287 réponses à ce sujet

[Krunjar]

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

This topic boils down to why do people have a different opinion than me?

I mean really OP engage brain please.

Follow your own advice and maybe read the OP. Then perhaps read the ensuing discussion. Might prevent you from posting embarassing posts like you just did.

I did from the beggining now whose the one making assumptions. Mereley calling my post embarassing as if to infer there is something wrong with it isn't enough to deter anyone with a brain I am afraid. What you are asking is why people care about EDI and the geth? The answer is BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THEM. Because their opinions/likes/dislikes/morality make them value and/or sympathise with them more than you. It's a simple enough concept .. people are different. Just accept that and move on. It's a silly question. Just because a bunch of mass effect fanboys who can't resist another chance to argue their opinion jumped on youre bandwagon dousn't stop it from being a silly question either.

Modifié par Krunjar, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:43 .

[Naugi]

daaaav wrote...

Naugi wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I would like to post this from another topic, this user nicely sums up why people don't care for Destroy holding EDI and the Geth hostage.

He does? Seriously? Personally I've never read anything so silly. The Geth and EDI are sacrificed in a horrific ritual to appease the Catalyst? WTFuuuuuuuu ...

And?

Oh nothing, apart from the fact that you totally made the whole ritual part up ...

[Warlock Adam]

Because they're great, interesting characters.

And my Paragon Shepard would rather martyr himself for the innocent than dishonor his friend Legion's sacrifice and leave Joker without his LI.

Just the way the chips fall.

[elitehunter34]

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

I've said this before in other threads and I'm going to say it again here

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differencesbetween different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to you?

[Naugi]

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

This.

People dont want it to make sense when they dont like it, it seems. It's the same as an EMP device, it doesnt distinguish which electronics it destroys.

Think of the end of the Matrix Revolutions when they use the last ship EMP to stop the Sentinels that are attacking Zion, but at the cost of wiping out their own remaining defences.

[MerchantGOL]

elitehunter34 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

I've said this before in other threads and I'm going to say it again here

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differencesbetween different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to you?

its not changing Phiscal apperance.

Destroyign some thing and synthaisis are  2 very diffrent effects brought about by 2 verry diffrent means, Futher more  the diffrences between an orgnaic code, and a a beam designed only to Destory some thing of that type are diffrent and shouldnt be treated as the same thing


They 2 waves target entirely diffrent things.


further more, it appears apperant that the destory wave is caused by  a forced malfunction, while control and synthasis are the intended uses

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:54 .

[Naugi]

elitehunter34 wrote...

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to you?

But logically, how would anyone know that the Crucible had to be built in such a way that its Destroy option would distinguish between synthetics Commander Shepard likes, and synthetics Commander Shepard doesnt like? How does that make more sense? It performs a single function, it wasnt designed to distinguish between races based on one human beings emotional attachments. You seriously think it would make more sense if it could do that?

[Naugi]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Destroyign some thing and synthaisis are  2 very diffrent effects brought about by 2 verry diffrent means, Futher more  the diffrences between an orgnaic code, and a a beam designed only to Destory some thing of that type are diffrent and shouldnt be treated as the same thing

They 2 waves target entirely diffrent things.

Exactly this.

Modifié par Naugi, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:55 .

[SneakyDuc]

You don't have to kill them so why kill them. The exact reason you are given so much reason to accept robots as living beings.

[Naugi]

SneakyDuc wrote...

You don't have to kill them so why kill them. The exact reason you are given so much reason to accept robots as living beings.

But if you feel like that youre surely supposed to pick Synthesis?

[Soggy-Snake-]

Krunjar wrote...

I did from the beggining now whose the one making assumptions. Mereley calling my post embarassing as if to infer there is something wrong with it isn't enough to deter anyone with a brain I am afraid. What you are asking is why people care about EDI and the geth? The answer is BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THEM. Because their opinions/likes/dislikes/morality make them value and/or sympathise with them more than you. It's a simple enough concept .. people are different. Just accept that and move on. It's a silly question. Just because a bunch of mass effect fanboys who can't resist another chance to argue their opinion jumped on youre bandwagon dousn't stop it from being a silly question either.

Sorry, I had to wade through of that sea of gibberish to get some sense out of it. But keep insulting me. That's constructive.

You should have realised that I was asking in the context of Destroy. People complain about not having the Geth and EDI live when the Reapers are destroyed.

I was asking why people cared so much about one race in contrast to galactic extinction. It doesn't matter whether it was the Asari, Turians, Krogan, Salarians or Humans that were sacrificed. One race is nothing compared to an entire galaxy. Yes the Catalyst is to blame for having to have anyone sacrificed but Bioware is responsible for that.

Modifié par Soggy-Snake-, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[Kileyan]

Naugi wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

This.

People dont want it to make sense when they dont like it, it seems. It's the same as an EMP device, it doesnt distinguish which electronics it destroys.

