31 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

Building your party correctly is the most challenging part of the game?.

dont get me wrong, to me, the game is challenging on its own, but i had an extremely difficult time with the game until i found out it was how i was building my characters.

Since then iv tried a few diffrent ways of building each class, none of them allow me to steamroll through the game mind you, each have serious draw backs.

Warriors: either i build them dextarity based or constitution based and it seems like both have some serious issues at times, my dex warriors get owned by any sort of magic really, and if i get bad rolls and they are getting hit a lot they are a little bit squishy. My constitution warriors can stand up to magic, grabs, high volumes of damage, but they suck at long battles because though they have a huge health bar they are constantly getting hit, its hard to heal through that. Iv also tried mixing the two, focusing on both but that is actually the weakest way because you end up not having that much health and not being able to dodge exceptionally well either.

iv also looked at multiple interviews regarding this subject and one (which i posted somewhere else) stated that warriors were meant to focus on constitution, but then other places, like the guidebook and their manual state that warriors are supposed to be very dextarious and have a lot of willpower. Though i havnt tried this build yet.

Rogues: They seem to be almost the same build type as warriors if the manual is correct..except instead of willpower theres cunning in there..

Mages are self explanatory, but im finding that just building my party (my warriors and rogues in particular) is extremely challenging...it almost seems like they are supposed to have a high stat rating in..well..everything.

But iv found that splitting your stats into anything more then 3 is just suicide, and even focusing on 3 stats spreads your points pretty thin. By focusing on STR/CON/DEX for a warrior one time through the highest i got him was 42 str, i think like 35 dex, and like 34 con.

And Dex doesnt really kick as being all powerfull until you hit the 40-50 range.

Anyone else find just building your party very challenging? (especially since you cant just go back and change them, if you dont build them right you will be screwed later in the game unless you have some spells and potions to constantly save your tank).

[Steel Majere343]

anyone?

[B33ker]

The class makeup of the party seems to be more of a deciding factor in how hard the gameplay is at a given level. Use 2-3 mages and it's a cakewalk for intstance.



I've had a lot of fun using oddball combinations just to see how things go, and often gotten slaughtered, but I've also hit on some combinations that worked surprisingly well.



It can be a lot of fun to experiment and try to make the most of what each character offers, plus the random banter between certain characters is comedy gold.

[KariTR]

Didnt we do this all yesterday Steel?



I posted in your other thread to help you find it



http://social.biowar.../index/440571/1

[MusukoYo]

Disclaimer: I haven't played on Nightmare yet, just varying amounts of Easy/Normal/Hard.



I don't really see the point of concentrating on Constitution for anyone but the tank. If you get Force Field on your mage, you can snatch virtually anyone from the jaws of death (it seems to fire off even faster than a potion). That, combined with a mage with the Spirit Healer specialization and potion-quaffing tactics, will keep your party alive through just about anything. To that end, I don't bother with Constitution at all on any character.

[Steel Majere343]

lol this is diffrent than that topic. here im asking who finds it a challenge, not necessarily asking about the builds themselves.



iv found stat upgrading a FAR more important variable then what classes are in your party actually.



iv gotn wiped with two spirit healers before simply because my tank was built the oposite way the game expected him to be built.



yea theres potions but i like to restrict myself from making hundreds of them. its just not fun to me at all to just chug potions.



iv started a new game and iv been paying close attention to how the auto level distributes points.

and it hasnt bittn me in the butt yet, granted im not very far on this playthrough.



but so far it seems to be focusing on dextarity and willpower for warriors, heavy on strength as well but it doesnt upgrade it every level.



im guessing auto level was designed so that you dont have to worry about upgrading your characters in a horrible fashion according to the games mechanics. SO, im gonna try auto level and see how balanced the game is by..say..orzammar.

