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[Esquin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Esquin wrote...
No see that's the thing. The only reason to assume the crucible is legit is because a REAPER tells you it is. Why on earth would you trust anything that a reaper says to you?

That's what this comes down to. In that moment, standing there with the catalyst you have no reason at all to believe that anything it is saying is the truth. It admits to being a reaper. There is no reason to believe that the options it offers are legitimate. Or that anything it tells you about those options is the truth. In fact it's more likely that it's lying to you and this is another manipulation so that the reapers can control you. 

The only logial option is to walk away from what is obviously a trap. Forget what happens in the endings. You don't get to make chocies using hind sight. There, in that moment, the only real option is to assume that the crucible is a reaper trap. 

A. I'm talking about me me me not Shepard.
B. This was in the Original Endings. There was no walk away ending without critical mission failure.

A. I'm talking about what a person in Shepards position there could reasonably know. And given the knowledge they could have there is no way that a sane person would trust the options given.

B. I'm not saying we should be able to win. Just that it's the only logical option. The only choice at that time without being able to predict the future is to go away, destroy the citadel and hope for the best. That's your only real choice here. There are ways for the next cycle to win and personally i'd rather give the next cycle a damn good chance then submit our cycle to reaper control through the crucible, which for all I know is just another way for them to win.

[Ryzaki]

Okay I'm getting really irritated.

First Refuse isn't GIVING UP. It's deciding not to use the Crucible. If you're too stupid to tell the difference please STFU your ignorance is painful.

You can see it as stupid and idiotic sure whatever.

It however doesn't equal giving up. It equals taking a crazy gamble (and losing) but Shep DOES try to defy the Reapers (save BW deciding to say FU and have Shep stand there like a chump) 

Second enough with the goddamn Hitler comparisons.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:54 .

[dweller]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Master_Smurf wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.[/quote]
Not really; you gave up.[/quote] Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?
[/quote]

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

[/quote]I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.
[/quote]

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

[/quote]


I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

[/quote]Just because one person out everyone agrees its should be done, doesn't mean the rest of the people do. Just like american civilians didn't believe in the vietnam wars even though nixon did.
[/quote]

For the 5th. F***ing. Time. 

Point me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your "we'd rather die free" bull.

[/quote]Point to me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your" we'd rather commit genocide to live free" bull.
[/quote]

They don't. That's been exactly my point this entire time. 

All this time you've been claiming your choice is better because the galaxy agrees with you. Finally, you admit it doesn't.

Now please, think about it. You have to make a choice that will have an impact throughout the entire galaxy. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that you have the right to doom everyone to death because YOU think they would rather go out that way, or make the hard, seemingly immoral though obviously better for the greater good choice of sacrificing a race to let them live?

You have to make that choice, and the entire galaxy's fate is now your responsibility. Don't act rashly based on your selfish moral needs.

[/quote]No I just admitted to their not being a damn cutscene, are you so incompetent to make your own opinions based on what you see and hear during the events of the game. Clearly Anderson and Hackett both say the Galaxy is united, Quarians and Geth are at peace helping each other out, Asari are neutral, Hanar and Drell are working together, and Primarch Victus talks about how the Krogans and Turian alliance is blooming. Figures....
[/quote]

The whole galaxy is united, yes.

For the cause of destroying the reapers.

EVERYONE is hell-bent on revenge, on payback for what the reapers've done to their homeworlds.

It is completely irresponsible to force everyone to die simply because YOU believe it would be "morally right to die free". If you really cannot see that, then you're either stupid, or a very, very clever troll.

[Esquin]

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

And I'm sure the other races are patting you on the back when you chose refusal.

"Hey, that was great. So, you had a chance to save the galaxy but didn't? It's alright, we forgive you."

At least in destroy I had a chance. 50% is better than 0% (ie. giving up).

Without using anything that happens in after your final choice i'd like you to prove that what the catalyst tells you about the crucible is the truth. Keeping in mind that nothing the catalyst says can be trusted since it is a reaper.

Go.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

The sign of a desperate debater when they start using hitler. Fox News would be proud.

The Hitler was just a touch, but I was right, You either fail or commit Genocide, so how am i wrong?

[Xilizhra]

It however doesn't equal giving up. It equals taking a crazy gamble (and losing) but Shep DOES try to defy the Reapers (save BW deciding to say FU and have Shep stand there like a chump)

And that is, in fact, what Shepard does and what Shepard's choice is. Like it or not.

