138 réponses à ce sujet

[bobsmyuncle]

1Parmenides wrote...

in KOTOR it was fun being an evil dark side sith. With this game, it's hard to be evil without being an adolescent hooligan.

This comment is genuinely bemusing. KOTOR evil was all about kicking puppies and shoving granny in front of a bus for laughs. DAO evil is more about what serves you best right now. If you mean the comedy murder knife options, okay, I'll cede you that. It's not what I'd consider a choice in an "evil" playthrough though. Maybe a "Let's RP Johnny the Homicidal Maniac" playthrough.

By comparison, the reward for goodness in this game is about what you get in real life: good feelings and occasionally improved opinions. In KOTOR, refusing a reward just meant "please convert the credits into XP, thanks."

[Suron]

No.

[1Parmenides]

DAO evil is all about being an ingrateful jerk to those who did you a favor... being a jerk to people who you want help from. But yes, DAO evil = "Let's RP Johnny the Homicidal Maniac." That or the adolescent hooligan. Well, evil is also "give me extra coins for that."



I can think of only 2 instances where you actually trade lives (as slaves) for power. The rest is mostly dialogue to be wacko (often moronic) psycho evil.



The true evil mastermind can seem nice at first to people they want to win over to their own evil purposes. In KOTOR (maybe more KOTOR2? ) I get the feeling of being a master manipulator. You can talk nice.... if it serves your purposes. But yes, KOTOR didn't have all points perfect (trading credits for XP)

[Ulicus]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Invalidcode wrote...

Your other party members make fun of him.

Terribly if the dialog I've read is correct.

On topic, I have not put Loghain in any party of mine. However, this makes me like him just a little bit.

Loghain: Here, some smoked boar saved from supper.  Huh, it'll do you good.
Dog: (Excited huffing)
Loghain: I had a mabari once.  Adalla--that was her name.  We found her in the wood shed one night.  She was still a pup then.
Loghain: We never figured out where she came from.  My mother called her a gift from the Maker.  And she was... she really was.
Loghain: She was beautiful; she had a lovely chestnut brown coat, and the most intelligent, understanding eyes.  You would have liked her.
Dog: (He wags his tail.)
Loghain: We grew up together.  She never left my side, not once.  Ten years we had her, before she was taken away...
Dog: (He ****s his head and looks curiously at Loghain.)
Loghain: Another time perhaps.  Finish your snack.

Most of Loghain's banter is awesome, to be honest -- I wish there was more of it.  There's some great stuff with Wynne (seriously, after those I fully believe Loghain's reasons for retreating at Ostagar) and his one with Zevran rocks.

I get the feeling that there was maybe, just maybe, originally meant to be more stuff after the landsmeet. It seems as though "banterwise", Loghain spends more time with the party than marching straight to Redcliffe would indicate.

[Ulyn]

If you go through his entire dialog tree - I had to get high relations for his str bonus - you do get the impression that he was sincere in his belief that he was saving Fereldan from another Orlesian occupation.



For some people just discussing the nature of his soul is ridiculous. Yeah, no kidding he was a bad guy. But if you can for example "get" Tywin Lannister in the GRR Martin books than Logain is comparatively easy to "get." (As opposed to, for example, Cersei Lannister, whose villainy is almost impossible to empathize with on any level because it's more "nasty" and "psychopathic" than "brooding" or "tragic".)



The writers decided to give him a realistic sort of regret -- fitful and half-hearted, like that of those few real war criminals who accept, bit by bit, that they were wrong. I felt sympathy during his Archdemon-killing sequence, and was impressed it was possible.

[Axterix]

Dandler wrote...

Give Loghain the glory and get no endgame snoo snoo? I think not...

Then do it for the opposite reason...so you can tell Loghain that, nope, he's not getting off that easy.

No simple execution.  No glorious death.  If he wants redemption, atonement, whatever, he's going to have to work at it, do the hard way.

[philippe willaume]

To answer the original question:

Anora looks like a much better ruler than old wimpy boy and you give the finger (two if you are English) to earl of Redcliff.



Anora said she would help you against her father and I agreed that if there was no other way he was going to get it but I could avoid killing him I would



If you play a woman you may need someone to shag morrigan, I just could not contemplate the conversation with the boy wonder.



phil

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I'm planning on sparing him through one playthrough for the sake of getting the necessary achievements assosciated with such an action. But I'm gonna have to get good and drunk first, and will probably need to bathe afterwards to get the feeling of being an utter slimebag for doing so. But I will for the sake of completion.



I'm sure Loghain had the best of intentions when he was torturing people, hiring renegade blood mages to poison elderly nobles, selling helpless elves into a fate worse than death, and leaving thousands of his countrymen to get slaughtered at the hands of the darkspawn. However, I still cringe at the idea of sparing him, regardless.



Though he's not all that bad. I mean, he did send me a wonderful gift named Zevran, who has been introducing me to new friends in brothels and assassinating things in my tent at night, so I think I shall spare him next time around as a form of thanks.

[SarEnyaDor]

Suron wrote...

No.

This.

Oh wait -> for the achievement, seriously that is the only valid reason in my book.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 16 décembre 2009 - 02:11 .

[sleepy__head]

He has good taste in second-in-command.

[Spazmodian]

Loghain is very simple.