[brelrande]

I found curtain character builds to be very challenging.

tanking for me was the easiest, next in line a DW rogue/ambusher

the hardest for me was the mage, it took me about 3 tries to get a decent build for my mage. My PC mage has mostly CC spells with back up heals and support spells, and it is awesome, im also playing on hard which adds a bit of a challenge.

[Steel Majere343]

So iv been thinking about this a bit, this whole stat upgrade thing.

i searched for tips on youtube and came across a guy who had an intresting idea. which i wanted to share here to see if you guys think it would work. i think iv heard it said somewhere around the forums also but im not sure.



if you seperate the classes into what specific JOB you want them to do in your group, and focus on the two stats that help that job the most.



WARRIOR: Either hes a damager or a defender, defenders go STR and DEX with minor points into willpower and constitution (by minor i mean like 1 point every so often). Damagers would go STR and WILL as their main focus's. Since they dont really need the dex or con (they wont be the main focus here, just heavy hitters).



ROGUE: Either far range or close range, close range go STR and DEX since you will need the STR requirements for the higher tier armors and such. Far range go DEX and CUN. you wont need any of that strength to wield the bows, so you can poor all of your stats into cunning, then with lethality later on you can substitute your STR for CUN which will cause bows to do even more damage plus the armor penetration. also not to mention, idk if this is coincedence or what, the abilities that require cunning for rogues work better if they are ranged. You still get the critical hit multiplier if you use a bow while stealthed, so you dont have to leave your party and go up close to melee them. If you are close range you wont need stealth as much.



MAGE: Doesnt matter you will be focusing on WILL and MAGIC no matter what. If you want to get technical though it is possible to optimize them i think by seperating them into either buffers or damagers. Buffers would put more emphasis on WILL and damagers on MAGIC.

but thats hard to do because its hard to discriminate between what spells you get. Often some buffs are found at the end of a chain that has 1 or 2 attack spells or vice versa. For instance, a damager mage would want death cloud. Death cloud is at the end of a tree involving mostly buff types of moves.



so thats a bit harder to cleave into diffrent types. But im excited to hear about the rogue and warrior idea, i dont want to poor dozens of hours into it to have them suck though so please. feedback.

[I ReVaNChisT I]

unless you do something completely retarded like wasting a huge number a points on attributes(e.g. magic and cunning if you are a warrior) and spread your talent points around( getting half the 2 hander line and some in dual wield when you primarily use a sword n board) then chances are your char will be atleast decent, its commen sense really.

[Steel Majere343]

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

unless you do something completely retarded like wasting a huge number a points on attributes(e.g. magic and cunning if you are a warrior) and spread your talent points around( getting half the 2 hander line and some in dual wield when you primarily use a sword n board) then chances are your char will be atleast decent, its commen sense really.

iv found this to be..almost 100%..false lol.

i once put a whole bunch of points into dex and constitution and str for a warrior. Just those three spread him out too thin, yes i eventually beat the game but he sucked. and i mean SUCKED.
its not as easy to just make a decent character as you say. by decent warrior i mean a warrior that can take on the hordes the game throws at you and survive. You cant just throw points around for that to happen lol.

anyways i was looking for feedback on my idea above really.

iv tried what you say is so easy, and iv cursed myself 80+hours later to find that i was building him all wrong. i would get to orzammar and my main tank would be getting owned completely. not even the heal spell could save them.

the only way i beat the game at that point was buying hundreds of potions. it was dumb and not very fun. At that point in the game i like when i can look back and look at my party and actually feel like they are solid.

So no, you cant just put points into anything that sounds usefull and call it good, you will end up with the oposite of good characters, trust me, its why im here lol.

[Naxarrath]

ROGUE: Either far range or close range, close range go STR and DEX since you will need the STR requirements for the higher tier armors and such. Far range go DEX and CUN. you wont need any of that strength to wield the bows, so you can poor all of your stats into cunning, then with lethality later on you can substitute your STR for CUN which will cause bows to do even more damage plus the armor penetration. also not to mention, idk if this is coincedence or what, the abilities that require cunning for rogues work better if they are ranged. You still get the critical hit multiplier if you use a bow while stealthed, so you dont have to leave your party and go up close to melee them. If you are close range you wont need stealth as much.