[Daidarus]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

The developers confirmed that the actions made in LOTSB/Arrival happen by default even if you didn't download them. So you are wrong, your shepard did in fact kill 300,000 batarians just to slow the reapers down whether you like it or not. Your Shepard has already commited genocide. Technically if you are arguing between refuse and destroy, it's a question of which is a larger genocide. Everyone or EDI+Geth? You are commiting a larger genocide by refusing to destory.

[dweller]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

I'm amused that the person to destroyed everyone is busting out the Hitler comments.

Heil, moron.

also, QFT

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Master_Smurf wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.[/quote]
Not really; you gave up.[/quote] Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?
[/quote]

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

[/quote]I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.
[/quote]

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

[/quote]


I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

[/quote]Just because one person out everyone agrees its should be done, doesn't mean the rest of the people do. Just like american civilians didn't believe in the vietnam wars even though nixon did.
[/quote]

For the 5th. F***ing. Time. 

Point me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your "we'd rather die free" bull.

[/quote]Point to me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your" we'd rather commit genocide to live free" bull.
[/quote]

They don't. That's been exactly my point this entire time. 

All this time you've been claiming your choice is better because the galaxy agrees with you. Finally, you admit it doesn't.

Now please, think about it. You have to make a choice that will have an impact throughout the entire galaxy. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that you have the right to doom everyone to death because YOU think they would rather go out that way, or make the hard, seemingly immoral though obviously better for the greater good choice of sacrificing a race to let them live?

You have to make that choice, and the entire galaxy's fate is now your responsibility. Don't act rashly based on your selfish moral needs.

[/quote]No I just admitted to their not being a damn cutscene, are you so incompetent to make your own opinions based on what you see and hear during the events of the game. Clearly Anderson and Hackett both say the Galaxy is united, Quarians and Geth are at peace helping each other out, Asari are neutral, Hanar and Drell are working together, and Primarch Victus talks about how the Krogans and Turian alliance is blooming. Figures....
[/quote]

The whole galaxy is united, yes.

For the cause of destroying the reapers.

EVERYONE is hell-bent on revenge, on payback for what the reapers've done to their homeworlds.

It is completely irresponsible to force everyone to die simply because YOU believe it would be "morally right to die free". If you really cannot see that, then you're either stupid, or a very, very clever troll.
[/quote]The whole galaxy is united to the point they won't sacrifice anyone just to live, its not my choice once again, its the galaxy's choice.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...

And that is, in fact, what Shepard does and what Shepard's choice is. Like it or not.

No it's not. The screen goes to black. For all you know Shep could decide to stand tall after that and start giving orders.

Like it or not.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:57 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

dweller wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

I'm amused that the person to destroyed everyone is busting out the Hitler comments.

Heil, moron.

also, QFT

Really, I didn't destroy anyone, we loss by dying, you commited genocide, you wanna commit war crimes right?

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And that is, in fact, what Shepard does and what Shepard's choice is. Like it or not.

No it's not. The screen goes to black. For all you know Shep could decide to stand tall after that and start giving orders.

Like it or not.

To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

[ATLAS1192]

Esquin wrote...

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

Esquin wrote...

No see that's the thing. The only reason to assume the crucible is legit is because a REAPER tells you it is. Why on earth would you trust anything that a reaper says to you?

That's what this comes down to. In that moment, standing there with the catalyst you have no reason at all to believe that anything it is saying is the truth. It admits to being a reaper. There is no reason to believe that the options it offers are legitimate. Or that anything it tells you about those options is the truth. In fact it's more likely that it's lying to you and this is another manipulation so that the reapers can control you. 

The only logial option is to walk away from what is obviously a trap. Forget what happens in the endings. You don't get to make chocies using hind sight. There, in that moment, the only real option is to assume that the crucible is a reaper trap. 

What about when everyone found out that the Relays and Citadel were created by Reapers? Did everyone just kind of STOP using them? No. That point is now moot. Try again.

There is a big difference between using forms of transport constructed by the reapers and changing the nature of all life in the galaxy based on their word. 

We're at war here. Using the relays is like Americans using German roads in WW2. 