Think of the end of the Matrix Revolutions when they use the last ship EMP to stop the Sentinels that are attacking Zion, but at the cost of wiping out their own remaining defences.

No it has nothing to do with what I wish would have happened. It was contrived to make that ending suck as equally as the others.

This is the same machine that was able to do such infinetly fine things as instantly change organics and machines, safely figure out their details and instantly change them into hybrids.

Yet, this same machine able to do that fine work on a DNA level, you say was unable to distinguish between Reapers, Geth or whatever EDI is?

It is the same fugging machine, not some choice between a nuclear bomb and a finely tuned galaxy wide hybrid creating instant new life tool.

Modifié par Kileyan, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[daaaav]

Arguing about the logic of the catalyst and the crucible is like hammering nails through wool.

The catalyst and the crucible have contrivance written all over them. They did not arise organically from the narrative and Bioware even admits this by the star child not having time to explain where the hell they both came from.

[elitehunter34]

MerchantGOL wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

I've said this before in other threads and I'm going to say it again here

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differencesbetween different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to you?

its not changing Phiscal apperance.

Destroyign some thing and synthaisis are  2 very diffrent effects brought about by 2 verry diffrent means, Futher more  the diffrences between an orgnaic code, and a a beam designed only to Destory some thing of that type are diffrent and shouldnt be treated as the same thing


They 2 waves target entirely diffrent things.

Both waves come from the same device.  You can't say that they are different waves and therefore have different technological limitations because they come from the same device.  Synthesis is obviously something that requires much more advanced technology than distinguishing between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers. Why should waves originating from the same device have inconsistant technological limitations?  You are commiting the fallacy of special pleading.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[nitefyre410]

The Geth and EDI are the price that is asked to out right destroy the Reapers... whether you or I think is contrived is moot... that's price... so we either pay up..

or take a different route.

Just like when you go to the store and they something you want but the price is a little high... either pay if you do want to some place else or you go to another store.

[Peregrin25]

Naugi wrote...

The only good Geth was Legion and he dies no matter what you do, there is no Legion doesnt die scenario. That leaves a race of machines that we have been fighting against for 3 games, who sided with the Reapers against the Quarians, who were built not born ... honestly, dont see the problem in wiping them out to save every organic species in the galaxy.

I agree completely. 

As for me, EDI is the only one I cared about enough to have survived Destroy choice, but meh. Can't always have everything our way lol.

[MerchantGOL]

Kileyan wrote...

Naugi wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

This.

People dont want it to make sense when they dont like it, it seems. It's the same as an EMP device, it doesnt distinguish which electronics it destroys.

Think of the end of the Matrix Revolutions when they use the last ship EMP to stop the Sentinels that are attacking Zion, but at the cost of wiping out their own remaining defences.

No it has nothing to do with what I wish would have happened. It was contrived to make that ending suck as equally as the others.

This is the same machine that was able to do such infinetly fine things as instantly change organics and machines, safely figure out their details and instantly change them into hybrids.

Yet, this same machine able to do that fine work on a DNA level, you say was unable to distinguish between Reapers, Geth or whatever EDI is?

It is the same fugging machine, not some choice between a nuclear bomb and a finely tuned galaxy wide hybrid creating instant new life tool.

same machine but a diffrent effect, thats lie sayign a sword and a hammer will do the same type of damage if you swing them in to some ones head, which they wont. one will slice the other will do blunt force damage

futhermore like i said, the destory wave is a Foced malfunction of the crucible if you look at how it comes about but even if it werent, Organics and  synthetics are diffrent and would not be handeld the same way.

[Naugi]

Kileyan wrote...


Yet, this same machine able to do that fine work on a DNA level, you say was unable to distinguish between Reapers, Geth or whatever EDI is?

It is the same fugging machine, not some choice between a nuclear bomb and a finely tuned galaxy wide hybrid creating instant new life tool.

I repeat, do you realistically expect an EMP style device that has one function, to wipe out synthetics, to not wipe out the ones that Commander Shepard likes. How can it know he likes them? It's a device that understands Shepards emotions and has been built to operate based on his heart? And that makes sense??

[elitehunter34]

MerchantGOL wrote...

same machine but a diffrent effect, thats lie sayign a sword and a hammer will do the same type of damage if you swing them in to some ones head, which they wont. one will slice the other will do blunt force damage

futhermore like i said, the destory wave is a Foced malfunction of the crucible if you look at how it comes about but even if it werent, Organics and  synthetics are diffrent and would not be handeld the same way.

Your entire analogy does not make sense because swords and hammers are different machines.  I am not going to get into semantics, if you think that swords and hammers are "the same machine" I am not going to waste any more time arguing with you.  You clearly do not know the implications of what you're saying.

[MerchantGOL]

elitehunter34 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

IT wasn't Contrived, its makes sense that a weapon designed to destroy giant machines across the galaxy would also destroy the ones you liked

I've said this before in other threads and I'm going to say it again here

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differencesbetween different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to you?

its not changing Phiscal apperance.