Stength for a rogue? NO!! You want strength to use higher tier armor as a rogue, but there is absolutely no reson for rogue to use any higher than light armor, there should be no reason for your rogue to take damage, and he has riposte and dirty fighting for stunnin enemys that attack him and even can go stealth in a fight with high enough stealth. You only need 20 for Felon's coat and then you can equip some strenght items to use helm of honnleath that need 22 strenght

Steel Majere343 wrote...

i once put a whole bunch of points into dex and constitution and str for a warrior. Just those three spread him out too thin, yes i eventually beat the game but he sucked. and i mean SUCKED.
its not as easy to just make a decent character as you say. by decent warrior i mean a warrior that can take on the hordes the game throws at you and survive. You cant just throw points around for that to happen lol.

anyways i was looking for feedback on my idea above really.

iv tried what you say is so easy, and iv cursed myself 80+hours later to find that i was building him all wrong. i would get to orzammar and my main tank would be getting owned completely. not even the heal spell could save them.

the only way i beat the game at that point was buying hundreds of potions. it was dumb and not very fun. At that point in the game i like when i can look back and look at my party and actually feel like they are solid.

So no, you cant just put points into anything that sounds usefull and call it good, you will end up with the oposite of good characters, trust me, its why im here lol.

You dont need to use any points into Constitution at all the benefit is too small and levelling your toon is enough hp, you just slap all the points in DEX and only DEX, strenght only for armor, you say you got your dex build warrior killed by magic, that means you have equipped them wrong, there is spellresistance items like Ring of ages and knightcommander's plate in this game for a reason and mages should be your primary targets anyway, manaclash and glyph of neutralization usually shutdown any mage.

As a side note do not buy potions, making your own potions with Herbalism skill is cheaper.

Anyone else find just building your party very challenging? (especially since you cant just go back and change them, if you dont build them right you will be screwed later in the game unless you have some spells and potions to constantly save your tank).

Not at all, i find building very easy.

Modifié par Naxarrath, 16 décembre 2009 - 11:05 .

[Steel Majere343]

well for up close rogues they wont do very much damage if you dont focus on strength lol, nor will they be able to wield the best swords. its kind of stupid to not focus on strength with a melee rogue imho.



i mean ya you can get lethality to replace their strength but they will still be using weak weapons and a rogues primary purpose is to cause damage.

[12monkeys]

sadly, no matter how good you build your party, one cast by an enemy mage of chain lightning and it's bye-bye. not so much in the beginning of the game, but when my party got to above lvl 8, every mage we encounter has a knack for throwing chain lightning. and you can only watch as your every member of your party is paralyzed and their health dwindling and dwindling and dwindling...

so it boils down to a matter of who can cast chain lightning first...you or the enemy mage. or who can take out the other first.

[Lordwolf89]

i usualy putt my warriors regardles sof Tank or Damager i nStrength and Dexterity, of course Tanke get more points in Dexterity and Damager get a few points in Willpower once he gts stamina issues and can't use special abilities quite as often



as for Rouges Dex and Cunning, Strength up to 20 for best light armor mages, i tend to keep willpower lower than magic as with strong spells usualy brings a mob on low healths so my archer, tank, damager can take care of them pretty easily, if not ther eis always an assload of Lyrium potion around

[I ReVaNChisT I]

12monkeys wrote...

sadly, no matter how good you build your party, one cast by an enemy mage of chain lightning and it's bye-bye. not so much in the beginning of the game, but when my party got to above lvl 8, every mage we encounter has a knack for throwing chain lightning. and you can only watch as your every member of your party is paralyzed and their health dwindling and dwindling and dwindling...

so it boils down to a matter of who can cast chain lightning first...you or the enemy mage. or who can take out the other first.

 or you can simply end the mage with mana clash , i tried chan lightning with morrigan but the stupidest thing kept happening, halfway through casting it she would just inexplicably move which interupted the casting, no matter what i tried she kept doing it so gave up , but yeah chain lighting/scattershot combo on my party is my least favourite enemy attack

[Naxarrath]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well for up close rogues they wont do very much damage if you dont focus on strength lol, nor will they be able to wield the best swords. its kind of stupid to not focus on strength with a melee rogue imho.