Using the crucible is like letting Hitler tell you what your options are for winning the war and then doing exactly what he tells you. All the time believing that suddenly he'd turned into some kind of benevolent individual who loves you.

Are we allowing Hitler into ending arguments now? How can I defend myself against these comparisons?

[Esquin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And that is, in fact, what Shepard does and what Shepard's choice is. Like it or not.

No it's not. The screen goes to black. For all you know Shep could decide to stand tall after that and start giving orders.

Like it or not.

My Shepard called the Normandy. Told them that the crucible is a trap and that the AI controlling the reapers is based in the citadel.

The next cycle then destroyed the citadel, never built the crucible, and met the Reaper fleet at the edge of the galaxy with a fleet of dreadnaughts armed with advanced thanix cannons. All udner the instruction of the children of our Asari lifeboat that we sent into the next cycle.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Esquin wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...



Oh my god. You are just contradicting yourself.

Replace Nixon with Shepard, Shepard believes in refusal, the rest of the people in the galaxy doesn't. Yet, you want to make that decision for them? Seriously man?

But you think they'd agree to having their biology fundamentally altered to turn them into an entierly new form of life?

Grow up.

The only option is refusal because it's the only option where we know the results. We have no idea what the crucible will do except that on some level it is under the control of the reapers. I personally don't trust the reapers and I don't want to give them another way to control us.

Do you trust the reapers?

Yeah, the result is that we lose and the whole galaxy is doomed. The cycles continue in refusal. I would take a chance and shoot the tube.

Knowing that you will either fail or commit genocide, I'm sure hitler is smiling upon you.

And I'm sure the other races are patting you on the back when you chose refusal.

"Hey, that was great. So, you had a chance to save the galaxy but didn't? It's alright, we forgive you."

At least in destroy I had a chance. 50% is better than 0% (ie. giving up).

Without using anything that happens in after your final choice i'd like you to prove that what the catalyst tells you about the crucible is the truth. Keeping in mind that nothing the catalyst says can be trusted since it is a reaper.

Go.

I never said that I trusted the Catalyst nor think what it was saying was true. I used the Crucible on a gamble. Did you even read my post? It was either the Catalyst is lying, in which we would lose. Or it was telling the truth, in which we would win. 50% chance.

Refusal is stepping away from that, in which you would have a 0% chance of winning since beating the Reapers can't be done conventionally.

[dweller]

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Master_Smurf wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.[/quote]
Not really; you gave up.[/quote] Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?
[/quote]

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

[/quote]I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.
[/quote]

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

[/quote]


I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

[/quote]Just because one person out everyone agrees its should be done, doesn't mean the rest of the people do. Just like american civilians didn't believe in the vietnam wars even though nixon did.
[/quote]

For the 5th. F***ing. Time. 

Point me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your "we'd rather die free" bull.

[/quote]Point to me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your" we'd rather commit genocide to live free" bull.
[/quote]

They don't. That's been exactly my point this entire time. 

All this time you've been claiming your choice is better because the galaxy agrees with you. Finally, you admit it doesn't.

Now please, think about it. You have to make a choice that will have an impact throughout the entire galaxy. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that you have the right to doom everyone to death because YOU think they would rather go out that way, or make the hard, seemingly immoral though obviously better for the greater good choice of sacrificing a race to let them live?

You have to make that choice, and the entire galaxy's fate is now your responsibility. Don't act rashly based on your selfish moral needs.

[/quote]No I just admitted to their not being a damn cutscene, are you so incompetent to make your own opinions based on what you see and hear during the events of the game. Clearly Anderson and Hackett both say the Galaxy is united, Quarians and Geth are at peace helping each other out, Asari are neutral, Hanar and Drell are working together, and Primarch Victus talks about how the Krogans and Turian alliance is blooming. Figures....
[/quote]

The whole galaxy is united, yes.

For the cause of destroying the reapers.

EVERYONE is hell-bent on revenge, on payback for what the reapers've done to their homeworlds.

It is completely irresponsible to force everyone to die simply because YOU believe it would be "morally right to die free". If you really cannot see that, then you're either stupid, or a very, very clever troll.
[/quote]The whole galaxy is united to the point they won't sacrifice anyone just to live, its not my choice once again, its the galaxy's choice.
[/quote]

And once again, you claim the galaxy chose it when there is no source that supports this claim.

