982 réponses à ce sujet

[mauro2222]

Fawx9 wrote...

Uhh synthetics can still be made, so why can't they start a war exactly?

Because they're going to blind them with their glowy green eyes

Modifié par mauro2222, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[Heeden]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Bolded text got that right

That's the danger of all advancement - mankind has more destructive force under his control than at any other point in history, but we are also closer than ever to being a unified race.

What if they don't, there could be societies that keep to themselves and does not rely on technology, are u gonna force them too?

No, if they don't use tech they won't be able to integrate with tech, so Synthesis would do nothing for them.

Yeah, life energy sticking around...too far fetched, u could have simply said a video tape from Shepard, I think that works too

*shrugs* Where does it go if it doesn't stick around?

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Which has nothing to do with what you were saying before. And actually...

The Reaper says organics REPRESENT chaos. Not that they ARE chaos. There's a difference.

Are you serious? Come on.

It's a little strange to accuse people of insecurities when you have to flat out deny what actually happens in the game to carry on with your anti-synth bashing. Like, "the synthesis ending is... good? - LALALALALA NOT LISTENING!!! THROW OUT BUZZWORDS: HUSK! REAPER! SAREN!"

That's called being a sore-loser. Not me.

I'm denying nothing. Meanwhile, you are doing so, repeatedly.

Then allow me to untangle these "twists" (a whopping two of them).

> Organic advancement creates synthetics.
> Organic-synthetic conflict/war ensues inevitably.
> Endless conflict/war as a result of natural organic advancement = chaos.

Do I need to dumb it down any further?

That is not "the chaos of organic life". That would be organics creating chaos. Two different things.
Also, not all organics create synthetics.

You have no proof. And, you're wrong. Several types of organics can inhabit hostile environments easily: krogan, rachni, vorcha...

Which has nothing to do with them being hybrids.

And, machines really can't withstand extreme temperatures all that well either. Read the warnings on your manual next time you buy a laptop if you don't believe me.

The Geth in Haelstrom want a word with you.

LOL. Dirge Ironpec vs. a synthetic three times his size (at least). Yeah, that's not a lopsided wager at all.

Merely a comparison of strength.

How about Liara vs. a LOKI Mech?

Yes, Liara would win. Because a LOKI mech will lose to biotics.
Purely organic biotics, in Liara's case. Why does she need synthesis again?

I see you have a habit of interpreting things wildly out of context. But no, what you alledge of me is completely incorrect.

So you'll just deny what you've said. Fine, be that way. I'm sure others remember.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am in another camp. One that tries to make sense of the same ingame facts, that show radical racial changes, a utopian society, most likely partially a result of Shepard's mix to the stream, in which organics and synthetics are forced against their will to surrender to the reapers and feel good about it.

Its fine that you feel that way, but your end conclusion is not based on those same in game facts.

For example, Its hard to see how we're surrendering  to the Reapers if they're the ones rebuilding our houses. If anything doesn't that argue the reverse? That the machines are working for the organics again? I can't speak for anyone else here, but if 'surrendering to the reapers' means they do my housework, I'm all for it. Just no husks in French Maid outfits please.

I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.

He advocated was synthesis advocates.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:52 .

[Wayning_Star]

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

Also - even if the green-eyed monsters don't leave the galaxy, new stars and new planets will be born, and on them will be born new organic life. What happens when the greenies encounter these 'non enlightened' organics? Do they get assimilated?

if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic.In the end, even the plants and other species of organic life was blended, with synthetic molecules/genes, according to the game.So any new organic/synthetic life that develops wil already be infused with tech AND organic molecule/genetic fabric woven within that matrix.

 What gets folks upset is the the similarity with synthesis, to some ultimate solution, infering that there is inherently something wrong with "other" races as to require extreme measures to (ultimately) correct these errors. The game does infer there are massively effective communication errors within the social infrastructure of all races.

[Memnon]

Fawx9 wrote...