He is a dog.  Dog's require there to be a strong alpha male in the pack.  If a strong alpha male is not present a dog will make itself the alpha male and act accordingly.  Loghain saw only weakness around him and he took action when the opportunity presented itself for him to correct the situation.

He yields almost instantly when presented with a more dominant figure(the player at Landsmeet).


Any one who has ever actually owned a dog should be able to see the traits plain as day.  If you haven't owned a dog(or rather had a dog who owned you) then I suggest watching any dog show such as the Dog Whisperer.  Lots of situations with weak owners allowing their dogs to become the alpha of the pack and then being disturbed when they don't understand their lack of control.

[kevinwastaken]

sleepy__head wrote...

He has good taste in second-in-command.

Howe? Or are you saying he tastes good? eww..

[Nashimura]

* Zevran: So, err...is it Lord Loghain?

* Loghain: I am no longer a teyrn, nor even a knight. Address me without a title, as you would any other Grey Warden.

* Zevran: So just Loghain, then.

* Loghain: Correct. What's on your mind?

* Zevran: You know who I am, yes? I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Grey Wardens.

* Loghain: I thought you looked familiar.

* Zevran: Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain.

* Loghain: You don't say.

* Zevran: I'm terribly broken up over it.

* Loghain: Hmm. Well thank you kindly for informing me.







I love that bit.

[ReubenLiew]

kevinwastaken wrote...

sleepy__head wrote...

He has good taste in second-in-command.

Howe? Or are you saying he tastes good? eww..

*slaps upside the head* Cauthrien, man, Cauthrien!

[Dunhart]

I still haven't had the guts to recruit Loghain. I love Simon Templeman's voice and I really want him in my party since he invariably plays the villain roles and a chance to have him on my side as party member is just too awesome to pass. I just can't bring myself to do it because it means screwing up Alistair () so badly.



Curse you, Bioware, for providing me what I want with such a high price tag!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Spazmodian wrote...

Loghain is very simple.

He is a dog.  Dog's require there to be a strong alpha male in the pack.  If a strong alpha male is not present a dog will make itself the alpha male and act accordingly.  Loghain saw only weakness around him and he took action when the opportunity presented itself for him to correct the situation.

He yields almost instantly when presented with a more dominant figure(the player at Landsmeet).


Any one who has ever actually owned a dog should be able to see the traits plain as day.  If you haven't owned a dog(or rather had a dog who owned you) then I suggest watching any dog show such as the Dog Whisperer.  Lots of situations with weak owners allowing their dogs to become the alpha of the pack and then being disturbed when they don't understand their lack of control.

That's what all humans, as pack animals, are like.

[druidofwarp]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

By comparison, the reward for goodness in this game is about what you get in real life: good feelings and occasionally improved opinions. In KOTOR, refusing a reward just meant "please convert the credits into XP, thanks."

Hahaha I was genuinely suprised I often got no reward when i refused a reward to be nice (sounds absurd when you say it like that). I was actually very happy with it though because it forced me to rethink the way i would respond to people in-game especially when money was tight. I love not having a silly morality bar.

Now if only we could get rid of that approval bar and have a more realistic interaction and conversation with our companions, I wonder why Bioware but this in after taking the morality bar out.

[Spazmodian]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


That's what all humans, as pack animals, are like.

No, the vast majority of humans are like herd animals not pack animals.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Spazmodian wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


That's what all humans, as pack animals, are like.

No, the vast majority of humans are like herd animals not pack animals.

Well true, in today's civilised world at least. The primitive human way of life seems more akin to pack animals.

Oh well, being a dog is better than being a sheep.

[druidofwarp]

as long as im a mabari

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I'd rather be a cat. Think for myself, choose who serserves my loyalty and who doesn't, and actually have something to do other than laying at a master's feet.



I wouldn't say dogs are much better than sheep. They are merely broken animals manipulated through generations of selective breeding to serve various purposes. Not really much better than livestock bred similarly.



I certainly do not trust anyone's loyalty who has given it because I beat them into submission.

[Vicious]

The most touching moment in the game was when I refused Morrigan's ritual, and didn't take Loghain with me in the final battle. He was pretty pissed, saying"Wasn't it the whole point for me to be the one to take the final blow?" and I replied: "No, you need to stay here. And live," Loghain obviously stunned replied, "I...understand."

That was the one moment in the game where I felt as though my MC had made a completely selfless decision. He had become a true hero.

In the epilogue Loghain lived well. I was quite proud of how it all turned out. epic!


I was sad Alistair left but I honestly believe he would have come around... sadly he had no way of knowing that the final battle would be in Denerim and so never got his chance. A damn shame, i'm sure if he knew he would have gotten over his feelings and fought by my side.

Modifié par Vicious, 16 décembre 2009 - 03:23 .

[Adria Teksuni]

Haven't been able to bring myself to actually let the blighter live, yet.  He always becomes Archdemon Beggin' Strips when I don't kill him at the Landsmeet.

Modifié par Adria Teksuni, 16 décembre 2009 - 03:15 .

[tanglefoot79]

I'll probably let him live this play through.



I never though I would regret killing him until he told Anora, "Daughter's never grow up, they remain six years old with pig-tails and skinned knees forever."



Before my own daughter was born, I wouldn't have cared. Now however, that little moment of clarity of his hits home. He'll get to die heroically at least once.

[ReubenLiew]

How does one die heroically twice?