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[1483749283]

Ashley's changed. I am sorry but I cannot be all hand-holdy and understanding about this even though I feel like this is a lovey-dovey forum and I am going to get in trouble for saying this.

Ashley's changed.

I don't mean the looks. In ME1, Ashley was a soldier with a love for art. She was a marine through and through, but glowed with a serene self-confidence and authority that came from having had a strong family with literate roots. I initially thought her off-putting, but by the end of ME1 she'd blown me away with her quiet splendor. It was her over Liara without even a second of hesitation.

I realize it's because her original author left Bioware  but in all honesty: she's just  not the same anymore. She's skin deep. When I started ME3 I could not wait to see what she was up to, how she had changed. But that moment of connection never came. When I saw her rolling on the floor drunk, I think for me something really fell apart there. I had always thought of Tali as the young naive girl, the ME2 fling that I was going to give up once Ashley came back and saw the light. But by ME3 Tali was an admiral with a whole planet depending on her, and there was Ashley drunk and vomiting on the floor.

I kept on waiting for the old Ashley to show up but she never did? And I look inside the Ashley support forum and it's all roses and pictures everywhere.

There, I had to say it, I'm sorry if I offended any feelings and I apologize to the authors. For the most part you did a masterful job.

[iSousek]

You are wrong, its quite the opposite. She remained the same as she was in ME 1. Almost everything that she says or does is a parallel to what she did in ME 1

Poetry - checked
Importance of family - checked
Mentions her religion - checked
Shows you how much of a kick ass soldier she is - checked
Drinking - checked (in ME 1 she invited you for a drink to celebrate armstice day)


If anything, her problem is in not expanding beyond what was established in ME 1.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I feel the same way. I don't begrudge people that liked her in ME3, but to me it felt like a whole different person. Sure, she hit all of the basic footnotes for ME1 Ashley, but her heart and spirit disappeared.

She was far too cold to Shepard considering the kind of person she is and considering all they've been through. And as a FemShep player, it seemed like she had nothing to say to me at all because I wasn't sleeping with her.

I didn't mind her not immediately forgiving Shepard for the Cerberus situation because I assumed it would be a trial for our friendship and we would eventually grow stronger for it. But alas that never happened. Instead, by the end of ME3 she felt more stand-offish with Shepard than she did at the end if ME1. Now I see the Cerberus thing not as an obstacle we can conquer but something that has irrevocably damaged our relationship, and that just makes me sad.

I had imagined we'd get past Horizon and she'd be my Shepard's truest friend, someone who totally got her and what it was to be a female soldier, a Spectre, and one of the few who has been there from the beginning. In the end, to my surprise, the scene with Jack in the club felt more like the friendship I had been waiting for all this time with Ashley.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:56 .

[CptData]

Nah, she changed. Some points that come in my mind:

- Poetry
Ashley doesn't use it in ME3. It's only hinted by her present - and only people who played ME1 know Ashley loves Tennyson.
Poetry was a constant trait of her character in ME1.

- Communicative
Ashley's sitting in her observatory room. She nearly never leaves that room and almost never interacts with anyone, not even Shepard.
Also Ashley is quite on most missions and she gets overridden by other characters.
She never hesitated to speak her mind in ME1.

- Religious
Is not mentioned at any given point.
It was topic of one big dialogue and mentioned several times in others too in ME1.

- Tomboy
Well, Ashley in ME3 does not look like a tomboy soldier girl anymore. In ME1, she was far more tomboyish 'though also very hot. A marine through and through.



Traits that still exist

- Family orientated
Remains, although her family is kinda reduced to Sarah and one dialogue mentioning Ashley's father. There's not much left besides that.

- Distrustful
Ashley was always distrustful towards people (humans and aliens alike) she didn't know.
This trait kinda gets exaggerated by a lot in ME3 and is a defining trait of her character: she doesn't trust Shepard until after Udina's coup - and only if you can convince her.

- Romantic
She still is.

- Closed pervert.
She never was - Ashley was quite open about her sexuality after getting into something more serious with Shepard. "Hellcat on and off the battlefield". She still is in ME3 quite active in that field. Me gusta.



Traits that got twisted:

- Soldier
Somehow she became the team's sniper!soldier in ME3, although she was a grunt in ME1. It's a shame I can't outfit Ashley with a shotgun - her boomstick - anymore.