You sir, are a troll, and anyone who continues trying to keep up a well-backed, logical debate with you is stupid, because every one of your posts I've read is far from either of these attributes.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]Daidarus wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[/quote]Because we stuck to our agreement and didn't betray it. Shepard stays true to her principles, refuses to compromise and places her trust in her current cycle not to want victory at any cost, and the cycles to come to defeat the Reapers without having to compromise[/quote]

I don't even know why I'm still here but here goes.

Shepard killed 300,000 Batarians, just to halt the Reapers' advances. Just to slow them down. 300,000 dead. Victory at all costs is a underlying theme throughout all three games. Leaving a squadmate behind on Virmire, etc. Refusing does not fit with Shepard's character.
[/quote]For one My shep never did that, I never downloaded Arrival, secondly 300,000 does not equal 1.5 billion.
[/quote]

The developers confirmed that the actions made in LOTSB/Arrival happen by default even if you didn't download them. So you are wrong, your shepard did in fact kill 300,000 batarians just to slow the reapers down whether you like it or not. Your Shepard has already commited genocide. Technically if you are arguing between refuse and destroy, it's a question of which is a larger genocide. Everyone or EDI+Geth? You are commiting a larger genocide by refusing to destory.
[/quote]

They do happen but not by Shepard, If arrival was not downloaded Hackett sends a group of alliance ops elite, if LOSBT was never downloaded Liara hired mercanaries but Feron dies. Please know what your saying before you type it on the screen, im not arguing this any further as its stupid, just look it up if you need confirmation.

[Esquin]

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

Esquin wrote...

xBl4ck0p5x wrote...

Esquin wrote...

No see that's the thing. The only reason to assume the crucible is legit is because a REAPER tells you it is. Why on earth would you trust anything that a reaper says to you?

That's what this comes down to. In that moment, standing there with the catalyst you have no reason at all to believe that anything it is saying is the truth. It admits to being a reaper. There is no reason to believe that the options it offers are legitimate. Or that anything it tells you about those options is the truth. In fact it's more likely that it's lying to you and this is another manipulation so that the reapers can control you. 

The only logial option is to walk away from what is obviously a trap. Forget what happens in the endings. You don't get to make chocies using hind sight. There, in that moment, the only real option is to assume that the crucible is a reaper trap. 

What about when everyone found out that the Relays and Citadel were created by Reapers? Did everyone just kind of STOP using them? No. That point is now moot. Try again.

There is a big difference between using forms of transport constructed by the reapers and changing the nature of all life in the galaxy based on their word. 

We're at war here. Using the relays is like Americans using German roads in WW2. 

Using the crucible is like letting Hitler tell you what your options are for winning the war and then doing exactly what he tells you. All the time believing that suddenly he'd turned into some kind of benevolent individual who loves you.

Are we allowing Hitler into ending arguments now? How can I defend myself against these comparisons?

It's an accurate comparison. We're talking about a group who want's to commit galactic genocide and you're about to do exactly what they tell you to do and trust that they suddenly have your best interests at heart. The fact that you can't present any reasons why you could trust the catalyst say's it all really.

[Moshaaver]

Picking Refusal is choosing death. It's choosing defeat.

[Fauxnormal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay I'm getting really irritated.

First Refuse isn't GIVING UP. It's deciding not to use the Crucible. If you're too stupid to tell the difference please STFU your ignorance is painful.

You can see it as stupid and idiotic sure whatever.

It however doesn't equal giving up. It equals taking a crazy gamble (and losing) but Shep DOES try to defy the Reapers (save BW deciding to say FU and have Shep stand there like a chump) 

Second enough with the goddamn Hitler comparisons.

Refuse is giving up and killing everyone.

Period.

Modifié par Fauxnormal, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:01 .

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

[Ryzaki]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay I'm getting really irritated.

First Refuse isn't GIVING UP. It's deciding not to use the Crucible. If you're too stupid to tell the difference please STFU your ignorance is painful.

You can see it as stupid and idiotic sure whatever.

It however doesn't equal giving up. It equals taking a crazy gamble (and losing) but Shep DOES try to defy the Reapers (save BW deciding to say FU and have Shep stand there like a chump) 

Second enough with the goddamn Hitler comparisons.

Refuse is giving up and killing everyone.

Period.