Uhh synthetics can still be made, so why can't they start a war exactly?

Right - this is something I never fully undestood. Is there now no such thing as mechanical automation, robots, synthetics? If we build an automated shipyard is it sentient? Do all programs we write, from the simplest "Hello World" scripts have sentience? What precludes the new green-eyes from making something that will eventually rebel against them?

[Baronesa]

Wayning_Star wrote...


if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic.In the end, even the plants and other species of organic life was blended, with synthetic molecules/genes, according to the game.So any new organic/synthetic life that develops wil already be infused with tech AND organic molecule/genetic fabric woven within that matrix.

 What gets folks upset is the the similarity with synthesis, to some ultimate solution, infering that there is inherently something wrong with "other" races as to require extreme measures to (ultimately) correct these errors. The game does infer there are massively effective communication errors within the social infrastructure of all races.

"if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic."

Currently living.

What about abiogenesis?

Some pre garden world may have no living organism, yet, but once abiogenesis happens, then the organics coming from it will be completely new, and would not be affected by synthesis.

[Heeden]

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...

[quote]Well... I remember a time when gaming had to do with fun. So, some lighthearted entertainment with a fan of genocide and a victim of genophage together infected by another forced racial mutilation, called synthesis, would break the ice. Sorry you didn't like it. [/quote]

To be honest it's hard to tell on this forum if people are just having a bit of fun or have completely missed the point of the lore. I can imagine some of the posters on here do think that sort of conversation is likely in the future.

[quote]I like that you agree that synthesis and mind control go hand in hand. After all, "who Shepard is and what Shepard is" are mixed in the synthesis stream.[/quote]

I find it strange you equate "setting an example" to mind control, especially when I said the Destroy option would be more likely to inspire people down that route so Synthesis essentially has nothing to do with it.

[quote]However, the point is not what Shepard set as an example, the point is that the synthetics threat is inevitable and, according to the brat, so is synthesis. If there is nothing more to synthesize in this galaxy then this inevitability sure raises the question: Are the other galaxies next? After all, there ought to be more in which, no doubt, more evil synthetics and helpless organics exist that need to be protected and synthesized. It has to be that way. It is inevitable.[/quote]

Perhaps the coming together of extra-galactic communities is inevitable, or it may be too great a leap to be made before the heat-death of the universe. It would be up to galactic civilisation to decide how to deal with this if and when it becomes a possibility, I don't see how Synthesis automatically leads to our galaxy becoming an intergalactic hegemonising swarm.

[Memnon]

Wayning_Star wrote...

if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic.In the end, even the plants and other species of organic life was blended, with synthetic molecules/genes, according to the game.So any new organic/synthetic life that develops wil already be infused with tech AND organic molecule/genetic fabric woven within that matrix.
 

I reject this as implausible - first, since the implication is that the Mass Relays are the vehicles for the synthesis beam, I would argue that only star systems with active relays were assimilated. Other systems in the galaxy are still fully organic. And there is absolutely no way that it affected the entire universe, so other galaxies are unsynthesized and they may encounter the greenies some day via wormhole or other means

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Bolded text got that right

That's the danger of all advancement - mankind has more destructive force under his control than at any other point in history, but we are also closer than ever to being a unified race.

What if they don't, there could be societies that keep to themselves and does not rely on technology, are u gonna force them too?

No, if they don't use tech they won't be able to integrate with tech, so Synthesis would do nothing for them.

Yeah, life energy sticking around...too far fetched, u could have simply said a video tape from Shepard, I think that works too

*shrugs* Where does it go if it doesn't stick around?

I thought people unify only under hardship

But they need technology for protection, what if they sit on a gold mine, wouldn't this cause greed and bring war?

[spirosz]

All I see it as is making more efficient killers. It's obvious that it's all rainbow and sunshines, did Javik suddenly forget his beliefs when he turned green? That's what it seems like, flippin' a switch in the individual's brain. I can't see how there is not going to be major consequences with that ending, but from all the visual aspects of the EC - it is basically Utopian.

