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Refusal: The Coward's Choice


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#1
N7Gold

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Back in the days when the entire Mass Effect fanbase was in turmoil over the endings of ME3, how they leave so many loose ends untied, plotholes uncovered, and which one of the three endings is the correct one. The Indoctrination Theory, while plausible and intelligent, made the ending schism worse, it theorized that Control and Synthesis are trap endings that indoctrinate Shepard (hence Shepard's eyes becoming steely blue like Illusive Man's), and supported Destroy as the best ending since it's the only ending that hinted Shepard might live through without losing his/her organic body in any way. Still, the theory did not make Control and Synthesis supporters waver, they stood strong, including the Destroy ending supporters like myself.


But with the emergence of the Extended Cut DLC, reliving the Destroy ending again and watching videos of the Extended Control and Synthesis endings, my negative views on the Control and Synthesis endings has grown a bit more positive recently. I still retain my skepticism on those two endings, but I see that while all three endings are vastly different, they change the galaxy in positive ways, regardless of the sacrifice you made to make that ending possible. Which leads me to look down on the Refusal ending. Some ME fans claim that the endings of ME3 violate every moral that the Mass Effect franchise stands for. While that is true, they definitely end the war against the Reapers. Isn't that what we've been fighting for? Being nitpicky about the way to end the war will only end in your loss. That's why the Refusal ending is the coward's way out. In ME2, there are dialogues referencing that there are people who's lives revolve around morals and ethics, they shy away from the choices that seem "evil" to them.


Shepard (from the DLC Project Overlord): "Who gave YOU the right to play God?"

Archer: "People who are too afraid to make difficult decisions themselves. When people pray for a miracle, they're really praying for men like me to make the tough choices."

Admiral Hackett (at the end of the DLC Arrival): "You did what you did for the best of reasons, but, there were more than three hundred thousand Batarians in that system-- all dead."

Shepard (paragon dialogue): "They died to save trillions of lives. If I could have saved them, you bet your ass I would have."


By refusing Control, Synthesis and Destroy, you are praying for an ending where you don't get to sacrifice the diversity of species, Shepard's body and connection to humanity, or the "lives" of the Geth and EDI, and that leads to the downfall of mankind, Turians, Asari, Quarians, Krogans, etc, all because you got cold feet by the pros and cons (mostly cons) of each ending. I'm not saying the refusal ending is the wrong choice, it's just that it's one of the endings representing the different types of people and their preference of outcomes during the Catalyst scene, it's not a "F**k you" from BioWare or anything like that.


Control: A person who is willing to give up everything he/she has instead of sacrificing a friend, familiy member or a stranger

Synthesis: A person who wants a even leveled playing field, where no side wins or loses, both opponents can shake hands and celebrate together

Destroy: A person who is not afraid of the loss of friends to do what needs to be done, even at the expense of his/her own life

Refusal: A person who deeply dislikes the not so ethical choices presented to him/her and would rather back down than choose either one of them, or at least let someone else pick up where you left off.


At the end of the Refusal ending, it is revealed that the next cycle defeated the Reapers, which means, someone in that cycle had the will to do what you were too afraid to do after the Crucible was rebuilt. The point I'm making is, we won't always like the paths to victory in wars, we sometimes have to do something that makes us look "selfish" or "evil", but beggars can't be choosers, otherwise we'll lose the war, and ALL your friends, families, everyone.

Javik: "Do not waver. Victory is never won without difficult choices."

Modifié par N7Gold, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:36 .


#2
MerchantGOL

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it is the cowards choice the refusal to take an outsiders opinion on the chance he may be lying

#3
Ryzaki

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Oh look it's this thread again *yawns*

FYI All endings can be called Cowardly.

0/10 wouldn't read again.

#4
His Name was HYR!!

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N7Gold wrote...

Shepard (from the DLC Project Overlord): "Who gave YOU the right to play God?"

Archer: "People who are too afraid to make difficult decisions themselves. When people pray for a miracle, they're really praying for men like me to make the tough choices."


I'll add a quote of my own.

Krogan Shaman: "(What will happen?) Who knows! You must adapt. You must thrive. No matter the situation."

People who don't understand that are not fit to lead.

#5
GreyLycanTrope

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All endings suck
/thread

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:19 .


#6
thefallen2far

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Why does everyone who supports the endings keep quoting the villains in the game?  TiM, Kai Lang, Saren, Harbinger, Soverign, the council, Ambasador Udina, now Archer.  Anyone want to quote Benezia about how great Synthesis was?

Modifié par thefallen2far, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:23 .


#7
OblivionDawn

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It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.

#8
TookYoCookies

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Greylycantrope wrote...

All endings suck


Still better post than OPs.

Endings suck, Refusal only option for any one who's paid attention through out the series.

#9
Ryzaki

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thefallen2far wrote...

Why does everyone who supports the endings keep quoting the villains in the game?


Who the hell knows.

They all blow chunks. Arguing about which one stinks least is the most entertaining thing we can do apparently.