[BP93]

Not sure what you mean, OP. It's a pretty common opinion in the support thread that Ashley sort of "went south" character wise in ME3. Data touched on most of the aspects in the post above me. I think some people put too much into the drunk scene though to be honest. She's not allowed to have a drink like everyone else? Vega, Joker, Tali, Kaidan, and Cortez all have instances where they're drinking or it's implied that they are, but because Ashley is uhh.."finished" she's thought of differently? She asked you to a drink in ME1 too, you know.

I think what most of us miss is the content that doesn't pertain to the romance. The regular, old Ash. On missions, she is that for the most part (especially when you bring Vega, there's some pretty funny banter between them) but on the ship she never leaves her room aside from going to the wall after the turian bomb mission when she reminisces about Kaidan. There's no casual conversations with her on the ship, when you do get to talk to her, it's romance related.

It's not all roses, believe us.

[CptData]

What still bothers me most is the lack of interaction with other crewmembers on board. Also I dislike the fact parts of her dialogue (in the leaked files) got cut. For instance, Ashley no longer asks awkwardly for permission to move in to Shepard's cabin (one of the Hospital dialogues).
Also the leaked files gave away the idea Ash was talking Zaeed-style about her love-life with Shepard, creating the illusion both shared multiple nights together, not just one.

In fact, approx a third of Ashley's content in the leaked files didn't made it into the Release version.


Also some important points are missing, like a talk about "what did you do the past two years", a real talk after the Coup and some other stuff to. There was also a religious dialogue planned - Ash asks Shepard how it is to die, if there was something. That talk is not included in the game anymore, there's only a tiny rest of it in the Cerberus HQ mission.

It's just that - and that still makes me sad - Ash had a lot of great moments in the leaked files, and all but the romance scenes and the drunken scene got removed, cut or bugged out.

[ToaOrka]

iSousek wrote...

You are wrong, its quite the opposite. She remained the same as she was in ME 1. Almost everything that she says or does is a parallel to what she did in ME 1

Poetry - checked
Importance of family - checked
Mentions her religion - checked
Shows you how much of a kick ass soldier she is - checked
Drinking - checked (in ME 1 she invited you for a drink to celebrate armstice day)


If anything, her problem is in not expanding beyond what was established in ME 1.

You're forgetting xenophobia and jealousy if anyone else touches Shepard!

[Joe1962]

CptData wrote...

It's just that - and that still makes me sad - Ash had a lot of great moments in the leaked files, and all but the romance scenes and the drunken scene got removed, cut or bugged out.

I did not know any of this. I only read a tiny bit of the leaked files.

That just totally sucks. Even in my Ash romance imports, I was very disappointed in how little you can actually talk to her.

I guess we can only hope that future DLC will allow more conversations with her. I read the "Dis" dialog found in the EC and it has some extra LI conversations hinted in it.

[Steel Dancer]

In ME1 she was a character.

In ME3 she's a caricature. There's simply no growth or evolution for her.

Modifié par Steel Dancer, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:30 .

[BadExamp1e]

Steel Dancer wrote...

In ME1 she was a character.

In ME3 she's a caricature. There's simply no growth or evolution for her.

Ah, but you all forget that Ashley isn't allowed to grow, and move past certain things like other characters. People won't let her, just like that plonk above still calling her xenophobic.

[BadExamp1e]

ToaOrka wrote...

iSousek wrote...

You are wrong, its quite the opposite. She remained the same as she was in ME 1. Almost everything that she says or does is a parallel to what she did in ME 1

Poetry - checked
Importance of family - checked
Mentions her religion - checked
Shows you how much of a kick ass soldier she is - checked
Drinking - checked (in ME 1 she invited you for a drink to celebrate armstice day)


If anything, her problem is in not expanding beyond what was established in ME 1.

You're forgetting xenophobia and jealousy if anyone else touches Shepard!

Jealousy just proves that she cares.

I have however, heard that Tali takes the break up well. As soon as you dump her, she's off screwing Garrus the next second.

Ash can't move on three years down the line.

[BadExamp1e]

iSousek wrote...

You are wrong, its quite the opposite. She remained the same as she was in ME 1. Almost everything that she says or does is a parallel to what she did in ME 1

Poetry - checked
Importance of family - checked
Mentions her religion - checked
Shows you how much of a kick ass soldier she is - checked
Drinking - checked (in ME 1 she invited you for a drink to celebrate armstice day)


If anything, her problem is in not expanding beyond what was established in ME 1.

I agree with this. Although, I just felt like some of her fire was gone in ME3. For a brief moment it shows in the hospital, "I'll be back, and first order of business is to shove their metal tentacles right up there…" then she bites her tongue.

