing something simply because it wasn't a pure paragon choice.

Your choice of inaction is an action in itself, because you chose a fourth path on your own, and in that case I believe I can safely say that refusal is the most renegade action of all, because it embodies selfishness more than any other choice that's given to you.

Sometimes you just have to step up and take responsibility for everyone else, however wrong it might seem at first. Letting an entire galaxy die because you don't want to dirty your hands by killing a race is irresponsibility and selfishness at its best.

If the entire galaxy rather die than to sacrifice anyone, then yeah, I'm basing my opinion on what the Galaxy wants....We're in this till the end.

seriously final comment from me, but i just couldn't resist.


the entre galaxy didn't agree to that! hell the turians and krogans sacrificed their own people by putting tac-nukes inside reaper facilities during suicide missions, and couple that with the fact that the geth (asside from legion) have been killing almost everyone thats not a geth for the past 2 games i really dont think the entire galaxy apart from the normandy crew gives a rats a** about the geth

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?

[/quote]

I don't know why I was in custody, its called bad writing, and also My Shep has always won on his terms.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Ryzaki wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Hendrik.III wrote...

Die free doesn't mean a g-damn thing. Dead is dead. There is no freedom in death.

Choosing death over life for a principle, so often showed in movies and books, is the stupidest thing you can do. Freedom is but an illusion anyway. There's no glory in dying like an idiot when you could have saved trillions of people including yourself. Survival is the only thing that counts - since death will find you one day anyway. There's no reason not to try the alternative. You'd better pick a colour, soldier!

There is more to life than Survival.

How? If you're being led to extinction, survival means more than anything.

No actually it doesn't not always, not for everyone.

EDI gives you examples of people who did things that were anti-survival if anything during the Reaper war.

Yes, but only a few. That seems to include OP, but for most sentience species, survival is everything.

[Ryzaki]

Honestly? Screw the Salarians. Those bastards barely helped anyway!

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

dweller wrote...

So you're basing your opinion on what the entire galaxy wants on what? Where did the population of the entire galaxy state that they want to defeat the Reapers ONLY on their terms?

You think every man, woman and child in the galaxy would agree with your opinion? You don't think they would rather live instead of "dying free"?

Seriously dude, you've got a choice here: sacrifice the Geth and EDI and save everyone else, or do nothing and let them all die because you were afraid of doing something immoral. Yes, afraid. Say it however you want, it doesn't change the fact that you were scared of doing something simply because it wasn't a pure paragon choice.

Your choice of inaction is an action in itself, because you chose a fourth path on your own, and in that case I believe I can safely say that refusal is the most renegade action of all, because it embodies selfishness more than any other choice that's given to you.

Sometimes you just have to step up and take responsibility for everyone else, however wrong it might seem at first. Letting an entire galaxy die because you don't want to dirty your hands by killing a race is irresponsibility and selfishness at its best.

If the entire galaxy rather die than to sacrifice anyone, then yeah, I'm basing my opinion on what the Galaxy wants....We're in this till the end.

seriously final comment from me, but i just couldn't resist.


the entre galaxy didn't agree to that! hell the turians and krogans sacrificed their own people by putting tac-nukes inside reaper facilities during suicide missions, and couple that with the fact that the geth (asside from legion) have been killing almost everyone thats not a geth for the past 2 games i really dont think the entire galaxy apart from the normandy crew gives a rats a** about the geth

The Krogan and Turians are sacrificing each other in Palaven, the Geth and Quarians are working together and helping each other out, The galaxy is united. even Anderson and Hackett says so.

[Ryzaki]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Yes, but only a few. That seems to include OP, but for most sentience species, survival is everything.

And Shepard might be one of those people. It doesn't make him self righteous automatically. Naive? Maybe. Idealistic? DEFINTELY. But by means self righteous is automatic from making the refuse choice. For all we know Shep might be paranoid it's a big reaper trap after he sees starbrat. Maybe he's wrong. So what. Doesn't make him self righteous just paranoid (in that situation).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:30 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

That was then not now....A lot of things have changed.

[The Heretic of Time]

mrfinke wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

so the next cycle can build the Crucible and use it anyway

*Sigh* You do not know this.

We know that
a) one of Liara's beacons surived
and
the information allowed those that found it (female stargazer) to win against the Reapers

That is literally all we know (yeah, clarity... more speculation for everyone!). There is any number of things they could have done to win that wouldn't involve building the Crucible - find a fatal flaw in the Reaper's design based on Sovereign's scans after a few millennia of analysis

Not true.

The new stargazer scene in refusal specifically says that because of Liara's archives, they did not have to fight a war.