#10
N7Gold

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OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.

#11
OblivionDawn

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N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.

#12
D24O

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I wonder how many pages this thread will last until it turns into a barrage of personal attacks, and ends up getting locked?

#13
N7Gold

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OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.

Modifié par N7Gold, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .


#14
RDSFirebane

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Guess you also thought batman was a coward for letting harvey dent take the fall huh?

#15
N-Seven

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thefallen2far wrote...

Why does everyone who supports the endings keep quoting the villains in the game?  TiM, Kai Lang, Saren, Harbinger, Soverign, the council, Ambasador Udina, now Archer.  Anyone want to quote Benezia about how great Synthesis was?


I'll quote Shepard about establishing peace, then.

Quarian Admirals:  "Keep On Firing!"
Shepard: "The Geth are about to return to full strength.  If you keep on attacking, they'll wipe you out....the Geth don't want to fight you.  If you can believe that for just one minute, then this war is over."

The Quarians have no reason to trust the Geth.  They never have.  But Shepard implores them to believe in a chance for peace.  I would suggest that Shepard take his own advice and believe in the Catalyst, just for one minute.

#16
wantedman dan

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Ryzaki wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again *yawns*

FYI All endings can be called Cowardly.

0/10 wouldn't read again.


/thread

#17
OblivionDawn

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N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.


You don't back down because you're afraid of the Reapers. You back down because you refuse to win on "their terms".

But yes, you still do fail everyone.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:38 .


#18
Ticonderoga117

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Here's a quote worth looking at.

Andrew Ryan- "A man chooses, a slave obeys."

In refuse, Shepard CHOOSES to fight the Reapers the way the Galaxy was meant too. We unite, we rise up, we fight. We may die, but we will take the Reapers with us.

In all of the others, Shepard obeys the Catalyst by picking one of his stupid choices.

#19
malakim2099

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N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.


Three choices, presented to you by the entity who CONTROLS THE TRUE ANTAGONISTS OF THE GAME!

Yeah, THAT is trustworthy! :happy:

#20
wantedman dan

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This has literally been argued to the point of metaargument.

There is no point in continuing it.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .


#21
N7Gold

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OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.


You don't back down because you're afraid of the Reapers. You back down because you refuse to win on "their terms".

But yes, you still do fail everyone.


What do the Reapers gain from the endings? NOTHING. If you destroy, them, the cycle ends, which is what you've been fighting to do ever since ME1. Control releases the Reapers from the Catalyst's control putting them under YOUR command. With the possibility that Harbinger said "Save us" to Shepard before blasting his/her armor to a crisp near the Conduit, it's possible the organics preserved in the Reapers want to be freed from their personal hell made by the Catalyst's faulty solution. Everybody hates the Catalyst because of his faulty solution about organics and synthetics. Shepard replacing him as the new Catalyst is also a good thing.

Shepard (about Control): "I didn't fight this war to lose everything I have."

Catalyst: "And I do NOT look forward to being replaced by you, but, I would be forced to accept it."

Shepard: "Not unless I choose to do it."


Synthesis, while an abomination to the entire ME series, sets up a winning field for both organics and synthetics.

#22
N7Gold

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malakim2099 wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.


Three choices, presented to you by the entity who CONTROLS THE TRUE ANTAGONISTS OF THE GAME!

Yeah, THAT is trustworthy! :happy:


But the antagonists gain NOTHING from those endings! By refusing, you let them freely harvest your cycle!
Riddle me this: Why did the Catalyst admit not looking forward to being replaced by Shepard if you tell him you have no intention on choosing the Control ending?

Modifié par N7Gold, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .


#23
Mr.House

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A coward would not say that.

#24
wantedman dan

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N7Gold wrote...

Synthesis, while an abomination to the entire ME series, sets up a winning field for both organics and synthetics.


...

/taking you seriously

#25
malakim2099

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N7Gold wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

It's not cowardice.

It takes a substantial amount of balls to build a superweapon/battery deliver it to the Reapers' doorstep, and then decide that you're not going to use it.

Stupid? Very. But not cowardly.


The point in my topic is its cowardice to back down when you're so close to victory, even if you don't exactly approve of your choice of outcomes.


But... they aren't backing down.

They're fighting to the death. There's a difference.


The Alliance and all your other allies are fighting to the death. You, as Shepard, the person everybody is counting on, are standing in front of your three choices to end the bloodshed. If you back down, you fail everyone in the current cycle.


Three choices, presented to you by the entity who CONTROLS THE TRUE ANTAGONISTS OF THE GAME!

Yeah, THAT is trustworthy! :happy:


But the antagonists gain NOTHING from those endings! By refusing, you let them freely harvest your cycle!
Riddle me this: Why did the Catalyst admit not looking forward to being replaced by Shepard if you choose the Control ending?


Don't they? I'd say the only thing they don't gain from is Destroy. Is there a particular reason we suddenly trust the Grand Architect of the Reapers? I don't think it's cowardly for Shepard to tell the Catalyst what to do with itself.