[mauro2222]

Heeden wrote...

What if they don't, there could be societies that keep to themselves and does not rely on technology, are u gonna force them too?

No, if they don't use tech they won't be able to integrate with tech, so Synthesis would do nothing for them.

But the plants...

[mauro2222]

Baronesa wrote...

"if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic."

Currently living.

What about abiogenesis?

Some pre garden world may have no living organism, yet, but once abiogenesis happens, then the organics coming from it will be completely new, and would not be affected by synthesis.

The cycle continues.

[The Angry One]

Rubios wrote...

Well that is actually true, they can start a war... a lost one.

They'll still be better than hybrids.
By Catalyst logic, synthetics will eventually, inevitably win.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...

Which has nothing to do with what you were saying before. And actually...

The Reaper says organics REPRESENT chaos. Not that they ARE chaos. There's a difference.[/quote]

Are you serious? Come on.[/quote]

I am serious. But this wouldn't be the first time you prove that literary nuances are not your strong-suit.


[quote]I'm denying nothing. Meanwhile, you are doing so, repeatedly.[/quote]

Uh yeah you are. You discredit the positive outcome with wild interpretations backed by no solid facts, thereby denying it. Now you deny that you deny it.

[quote]That is not "the chaos of organic life". That would be organics creating chaos.[/quote]

Well, yes. Isn't that which creates chaos... chaotic? 

[quote]Also, not all organics create synthetics.[/quote]

Whatever. Without organics to create synthetics in the first place, no synthetics would exist. Organic advancement is the root of the synthetics' creation. Always will be.

[quote]
[quote]You have no proof. And, you're wrong. Several types of organics can inhabit hostile environments easily: krogan, rachni, vorcha...[/quote]Which has nothing to do with them being hybrids.[/quote]

So? There's no proof that they'll lose those qualities as hybrid either.


[quote]
[quote]And, machines really can't withstand extreme temperatures all that well either. Read the warnings on your manual next time you buy a laptop if you don't believe me.[/quote]The Geth in Haelstrom want a word with you.[/quote]

Legion's shields will fry if he's in your party. Grunt is not effected.



[quote]
[quote]LOL. Dirge Ironpec vs. a synthetic three times his size (at least). Yeah, that's not a lopsided wager at all.[/quote]
Merely a comparison of strength.[/quote]

So? Brute force is not the end-all be-all in determining superior power. Otherwise, the Krogan, Batarians, and Vorcha would rule all in the galaxy.


[quote]
[quote]How about Liara vs. a LOKI Mech?[/quote]
Yes, Liara would win. Because a LOKI mech will lose to biotics.
Purely organic biotics, in Liara's case. Why does she need synthesis again?[/quote]

A feral varren could beat a LOKI mech. Which, again, proves nothing.


[quote]
[quote]I see you have a habit of interpreting things wildly out of context. But no, what you alledge of me is completely incorrect.[/quote]So you'll just deny what you've said. Fine, be that way. I'm sure others remember.[/quote]

I wouldn't be proud of leaning on people equally as dumb, but okay. You all know me better than I do.

[DistantUtopia]

Ok, I normally avoid threads like these because I'm pretty much tired of the ME franchise (for various reasons, endings included) but this piqued my curiosity.

I do agree that Synthesis could be an intergalactic threat but not necessarily in the "You will be assimilated" sort of way.

Here's what we've seen/heard in-game:

1.) Everything has 'glowy bits'
2.) Organics can "interface" with synthetics (whatever that means)
3.) Synthetics can now understand organics
4.) Reapers were helping to rebuild.
5.) EDI believes this is the 'best' thing that could happen to galactic society.

