287 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Goose]

And it would appear that the control beam CAN differentiate between Reapers and Geth with Reaper code.

And Synehesis cannot differentiate at all, because it targets all life, synthetic and organic.

They're different options to begin with.

[babymoon]

I don't really understand why people care so deeply for the geth either.

Legion and EDI are awesome and I love them, but when it comes down to it...I can't believe people would rather choose having the reapers still around and potentially killing billions more in the future than sacrifice one "race" of robots.

[NinePointer]

I care, but I'm a selfish guy. Even the SLIGHTEST chance of having my Shepard prevail and live I would have sacrificed a LOT more than just the Geth and EDI.

Modifié par NinePointer, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:26 .

[daaaav]

Lord Goose wrote...

And it would appear that the control beam CAN differentiate between Reapers and Geth with Reaper code.

And Synehesis cannot differentiate at all, because it targets all life, synthetic and organic.

They're different options to begin with.

Almost... They are three arbitrary plot devices contrived by the writers to create a thought experiment.

[MerchantGOL]

babymoon wrote...

I don't really understand why people care so deeply for the geth either.

Legion and EDI are awesome and I love them, but when it comes down to it...I can't believe people would rather choose having the reapers still around and potentially killing billions more in the future than sacrifice one "race" of robots.

because those robots are individuals, and this assueres that we will have to fight robots later, and people trust in their shepard [control] 

[Lord Goose]

Almost... They are three arbitrary plot devices contrived by the writers to create a thought experiment.

Just because their logic is different from yours it doesn't mean that they are wrong.

I can't believe people would rather choose having the reapers still around and potentially killing billions more in the future than sacrifice one "race" of robots.

Catalyst: "I can't believe people would rather choose all organic life being wiped out than sacrifice few advanced species each 50 000 years".

/joke

Modifié par Lord Goose, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:31 .

[elitehunter34]

Lord Goose wrote...

Almost... They are three arbitrary plot devices contrived by the writers to create a thought experiment.

Just because their logic is different from yours it doesn't mean that they are wrong.

But that doesn't mean it isn't silly.

[Lord Goose]

But that doesn't mean it isn't silly.

It would have been silly, if we were given details about how Crucible works. But it always was black box.

[elitehunter34]

Lord Goose wrote...

But that doesn't mean it isn't silly.

It would have been silly, if we were given details about how Crucible works. But it always was black box.

I'm not sure what you mean.  Can you clarify?

[Baldrick67]

Lets see...

Beacause in ME2 we learned that not all geth where the kill bots ME1 painted them as. Legion showed that the geth where just as at risk from being destroyed or worse used like the collectors as the rest of the organics in the galaxy. The geth that attacked Eden prime where a splinter group.
They could have some semblance of individualism and harboured no animosity to organics, The same could be said of EDI as when unshackled she helped take back the normandy and take the fight to the collectors.

ME3 added more to both Legion and the Geth and EDI as they explored their own individualism and what free will meant.

Legions "Does this unit have a soul?" was such a great illumination of his character.

[Jackums]

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

To me the sacrifice of only 1 race in the whole galaxy to defeat the Reapers is a bargain.

I choose Control and sacrifice no-one.

[Mr Cloud]

Don't know if that was stated, but EDI, as well as geth, became what Reapers have always been - synthetic-organic hybrids. That said, the beam in Destroy could be set to destroy such form of life.

Also, synthesis ending is abhorrent. Making AI and all organics equal? Besides it is completely twisted and wicked idea (fertile AI?), it's creating utopia, and those never end well enough.

[ElementL09]

I grown to appreciate and like the Geth through Legion. The Geth only want to do what they were created to do, they want to fight or start wars with anyone else. If it wasn't for the Quarians starting the Morning War on Rannoch then the Geth wouldn't be seen as they were in the Mass Effect Universe.

The Geth were only defending themselves, like how anyother organice would defend themselves. The Quarians gave them Artificial Intelligence so they should have saw this coming, (some did, but the ignorance or others ended up with the whole planet in a civil war of sorts).

I also feel bad for the Geth becuase they are constantly used by the Reapers and attacked by their own creators. They just want to live.

[Soggy-Snake-]

JackumsD wrote...

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

To me the sacrifice of only 1 race in the whole galaxy to defeat the Reapers is a bargain.

I choose Control and sacrifice no-one.

Its not Shepard controlling them remember. Control is a very ambiguous ending. The AI's speech is rather foreboding.

[LTKerr]

daaaav wrote...

I've posted in a few threads about this topic but briefly:

• Geth and Edi have no agency in their fate when contrasted against legion and Mordin
• Sacrifice is contrived and petty. (They are sacrificed in appeasement to the Catalyst, not nobly or selflessly)
• Relationships between organics and synthetics are already largely resolved. It is jarring to have it come up again in the conclusion.
• Was not necessary to have an addittional "downside" to the destroy ending.

This. Also, killing them is like killing another entire species like turians or asaris. Besides, I don't like to sacrifice them just because Bioware couldn't make the other two options better. It's cheap writting.

[Jackums]

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

To me the sacrifice of only 1 race in the whole galaxy to defeat the Reapers is a bargain.