Thats why you attack from behind or stunned enemy with coup de grace to get your hits as backstabs and not normal attacks.

i mean ya you can get lethality to replace their strength but they will still be using weak weapons and a rogues primary purpose is to cause damage.

There is daggers like Roses thorn in the game they increase backstab damage, and dagger damage come from Dex/strenght but if you have lethality and cunning score is higher than strenght it is Dex/Cun.

Modifié par Naxarrath, 16 décembre 2009 - 11:48 .

[Lughsan35]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well for up close rogues they wont do very much damage if you dont focus on strength lol, nor will they be able to wield the best swords. its kind of stupid to not focus on strength with a melee rogue imho.

i mean ya you can get lethality to replace their strength but they will still be using weak weapons and a rogues primary purpose is to cause damage.

Yes the 4 times I hit for 50 damage in the time it takes one swing of a 2hander to hit for the same is clearly weak...

[Steel Majere343]

Lordwolf89 wrote...

i usualy putt my warriors regardles sof Tank or Damager i nStrength and Dexterity, of course Tanke get more points in Dexterity and Damager get a few points in Willpower once he gts stamina issues and can't use special abilities quite as often

as for Rouges Dex and Cunning, Strength up to 20 for best light armor mages, i tend to keep willpower lower than magic as with strong spells usualy brings a mob on low healths so my archer, tank, damager can take care of them pretty easily, if not ther eis always an assload of Lyrium potion around

what iv been finding is that you dont need dextarity at all for backup tanks or damage oriented tanks.
i know dextarity also represents your ability to hit targets but so does strength. Strength also increases your attack score. So your damagers can hit enough and use skills far more often, which is where the real damage is after all. the skills.

so far its working out really well im surprised to say. My main tank doesnt have much stamina but its not necessary, hes there to an obstical basically, constantly landing normal hits and dodging theirs, my damager tank is sten, he is constantly using skills all the time. he's what kills 90% of the enemies (his percentage of party damage is 45%! which is a lot considering there are 3 other people in the group.

then iv got my ranged focused rogue, who just got lethality and does more damage then a normal hit from sten with her arrows. (so somewhere around 80, sten does about 60)

then iv got morrigan, who has one heal spell and that works fine (in the past iv almost always had to have a full fledged spirit healer or make a ton of potions).

so ya. so far, all is good. we'll see if it keeps up.

[Haplose]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well for up close rogues they wont do very much damage if you dont focus on strength lol, nor will they be able to wield the best swords. its kind of stupid to not focus on strength with a melee rogue imho.

i mean ya you can get lethality to replace their strength but they will still be using weak weapons and a rogues primary purpose is to cause damage.

OMG, talk about clueless....

This statement is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

[Steel Majere343]

Haplose wrote...

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well for up close rogues they wont do very much damage if you dont focus on strength lol, nor will they be able to wield the best swords. its kind of stupid to not focus on strength with a melee rogue imho.

i mean ya you can get lethality to replace their strength but they will still be using weak weapons and a rogues primary purpose is to cause damage.

OMG, talk about clueless....

This statement is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

i fail to see how thats clueless or wrong..lol.

its the truth, if you dont have a high strength you cant wield the upper tier swords. you myswell focus on it all the way then switching to cunning when you meet their requirements. cunning can just replace strength its not like it gets a bonus or something.

lethality doesnt meet strength requirements if thats what your trying to say. it only counts for the damage not the requirements themselves.

so.. care to explain?