When it comes to the ME3 squad mates however, Ashley definitely got the short end of the stick, no doubt. Yeah, but as someone mentioned before, most of her lines didn't make it into the actual game. Ashley was supposed to talk about, life after death, Miranda and Jack, Cerberus ect, but it all got cut in the end.

The lack of interaction with her sucks. She has nothing to say once you get her back. And from what I've been told, everybody else has an opinion on our new prothean bro, except her. Oh, yeah. And they also move around the ship as well. Proves Bioware couldn't be assed when it came to her. They forgot about her.

[M. Hanky]

you know, I actually completely disagree with you on this one. Ashley, for a long time, was my ONLY LI that I ever picked. But I don't think she actually changed that much. My only annoyance (and I'm slowly begining to get over it) is that she is so slow to trust shepard.

[Druzgot]

I am old Ashley supporter but i dont think that she change a lot in ME3. She just suffered from lack of dialogue with other squadmates and deep dialogue with shepard.

I also agree that there should be evolution of her character.... There should be for example conversation about her long hair+high heel boots, and why did she do that:D

Modifié par Druzgot, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:23 .

[Druzgot]

CptData wrote...

What still bothers me most is the lack of interaction with other crewmembers on board. Also I dislike the fact parts of her dialogue (in the leaked files) got cut. For instance, Ashley no longer asks awkwardly for permission to move in to Shepard's cabin (one of the Hospital dialogues).
Also the leaked files gave away the idea Ash was talking Zaeed-style about her love-life with Shepard, creating the illusion both shared multiple nights together, not just one.

In fact, approx a third of Ashley's content in the leaked files didn't made it into the Release version.


Also some important points are missing, like a talk about "what did you do the past two years", a real talk after the Coup and some other stuff to. There was also a religious dialogue planned - Ash asks Shepard how it is to die, if there was something. That talk is not included in the game anymore, there's only a tiny rest of it in the Cerberus HQ mission.

It's just that - and that still makes me sad - Ash had a lot of great moments in the leaked files, and all but the romance scenes and the drunken scene got removed, cut or bugged out.

Data, in EC if you took her on the cronos station there is a very(very) short version of conversation about afterlife(or maybe it was before:d?) , she ask Shepard does he remember anything when he was in coma, and he replied that nope:)

[iSousek]

Druzgot wrote...

CptData wrote...

What still bothers me most is the lack of interaction with other crewmembers on board. Also I dislike the fact parts of her dialogue (in the leaked files) got cut. For instance, Ashley no longer asks awkwardly for permission to move in to Shepard's cabin (one of the Hospital dialogues).
Also the leaked files gave away the idea Ash was talking Zaeed-style about her love-life with Shepard, creating the illusion both shared multiple nights together, not just one.

In fact, approx a third of Ashley's content in the leaked files didn't made it into the Release version.


Also some important points are missing, like a talk about "what did you do the past two years", a real talk after the Coup and some other stuff to. There was also a religious dialogue planned - Ash asks Shepard how it is to die, if there was something. That talk is not included in the game anymore, there's only a tiny rest of it in the Cerberus HQ mission.

It's just that - and that still makes me sad - Ash had a lot of great moments in the leaked files, and all but the romance scenes and the drunken scene got removed, cut or bugged out.

Data, in EC if you took her on the cronos station there is a very(very) short version of conversation about afterlife(or maybe it was before:d?) , she ask Shepard does he remember anything when he was in coma, and he replied that nope:)

It was there before, and that conversation seems irrelevant compared to what was in original script

[Zubie]

She definitely had more spunk in ME1. One of the main reasons I really liked her character.

Modifié par easygame88, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[darthnick427]

Most disappointing how Ash was handled in ME3. I won't deny Kaidan will probably be in my "canon" playthrough permanently now that the EC fixed the dialog bug with Ken/Gabby and Garrus/Tali in engineering. I was hoping she'd be more interesting and a more relatable character but they bearly gave her any dialog and she's antisocial on Normandy. Poor Ash....guess she'll be dying on Virmire from now on. Hopefully Kaidan is more entertaining in ME3 than she was...

Modifié par darthnick427, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:24 .

[Apathy1989]

CptData wrote...

Nah, she changed. Some points that come in my mind:

- Poetry
Ashley doesn't use it in ME3. It's only hinted by her present - and only people who played ME1 know Ashley loves Tennyson.
Poetry was a constant trait of her character in ME1.

- Communicative
Ashley's sitting in her observatory room. She nearly never leaves that room and almost never interacts with anyone, not even Shepard.
Also Ashley is quite on most missions and she gets overridden by other characters.
She never hesitated to speak her mind in ME1.