I choose Control and sacrifice no-one.

Its not Shepard controlling them remember. Control is a very ambiguous ending. The AI's speech is rather foreboding.

It's an AI created from Shepard's mind, morals, memories, etc. Therefore, it is Shepard in essence, only not technically. And I only find the Renegade version of Control to be ominous.

Though that's not the topic of this thread, so we probably shouldn't derail it with Control discussion.

[SpamBot2000]

Short answer to the title question: because we played an RPG by the rules BioWare themselves set up. Notice how difficult it is for your avatar to not like EDI, even if this ought to be an option in a well-made RPG. So you you accept that he does, and certainly there are plenty of in-fiction reasons for him to care for the Geth too. If you care about them, you played along with BioWare, which is presumably precisely the point of playing ME at all.

Taking the integrity of the story they created as a hostage at the end might be defensible in some ways, but if people feel purposefully manipulated by these tactics, who can say they are mistaken?

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:54 .

[Vortex13]

LTKerr wrote...

daaaav wrote...

I've posted in a few threads about this topic but briefly:

• Geth and Edi have no agency in their fate when contrasted against legion and Mordin
• Sacrifice is contrived and petty. (They are sacrificed in appeasement to the Catalyst, not nobly or selflessly)
  
• Relationships between organics and synthetics are already largely resolved. It is jarring to have it come up again in the conclusion.
  
• Was not necessary to have an addittional "downside" to the destroy ending.

This. Also, killing them is like killing another entire species like turians or asaris. Besides, I don't like to sacrifice them just because Bioware couldn't make the other two options better. It's cheap writting.

True

[Walsh1980]

There had to be a downside to the Destroy ending. If the Geth and EDI live and the Galaxy isn't left in shambles, there would be no point in even having the other endings. Whether you agree with it or not, the writers drove home the fact that the Geth are a race of people. The choice is 1 (wo)man or an entire race. If Shepard is truly a paragon, destroy isn't an option, the Geth deserve to live. A renegade Shep however would be willing to sacrifice, or really murder them.

If you go through the game doing things like saving the Rachni why would that Shepard all of a sudden be willing to kill every Geth in the galaxy? For some kind of revenge and damn the consequences? Not that the other endings don't have their own downsides, but I don't see a paragon playthrough ending with an entire race murdered.

Modifié par Walsh1980, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:17 .

[Vortex13]

Walsh1980 wrote...

There had to be a downside to the Destroy ending. If the Geth and EDI live and the Galaxy isn't left in shambles, there would be no point in even having the other endings. Whether you agree with it or not, the writers drove home the fact that the Geth are a race of people. The choice is 1 (wo)man or an entire race. If Shepard is truly a paragon, destroy isn't an option, the Geth deserve to live. A renegade Shep however would be willing to sacrifice, or really murder them.

If you go through the game doing things like saving the Rachni why would that Shepard all of a sudden be willing to kill every Geth in the galaxy? For some kind of revenge and damn the consequences? Not that the other endings don't have their own downsides, but I don't see a paragon playthrough ending with an entire race murdered.

My paragon Shepard would pick Destroy as that is the only way the Reapers are removed entirely from the equation. And no I don't see why it has to include genociding EDI and the Geth as it is already commiting genocide on all of the previous races living as goop inside each Reaper.

[TudorWolf]

They're compelling characters, why wouldn't people care?

And as for the fact that destroy kills them, it's perfectly logical. Even assuming that the crucible isn't targeting technology/synthetics in general and focusing specifically on reaper code, at that point everyone should know that EDI is based on the remains of Sovereign (so she's at least at least partially based on reaper tech/code) and the Geth, if they're around at the point this choice is made, were given reaper code by Legion. Naturally, the crucible is going to target them because of that. If it didn't then there's the very damning inference that maybe it didn't really affect the reapers all that much either.

That choice has a logical consequence, I really don't know why people have to angst over it so much. You could argue that everyone having reaper code is contrived and I'd agree, but everybody just runs with "it was tacked on as deterrent and has no logical basis" which I don't fully agree with

[BulletFMV2413]

if i can end the war with a little friendly fire on robots id do it in a heartbeat......we can just build new better robots

[dbt-kenny]

if you have to ask you never understand.
in a word. they are my friends

[The Interloper]

It's not that they die. Sacrificing a race to save shepard is a genuine delimma. it's why they die.

All three endings accept the Catalyst's claim that no synthetic is to be trusted to act responsibly when let free, that the political and emotional subplot that climaxes with Legion's sacrifice was for naught, and that the only way to resolve the problem is with space lasers. So either you exterminate them, mind control them, or rewrite the genetic structure of everyone just to pacify them.

Modifié par The Interloper, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:34 .

[Vortex13]

The Interloper wrote...

It's not that they die. Sacrificing a race to save shepard is a genuine delimma. it's why they die.

All three endings accept the Catalyst's claim that no synthetic is to be trusted to act responsibly when let free, that the political and emotional subplot that climaxes with Legion's sacrifice was for naught, and that the only way to resolve the problem is with space lasers. So either you exterminate them, mind control them, or rewrite the genetic structure of everyone just to pacify them.

Because nobody can trust those people/robots.