100 réponses à ce sujet

[Moira-chan]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...
[snip]
For Thane to survive you MUST have had; Thane in a romance; Kirrahe alive; LotSB completed (and possibly some paragon/renegade interrupts made during the fight scene.).
 

Okay, now this I could go along with. A handful of new dialogues and some feeling of player agency in the fight scene (it's an awesome fight, but Shepard's too passive, a few cuts over to him/her to see that Shepard's trying to line up a shot on Kai Leng but he won't stand still and Shepard doesn't want to hit Thane could only improve it), and a genuine reflection of choices made in game. I like it. I'd also recommend that part of the dialogue be about his son, how, though it's not perfect, they are forging a strong relationship, maybe even Kolyat insisting that he undergo this treatment, so that they could have time together, to give an explanation for those like me who saw him as accepting his coming death in ME2.

Part of the reason that I don't like the idea of Shepard having a quest to get Thane's cure, really, stems from the fact that it comes across as something that, if open to Shepard regardless of romance, he'd only accept it if he was romanced, which, for those who don't/can't romance him, makes it all seem kind of futile. This way, it's Liara stepping in with her resources and helping Shepard's friend, while also giving him a reason to live again.

thanks thane and all sihas over the world aprove to this ^-^

[Casticus]

Why should Liara waste her valuable time and resources saving the Drell who offer no benefit to the rest of the galaxy while more important races who actually play a part in opposing the Reapers are suffering?

[Steel Dancer]

Casticus wrote...

Why should Liara waste her valuable time and resources saving the Drell who offer no benefit to the rest of the galaxy while more important races who actually play a part in opposing the Reapers are suffering?

To help Shepard. Her friend. Someone she cares about. The person who saved her life, and (quite likely) got her that access to those "valuable time and resources" you just mentioned.

You know what those kind of people are, right?

[Casticus]

Steel Dancer wrote...

Casticus wrote...

Why should Liara waste her valuable time and resources saving the Drell who offer no benefit to the rest of the galaxy while more important races who actually play a part in opposing the Reapers are suffering?

To help Shepard. Her friend. Someone she cares about. The person who saved her life, and (quite likely) got her that access to those "valuable time and resources" you just mentioned.

You know what those kind of people are, right?

Yes. Let's waste resources saving a friend, while the galaxy burns around you. This is a fight for the survival of all life, and you're worried about a friend? Don't be ridiculous.

[Steel Dancer]

Casticus wrote...

Yes. Let's waste resources saving a friend, while the galaxy burns around you. This is a fight for the survival of all life, and you're worried about a friend? Don't be ridiculous.

You... are either someone who never plays paragon or you're taking that avatar pic a little too seriously.

The set up for this would - obviously, if you'd read it in full - be during the down time of the six months between the end of ME2 (whatever the last mission you did was) and the start of ME3. Liara has access to all the files that can be seen in the LotSB DLC and, bluntly, why wouldn't she do her best to help Shepard?

You don't win wars just with guns and ships. Morale is all-important, and the sudden loss of someone close can be the final straw that breaks the camels back. If Shepard really does care about somone she can help with, she'd do it. That's just Liara.

and also why I put the following caveat in:

"For Thane to survive you MUST have had; Thane in a romance; Kirrahe alive; LotSB completed (and possibly some paragon/renegade interrupts made during the fight scene.)."

[RShara]

Don't feed the troll.

[Wulfram]

Thane's survival depending on DLC purchase would not be OK.  Particularly not a DLC that has little to do with him.

Modifié par Wulfram, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[RShara]

I think that the LotSB should *affect* Thane's outcome, because you get information about him from the dossier. But his survival shouldn't hinge on just any one item.

Some trigger points to think about:
Loyal/unloyal
Romanced/unromanced
LotSB played/not played
Thane spoken to/not spoken to before coup
etc

PS:  Paragon Shepard has repeatedly put individuals above races and friends/allies above "the greater good"

Modifié par RShara, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:33 .

[Casticus]

You people chose to romance Thane when you knew he was dying. It was one of the very first things he said to you, "I'm dying."

And now you can't handle that, so you want a cheap way out.

[Shaleist]

Squeegee83 wrote...

@Shaleist: Thanks for this and thank you for keeping an open mind. *big hugs to you* You will always have a friend in us.

[Shaleist]

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

I never saw a problem with Thane's death scene. You got to remember, it's not what you would do, It's what Thane would do.

Umm... let's go back a bit *I had no idea this thread would arise again*


I think it was Faux something that brought up a good point.  Shepard isn't a damsel in distress... she's also NOT some wallflower to sit around and let Space Ninja dude aim his gunhand at the dalatrass OR Thane.  That part of the scene was messed up in the first seconds it unfolded. There shouldn't have been a Mexican standoff in the first place to be honest.  So YES, what Shepard would do IS important in this game.  The limitations BW put on Shepard in this game are too many.