- Religious
Is not mentioned at any given point.
It was topic of one big dialogue and mentioned several times in others too in ME1.

- Tomboy
Well, Ashley in ME3 does not look like a tomboy soldier girl anymore. In ME1, she was far more tomboyish 'though also very hot. A marine through and through.



Traits that still exist

- Family orientated
Remains, although her family is kinda reduced to Sarah and one dialogue mentioning Ashley's father. There's not much left besides that.

- Distrustful
Ashley was always distrustful towards people (humans and aliens alike) she didn't know.
This trait kinda gets exaggerated by a lot in ME3 and is a defining trait of her character: she doesn't trust Shepard until after Udina's coup - and only if you can convince her.

- Romantic
She still is.

- Closed pervert.
She never was - Ashley was quite open about her sexuality after getting into something more serious with Shepard. "Hellcat on and off the battlefield". She still is in ME3 quite active in that field. Me gusta.



Traits that got twisted:

- Soldier
Somehow she became the team's sniper!soldier in ME3, although she was a grunt in ME1. It's a shame I can't outfit Ashley with a shotgun - her boomstick - anymore.

Hit the nail on the head here. My biggest issue though is lack of character development, especially compared to Kaiden.

[CptData]

Druzgot wrote...

Data, in EC if you took her on the cronos station there is a very(very) short version of conversation about afterlife(or maybe it was before:d?) , she ask Shepard does he remember anything when he was in coma, and he replied that nope:)

That dialogue was available in the original ME3 too. It's more kind of a generic dialogue that's triggered while EDI is unlocking the first door. It is ALSO the only dialogue you can't ignore since the door won't open without checking that console.

Nope, there was a more meaningful dialogue dealing with Shepard's death on board of the Normandy. It's most likely the counterpart to Kaidan's dialogue he HAS right after the Coup.


*sigh* I must say, Ashley alone needs a full DLC reintroducing any missing content plus one or two missions for her, just to get her on a similar level like Liara. Well, this is not going to happen and the chances for a VS DLC are slim at best.

Wish the VS fandom could muster enough supporters for a VS DLC that gives equal amount of content for Kaidan and Ash, improving it a lot. I even could write down ideas how to do that, it's just a waste of time, however ...

[1483749283]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I feel the same way. I don't
begrudge people that liked her in ME3, but to me it felt like a whole
different person. Sure, she hit all of the basic footnotes for ME1
Ashley, but her heart and spirit disappeared.

Yes, this exactly, thank you.

Whoever was in charge of writing Ashley knew that they had to hit all the basic footnotes, as you say, but this isn't sufficient. It felt like a checklist being checked off: poetry (check) family (check). But you've also got to make the whole cohere and she simply didn't... she didn't cohere. It all felt rather perfunctory.

In ME3, basically, as soon as she's on the Normandy, she's supposed to, you know, be ASHLEY. She's supposed to come over and request a tete-a-tete with Shepard like she did so many times in ME1. Honestly after she was finally back on the Normandy, after that horrible affair with Udina, that was a moment begging for some serious emotional reconciliation. Instead to my shock I walk into the lounge and she's all like "Hey Shepard?"

And I was all like "WTF??? Did you and I seriously meld souls before Ilos or did we not? And now 'hey Shepard' is all you've got to say???"

It doesn't matter, anyway, brand new Ashley still can't erase what was for me one of my all-time favorite moments in the trilogy: Ashley's smile as I walk out of the rubble in ME1. The moment I saw that smile I decided that the writers had wrought a masterful tale beyond anything I could have imagined possible in a video game.

[Cecilia L]

When I first played ME1 I hated Ashley. Then she grew on me and now I really like her. In ME2 both she and Kaidan were annoyingly suspicios and cold towards Shepard, but in ME3 at least Kaidan was the same old Kaidan (after some more paranoia and whine).

I just want my ME1 Ashley back!

EDIT:P.S. I think this is why many dislike her re-design. The changes in her look just emphasizes the change in her demeanor. And this is the reason I'm not interested in buying the soon to be released action figure. I would if it had been old Ash in her phoenix armor.

Modifié par Cecilia L, 08 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .

[Obvakhi]

I too was a bit disappointed in the Ashley dialogue.
ME1 Ash had some great one-liners and was the best flirt.... ME3 Ash? Not so much...

[CptData]

By the way, I wasted my time and wrote down stuff to improve Ashley and Kaidan via DLC.

Feel free to discuss.
And yes, this is shameless self-advertisement. I just need to keep the thread alive and active so BW recognizes it ^^

VS Romance DLC