[Naxarrath]

Steel Majere343 wrote...
i fail to see how thats clueless or wrong..lol.

its the truth, if you dont have a high strength you cant wield the upper tier swords. you myswell focus on it all the way then switching to cunning when you meet their requirements. cunning can just replace strength its not like it gets a bonus or something.

lethality doesnt meet strength requirements if thats what your trying to say. it only counts for the damage not the requirements themselves.

so.. care to explain?

He means you are wasting stats for strength, sure you can use longsword with high strength but when you take lethality talent your cunning does nothing for you exept opening locks and talking if your strength is higher, and when your cunning score finally reaches strength the STR does not add any points in damage, only dex and cunning add any damage then.

STR is there just to wield weapon at that point, you dont need to use longsword to get high dps.

Take a look at this and and you see how powerful daggers are that you dont like to use, rogue can be really dedly without any longswords, i consider those weapons to be only for warriors.

Not my video, but shows what i mean.

Modifié par Naxarrath, 16 décembre 2009 - 12:46 .

[Tysabri]

My first runthru was with myself tanking as a warrior with enough str and dex to equip what I needed and the rest in con. It wasn't too bad but I prefer AW or templar tanks (using an AW tank on my second runthru). I switched to Alistair tanking and respecced my war to DW DPS and they own.



If you're not using the respec tool I'd use alistair to tank, wynne as healer, and have morrigan pick up mana clash and whatever else you want.



For your rogue, like it was said above, 20 str for armor, 36 dex if you want DW mastery, and the rest in cun. Cunning is your stat for dagger/archery damage. Do not use swords/maces/anything else. Daggers or bows for rogues, or roll a warrior. Be sure to get lethality (this is what makes your cunning contribute to your damage, which is why you don't need str), and probably 2 points in device mastery.



I used the respec mod and my party consisted of me(dps war), alistair (templar/champion tank), zevran(assassin/bard - DW with lethality and max cunning), and morrigan (spirit healer with mana clash and tempest/blizzard).



For my mages I usually go 35-40 WP than the rest in magic. Always get mana clash to 1 shot mages, heal, then basically whatever you want.



My second party: Me(blood mage/arcane war tank), Morrigan (blood mage/spirit healer), Zevran (same as above only switched bard to ranger for the BM's), and my next DPS is probably gonna be sten

[Gecon]

Well, I play with 2 mages and I dont consider the game a cakewalk, despite what other people say.

For example, in Redcliffe castle, the encounters where that tough that at one point I could only surive with both mages throwing the tank a heal whenever they can, and Wynne also throwing a Regeneration when its up, and my tank quaffing healing potions. Ok I still didnt needed the bigger ones of the healing pots, but that was really at the limit I could heal at all. I fear I probably lack too much on the CC side of spells.

My main only has Mind Blast as a mass CC, and Wynne has earthquake - which, as it turns out, isnt really such a great spell for CC for various reasons - very large and unpractical area (bad in close corners), very frequent resistst - and the glyphs, which are a tad hard to aim and really need 2 spells to paralyze satisfactory (and again very large area, bad for small areas, and this time not even any marker where they should go).

Yes I have cold spells, but they are on Morrigan ...

Modifié par Gecon, 16 décembre 2009 - 12:48 .

[Gecon]

brelrande wrote...

I found curtain character builds to be very challenging.
tanking for me was the easiest, next in line a DW rogue/ambusher
the hardest for me was the mage, it took me about 3 tries to get a decent build for my mage. My PC mage has mostly CC spells with back up heals and support spells, and it is awesome, im also playing on hard which adds a bit of a challenge.

What spells are you using ? Aside from Heal/Regeneration, obviously.

I wanted to play a Cleric type mage first, but after a lot of rerolling I ended up playing a dps mage instead first. Still would love to know how to make a good healer build.

[Castila]

I find picking the party pretty easy... Tank + melee DPS + Ranged DPS + Wynne!!! easy!