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

My Opinion - I think they had Kai Leng kill Thane to show the player
that Kai-Leng is more dangerous than we may realize, but it just didn't
hit on the cylinders like they thought it would.

They did. And you give it to much praise. There were no cylinders... there wasn't even a chassis of a villian there. I really thought he was some unnamed Cerberus goon when he showed up.

Modifié par Shaleist, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:56 .

[Shaleist]

Casticus wrote...

You people chose to romance Thane when you knew he was dying. It was one of the very first things he said to you, "I'm dying."

And now you can't handle that, so you want a cheap way out.

Topic is how his death played out fighting Khai Leng. Troll that topic or Get out.

[Casticus]

Shaleist wrote...

Casticus wrote...

You people chose to romance Thane when you knew he was dying. It was one of the very first things he said to you, "I'm dying."

And now you can't handle that, so you want a cheap way out.

Topic is how his death played out fighting Khai Leng. Troll that topic or Get out.

Except several people have turned it into a "Cure Thane" topic.

[Shaleist]

Casticus wrote...

Shaleist wrote...

Casticus wrote...

You people chose to romance Thane when you knew he was dying. It was one of the very first things he said to you, "I'm dying."

And now you can't handle that, so you want a cheap way out.

Topic is how his death played out fighting Khai Leng. Troll that topic or Get out.

Except several people have turned it into a "Cure Thane" topic.

Then don't discuss that with them.

[Casticus]

Shaleist wrote...

Casticus wrote...

Shaleist wrote...

Casticus wrote...

You people chose to romance Thane when you knew he was dying. It was one of the very first things he said to you, "I'm dying."

And now you can't handle that, so you want a cheap way out.

Topic is how his death played out fighting Khai Leng. Troll that topic or Get out.

Except several people have turned it into a "Cure Thane" topic.

Then don't discuss that with them.

Oh. I forgot I take orders from you. How about you stop discussing anything with me and move along?

[Shaleist]

Make your own thread. I'm sure you'll have plenty of folks to talk to.

[Steel Dancer]

Shaleist wrote...

Topic is how his death played out fighting Khai Leng.

Apologies, think I'm one of the main culprits for going OT there

So, (hopefully) back on topic.

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Okay, now this I could go along with. A handful of new dialogues and some feeling of player agency in the fight scene (it's an awesome fight, but Shepard's too passive, a few cuts over to him/her to see that Shepard's trying to line up a shot on Kai Leng but he won't stand still and Shepard doesn't want to hit Thane could only improve it), and a genuine reflection of choices made in game. I like it. I'd also recommend that part of the dialogue be about his son, how, though it's not perfect, they are forging a strong relationship, maybe even Kolyat insisting that he undergo this treatment, so that they could have time together, to give an explanation for those like me who saw him as accepting his coming death in ME2.

I think you just hit one of the main issues with the fight. It's purely and solely a cutscene, where Shepard and thus the player does nothing and has no power. It's a fundamental change and fits badly in the game. Being able to influence it on some level would help.

Say, Shepard moves into the fight and tries to go hand to hand ninja blade to omni-tool, a Heroic Sacrifice to save Shepard from a cloaked KL in that would have more meaning to the player.

[Shaleist]

Steel Dancer wrote...


Say, Shepard moves into the fight and tries to go hand to hand ninja blade to omni-tool, a Heroic Sacrifice to save Shepard from a cloaked KL in that would have more meaning to the player.

THIS is what I had in mind when I started.:happy:

At least a renegade/paragon cut to engage space ninja if you so choose and have it effect the nature of the fight.

Modifié par Shaleist, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .

[RShara]

I really thought that during the cutscene, there'd be a paragon or renegade interrupt to intervene at some point. Maybe it turns out that you still can't *save* Thane, but at least Shepard should act like Shepard, and get in there and get her hands dirty.

[Bluecansam]

Steel Dancer wrote...

*snip*

TL; DR version:
 
For Thane to survive you MUST have had; Thane in a romance; Kirrahe alive; LotSB completed (and possibly some paragon/renegade interrupts made during the fight scene.).
 

I would replay the entire trilogy for something like this. Brilliant.

People seem to make the mistaken assumption that we want some easy fetch quest or MacGuffin or deus ex machina (cuz BioWare NEVER does those! *sarcasm*) to just HAND us a cure for Thane so we can have a happy-go-lucky rainbows and butterflies end to our romance. I, at least, want to WORK for that cure. It should be hard, and be dependent upon several variables from the previous games. I want Shepard to act like Shepard and FIGHT to make difficult things possible. I want her to not give up on her friends when they've given up on themselves. You can be railroaded into letting Thane die in your games. I want to actually, you know, play and make choices that actually does stuff in my game.

[Bluecansam]

Shaleist wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...