Destroyign some thing and synthaisis are  2 very diffrent effects brought about by 2 verry diffrent means, Futher more  the diffrences between an orgnaic code, and a a beam designed only to Destory some thing of that type are diffrent and shouldnt be treated as the same thing


They 2 waves target entirely diffrent things.

Both waves come from the same device.  You can't say that they are different waves and therefore have different technological limitations because they come from the same device.  Synthesis is obviously something that requires much more advanced technology than distinguishing between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers. Why should waves originating from the same device have inconsistant technological limitations?  You are commiting the fallacy of special pleading.

Beign form the same device dosent mean any thing, seing as  that device has  diffrnet ablities, three if you ignore the evidence that the destory wave comes about via a forced malfunction.

Furhtermore you are ignoring the huge difrence between organics and synthetics

Plus as 
Naugi  says how would it know not to target the geth.

Modifié par MerchantGOL, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:04 .

[Obadiah]

It is quite strange that the EC did not specifically address the fate of the Geth given the EMS scores in the Destroy option. There is just the statement that the Crucible will target all synthetics, including the synthetic part of Shepard.

It is hard to qualify what "death" is to the Geth or EDI.

Killed Geth and EDI and be restored from backups to hardware platforms. That is what happened to Legion if he is killed in ME2. Their personality may be rest, but it looks like it's only as much as Shepard's was when he was restored from brain-death.

To the point, however, to me Legion was one of the most interesting characters in ME2, and it was someone I was really looking forward to encountering in ME3. Hands down, the Geth/Quarian mission was the most fullfilling part of the ME3.

And the Geth, now that they have gained independence from the need for network intelligence, have freely decided to aid the organics. It seems like a massive betrayal to off them while they are fighting alongside us so that the organics can survive.

Leaders have to make tough decisions.

Modifié par Obadiah, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:05 .

[daaaav]

Naugi wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Naugi wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I would like to post this from another topic, this user nicely sums up why people don't care for Destroy holding EDI and the Geth hostage.

He does? Seriously? Personally I've never read anything so silly. The Geth and EDI are sacrificed in a horrific ritual to appease the Catalyst? WTFuuuuuuuu ...

And?

Oh nothing, apart from the fact that you totally made the whole ritual part up ...

Made it up?

Shepherd sacrifices Edi and the Geth, to the Catalyst, in order to destroy the Reapers, because the Catalyst told him to do so.

How is this different to a primitive man sacrificing a virgin, to his deity, in order to stop the "insert bad event here", because his deity told him to do so?

i'll admit that this isn't Shpeherds fault. It is Bioware's.

[Vortex13]

My beef with Destroy is not how the Crucible functions in one ending vs. another. Its how the plot holds EDI and the Geth hostage for no other reason then for people to pick another ending.

I said it in my wall-o-text post earlier in this thread but I will sum up my feelings on the matter again here.

To people saying that without killing EDI and the Geth Destroy would be the only choice picked, I say look at the underlying themes of each ending. If the message behind each ending is not enough to have diverse playthroughs without holding EDI and the Geth hostage, then the endings fail narrativly speaking.

[Naugi]

elitehunter34 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

same machine but a diffrent effect, thats lie sayign a sword and a hammer will do the same type of damage if you swing them in to some ones head, which they wont. one will slice the other will do blunt force damage

futhermore like i said, the destory wave is a Foced malfunction of the crucible if you look at how it comes about but even if it werent, Organics and  synthetics are diffrent and would not be handeld the same way.

Your entire analogy does not make sense because swords and hammers are different machines.  I am not going to get into semantics, if you think that swords and hammers are "the same machine" I am not going to waste any more time arguing with you.  You clearly do not know the implications of what you're saying.

You clearly take for granted your own liking of the Geth / EDI and expect an ingame device to know this.

The choice comes from the player choosing one of the options. Each option performs a set function. It doesnt matter if the technology exists to make those options vary the functions they carry out, that hasnt been applied to them, they each do one set thing.

An EMP doesnt destroy all electronic devices except for the helicopter you are stting in at the time. If you set one off in a helicopter you are going to go downwards very fast, like it or not.

What the options actually do is not influenced by Shepard. Cannot be influenced by Shepard. There is no logical way for the device to have been built to take into account Shepards emotions.

If they were you would need dozens of choices, not four. There is no way to make Destroy kill the beings that you as a player dont like and save the ones you do. What if you like EDI but not the Geth? What if you like the Geth but not EDI? Do you not see that the Destroy beam would need multiple sub options in order to fit to your personal attachments to in game characters / races?

None of the options change depending on who you like. Their abilities are set. You may as well ask for Synthesis to Synthesise everyone except the Vorcha because you dont like them. Thats what you are asking the Destroy beam to be capable of.

[daaaav]

Cont..

Or that is what it FELT like.

Either Bioware couldn't be bothered putting in as much effort as they did with Legion and Mordin or they CHOSE not to.

Either way it feels petty and contrived.