You can bleet that to the end of time. Doesn't make it anymore true.

[dweller]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

This is a discussion of the Refuse and Destroy endings, not the monstrosity that is the Synthesis ending. Please don't compare.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]dweller wrote...

[quote]DEATHSCOPE wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Master_Smurf wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]I'm not condemming anyone, I'm fighting the Reapers.[/quote]
Not really; you gave up.[/quote] Explain how, I agreed to fight the Reapers, by rejecting the Catalyst options, I'm fighting with him and the Reapers, so how did I give up?
[/quote]

You're about to keel over and die, everyone you know and many more are about to get harvested and the only species left behind will be the non-space frearing ones.

All that you were so righteously fighting for, all the people that believed in you and came together to assist you are about to become reaper building blocks.

[/quote]I'm sure they rather die as united galaxy than to sell someone out.
[/quote]

No they wouldn't. The Salarians and the Turians even sterilized the Krogan when they thought they couldn't win. They would happily sell out the Geth if it means winning.

[/quote]


I agree with this.

Just imagine a conversation with Hackett during the time you were deciding which ending to choose...

Do you think he'd say something along the lines of:
"So we can survive if we kill the geth and EDI? Ah screw it, I'd rather die than live with that."
or:
"Listen, I know it's a difficult choice, but the lives of the entire galaxy are riding on your decision. Don't make us all die based on your assumptions of what everyone wants and because you didn't want to dirty your hands."

Hell I believe even the geth would agree to this in order to save everyone. Don't be so irrational.

[/quote]Just because one person out everyone agrees its should be done, doesn't mean the rest of the people do. Just like american civilians didn't believe in the vietnam wars even though nixon did.
[/quote]

For the 5th. F***ing. Time. 

Point me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your "we'd rather die free" bull.

[/quote]Point to me to the video that shows the cutscene where the galaxy agreed to your" we'd rather commit genocide to live free" bull.
[/quote]

They don't. That's been exactly my point this entire time. 

All this time you've been claiming your choice is better because the galaxy agrees with you. Finally, you admit it doesn't.

Now please, think about it. You have to make a choice that will have an impact throughout the entire galaxy. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that you have the right to doom everyone to death because YOU think they would rather go out that way, or make the hard, seemingly immoral though obviously better for the greater good choice of sacrificing a race to let them live?

You have to make that choice, and the entire galaxy's fate is now your responsibility. Don't act rashly based on your selfish moral needs.

[/quote]No I just admitted to their not being a damn cutscene, are you so incompetent to make your own opinions based on what you see and hear during the events of the game. Clearly Anderson and Hackett both say the Galaxy is united, Quarians and Geth are at peace helping each other out, Asari are neutral, Hanar and Drell are working together, and Primarch Victus talks about how the Krogans and Turian alliance is blooming. Figures....
[/quote]

The whole galaxy is united, yes.

For the cause of destroying the reapers.

EVERYONE is hell-bent on revenge, on payback for what the reapers've done to their homeworlds.

It is completely irresponsible to force everyone to die simply because YOU believe it would be "morally right to die free". If you really cannot see that, then you're either stupid, or a very, very clever troll.
[/quote]The whole galaxy is united to the point they won't sacrifice anyone just to live, its not my choice once again, its the galaxy's choice.
[/quote]

And once again, you claim the galaxy chose it when there is no source that supports this claim.

You sir, are a troll, and anyone who continues trying to keep up a well-backed, logical debate with you is stupid, because every one of your posts I've read is far from either of these attributes.

[/quote]You seem to be getting huffy sir.....Anyway, Like I said before my claim is everything that happens during the events of my ME playtrough, I already listed them and you just call me a troll because I dissagree with you, look up a few post ahead and I gave you my reasons and you just ignored, you failed at defending your point and you refer to petty insults to try to keep up your pride.

[Fauxnormal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
To whom? From where? Even if it's not giving up on the war entirely, it's giving up any hope of doing anything useful. It's willful denial of every bit of knowledge you've thus far accumulated.

*shrugs* 

Maybe it is.

Doesn't make it self-righteous.

It's a perfectly valid choice. Like your garbage mass body violation synthesis.

Awww, the buttburt kidlet's going to attack the popular thing to attack.

Cute!

Here's a tip; at least they're still alive. ^.^

You know.

As opposed to husks.

or dead.