Let that sink in for a moment. They did NOT fight a war. That means they've defeated the Reapers without fighting them. How? With the Crucible of course. The BioWare devs confirmed it.

The next cycle after ours used the Crucible if Shepard didn't. Just deal with it. 

Liara also says that the crucible did not work in stopping the reapers. So either the cycle found another way to stop them or they put their faith in something that they were told did not work.

Or they were smart and figured out why the Crucible didn't work. Then fixed it or enhance it's design wherever nescessary, and then use the damn think to defeat the Reapers without the need to fight them.

And like I said, the devs confirmed the next cycle used the Crucible, so it's an establish fact. No sense in denying it.

[DEATHSCOPE]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?

[/quote]

I don't know why I was in custody, its called bad writing, and also My Shep has always won on his terms.

[/quote]

Yes, and your Shepard seems to think that the world revolves around him.

"I don't trust the Star-Child. He seems shady. Well, time to condemn the whole galaxy by shooting it in the face."

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dweller wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

you're sure, you're sure... you keep repeating that, but please, for the 3rd time, tell me what do you base that certainty on?

The fact that Turians helped Krogan on shroud, krogans are dying to save turians on palaven, quarian/geth treaty, hanar and drell working together, anderson states it, and all races working together at the end. that fits unity to me.

[dweller]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Ryzaki wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Yes, but only a few. That seems to include OP, but for most sentience species, survival is everything.

And Shepard might be one of those people. It doesn't make him self righteous automatically. Naive? Maybe. Idealistic? DEFINTELY. But by means self righteous is automatic from making the refuse choice. For all we know Shep might be paranoid it's a big reaper trap after he sees starbrat. Maybe he's wrong. So what. Doesn't make him self righteous just paranoid (in that situation).

Good point. I see what you did there. 

[DirtySHISN0]

Implying equally flawed endings aren't equally flawed.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?

[/quote]

I don't know why I was in custody, its called bad writing, and also My Shep has always won on his terms.

[/quote]

Yes, and your Shepard seems to think that the world revolves around him.

"I don't trust the Star-Child. He seems shady. Well, time to condemn the whole galaxy by shooting it in the face."

[/quote]

No my Shepard believes in the principles and the agreement Galaxy agreed too.

[SMichelle]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?



I don't know why I was in custody, its called bad writing, and also My Shep has always won on his terms.

That's right!  If OP doesn't like it - it didn't happen.  I'm sure your Shepard was in custody for....errr...stealing that fish on the Presidium....or was it getting drunk in the Dark Star?  My Shep did that.  That's why she was in custody.


What?



It's the truth I tell you.  She got drunk in the Dark Star, she woke up in the bathroom, and that damn Turian reported her.


Bastard!

Modifié par SMichelle, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:36 .

[babachewie]

http://social.biowar...ndex/12905725/5 You tried taking over this thread too with Refusal nonsense and got torn apart here too. I guess you wanted to prove how wrong you are again.

[dweller]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

Uh. Why were you in custody at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 then? You're avoiding my points, like always. I stated that victory at all costs is what Shepard has been doing all three games. Why stop at the ending?

[/quote]

I don't know why I was in custody, its called bad writing, and also My Shep has always won on his terms.

[/quote]

Yes, and your Shepard seems to think that the world revolves around him.

"I don't trust the Star-Child. He seems shady. Well, time to condemn the whole galaxy by shooting it in the face."

[/quote]

No my Shepard believes in the principles and the agreement Galaxy agreed too.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Again, you claim the galaxy agreed to it. 

Stop using that arguement unless you can back it up with sources from the game please, otherwise people will just start dismissing you as a troll.

Modifié par dweller, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:35 .

[Ryzaki]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Yes, but only a few. That seems to include OP, but for most sentience species, survival is everything.

And Shepard might be one of those people. It doesn't make him self righteous automatically. Naive? Maybe. Idealistic? DEFINTELY. But by means self righteous is automatic from making the refuse choice. For all we know Shep might be paranoid it's a big reaper trap after he sees starbrat. Maybe he's wrong. So what. Doesn't make him self righteous just paranoid (in that situation).

Good point. I see what you did there. 

LOL (surprised you could understand that with the rambling way I posted it).

Honestly I spent most of the game hoping it was a Reaper trap. But then my face when I realized it was legit. Then the starbrat...and then I think my poor brain broke.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:36 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dweller wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master_Smurf wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.

Not really; you gave up.

Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

Just because one person out everyone agrees its should be done, doesn't mean the rest of the people do. Just like american civilians didn't believe in the vietnam wars even though nixon did.