Say, Shepard moves into the fight and tries to go hand to hand ninja blade to omni-tool, a Heroic Sacrifice to save Shepard from a cloaked KL in that would have more meaning to the player.

THIS is what I had in mind when I started.:happy:

At least a renegade/paragon cut to engage space ninja if you so choose and have it effect the nature of the fight.

Yes, this. I'd even accept an interrupt where Shepard attempts to help, but fails. Like with Tali's suicide, there's an interrupt so you can try to catch her from falling from the cliff. You fail, but at least Shepard's not standing around watching her friend die.

[Steel Dancer]

Thought about this a bit more (while I was at work, nothing there to keep me from thinking ).
 
Right, if we’re focusing purely on a “Thane dies” fight I’d go along this path:
 
First: Thane not firing.
This is dumb. Better to have KL have a sudden reaction to something he hears (Thane’s troubled breathing or a suppressed cough, perhaps) and start to react with the gun already near him and the bullet *just* missing him. Emphasises Thanes illness and gives KL a boost in the “not being an utterly incompetent idiot “stakes.
 
Second: Get rid of the squaddies.
Shepard sends them away with the Councillor, to protect the Councillor (They’ll return at the end of the fight, with added C-Sec personnel).
 
Third: The fight itself.
Mostly as is, the biotic punch should show Thane stagger for a moment afterwards to demonstrate how taxing an attack like that is on him. Shepard’s firing intermittently at KL (either with the Armali Variable Power Cutscene X Pistol™ or via paragon/renegade interrupts that do… something in the fight) Unable to get in decisive shots due to cloaking and Thane moving in and around KL – Shown in a POV shot.
 
Shepard moves away from the wall to get a better angle of attack on KL. KL cloaks and moves away suddenly, as if breaking from the fight. A visibly winded Thane looks around, hunting for him, to no avail. Shepard closes to Thane; they exchange looks of concern as to KLs location. Thane notices movement behind Shepard and pulls Shepard out of the way at the cost of taking a grievous wound himself. Shepard unloads on KL flying as Thane goes down. The squad, along with the C-Sec reinforcements arrive (optional: Kirrahe appears if alive as well, firing Scorpion rounds into KL as well).

Another option: An LI could go back to back with Thane (who else would be trusted more to do that than his Siha?) after moving closer to the battle. A small thing, but it'd be meaningful.


KL leaves, Shepard and squad pursue as before.

[Eliza]

Good ideas, Steel Dancer! I really like them. Especially showing that Thane's illness influences his performance, is great, and should be obvious.

I had this stupid fight scene today and got stomach pain watching it again, yelling "don't stand around, Shep, do something to help killing this bastard KL!"

There is one thing I would also change if Thane is an LI: Shepard should care much after Thane is hurt by KL. Maybe some little gesture would be enough to show that she really cares: She could simply take his hand, press it for a second, whisper something like "hold on, Thane" or "I'll get this bastard and then he'll get what he deserves!".
Maybe she should stay with him waiting for the ambulance, letting only the squadmates going after KL, or, if this is not possible for some reason, at least she should look back at him before leaving.

[Steel Dancer]

Eliza wrote...

There is one thing I would also change if Thane is an LI: Shepard should care much after Thane is hurt by KL. Maybe some little gesture would be enough to show that she really cares: She could simply take his hand, press it for a second, whisper something like "hold on, Thane" or "I'll get this bastard and then he'll get what he deserves!".
Maybe she should stay with him waiting for the ambulance, letting only the squadmates going after KL, or, if this is not possible for some reason, at least she should look back at him before leaving.

Paragon: "Hold on, Thane!"

Renegade:  "I'll get this bastard and then he'll get what he deserves!".

I like that, It'd better reflect whichever style of Shepard you have. I don't think she'd wait though, difficult as it is, she'd know she has to save the other Councillors.

Although, if done as I mentioned above there'd be C-Sec there so Thane wouldn't be left alone.

Modifié par Steel Dancer, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:57 .

[alphawolf35779]

Thane needed to live, end of story. Why create such an impressive character and let him die of freaking lung cancer, that's an insult, why let him be a statistic instead of a survivor? Maybe something should be done about it and I also completely understand the monitory cost of voice acting (they have made millions because of their fan base, more specifically EA and they could and should fund these "alternate" DLC packages that give the fans what they want, Bioware what they want and ultimately what EA wants, money,that's how EA rolls right, so why stop with ME?) and time spent but they came out with the Extended Cut, have not played it yet BUT I have heard it is not very impressive and that was, I assume, multiple dialog additions to make another disappointing choice, again I understand and respect Bioware in the sense that Mass Effect is their baby and we get to see it grow BUT we are fans and in the eyes of EA, consumers and we should get what we want, not out of ignorance and blind "I want this" mentality though, just what we paid for. Hell, I'll gladly pay for DLC that allows me to play out the version of Mass Effect that I wanted (not to different but still what I consider to be, better).