Now here's what I've speculated from each bullet

) Everything has 'glowy bits'
- Organics are now partly synthetic
- Because organics are now partly synthetic, Reapers now "choose" to stop reaping us.\\
2.) Organics can interface with synthetics
- I got nothing here...
3.) Synthetics can now understand organics
- Synthetics gain an understanding of organic nature/behavior.  Not sure how this really applies if you had Legion because Geth already did seem to have a pretty good understanding of organics and were willing to work with them (before the Quarian snafu)
- How does this apply to future synthetics? If some one decides to create new synthetics, how are we assured they get the same understanding as the Geth?
- Does this same understanding carry over to the Reapers? Or are the Reapers untouched by the green beam of happiness?  All Hackett says is we now have access to their knowledge.
4.) Reapers helping rebuild
- This can be taken as one of several ways as others have already mentioned
   - They were affected by the green beam and emphasize with the organics, helping to rebuild the damage they caused
   - They are simply helping us rebuild because "we're one of them"
5.) EDI believes this is the "best" thing for us
- Here's where speculation abounds.  How does society as a whole believe on this?  Inter-galactic travel is not far off and a 2.5 year journey to the closest galaxy is actually not a bad journey.  Reapers are already speculated to not need to discharge their drive cores so that limitation is gone.  We also don't know if they need fuel as well so a Reaper-based starship travelling to the next galaxy is pretty believable given EDI's speech.
- Even if there is no "mind control" involved, what is the new synthesis galaxy going to make of non-synthesis species when they eventually meet?  Will they simply accept them as different? will they try to advocate synthesis and force it down their throats?  Again, nothing in-game suggests otherwise but EDI's speech can be taken either way.

tl;dr; version, Yes, it's possible.  Probable?  Who knows?

[Wayning_Star]

Baronesa wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...


if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic.In the end, even the plants and other species of organic life was blended, with synthetic molecules/genes, according to the game.So any new organic/synthetic life that develops wil already be infused with tech AND organic molecule/genetic fabric woven within that matrix.

 What gets folks upset is the the similarity with synthesis, to some ultimate solution, infering that there is inherently something wrong with "other" races as to require extreme measures to (ultimately) correct these errors. The game does infer there are massively effective communication errors within the social infrastructure of all races.

"if you synthesize, you do it to EVERYTHING, organic."

Currently living.

What about abiogenesis?

Some pre garden world may have no living organism, yet, but once abiogenesis happens, then the organics coming from it will be completely new, and would not be affected by synthesis.

it's space magical, , but possible with ageless reaper tech, as they've been at it for about ever.  As the story unfolded, there is evidence that ALL the planets in the known MEU is affected directly and instantaniously with synthesis. It's a common denominator to 'all things'. If time were a consideration, we here and now would have little to identify with with in the current MEU. We can only decide with what we know as facts. Relatively speaking, there would be no pre garden worlds, in any event, not affected by the transition. Think "Eden".. http://en.wikipedia..../Garden_of_Eden ..(if you want to, that is:)

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I am serious. But this wouldn't be the first time you prove that literary nuances are not your strong-suit.

You're just going to continue the passive-aggressive insults despite being told not to. Okay.

Uh yeah you are. You discredit the positive outcome with wild interpretations backed by no solid facts, thereby denying it. Now you deny that you deny it.

Again, I deny nothing. I point out the facts of the game.

Well, yes. Isn't that which creates chaos... chaotic? 

The Reapers create chaos every 50,000 years yet claim to represent order. So no. Not by Catalyst logic.

Whatever. Without organics to create synthetics in the first place, no synthetics would exist. Organic advancement is the root of the synthetics' creation. Always will be.

Irrelevant. Not all organics create synthetics, therefore organic life cannot be called inherently chaotic just because of that.

So? There's no proof that they'll lose those qualities as hybrid either.

My point is, there will be hybrids without those qualities, that those qualities don't give them advantages over synthetics (according to the Catalyst) and a pure synthetic is more durable even than a vorcha.

Legion's shields will fry if he's in your party. Grunt is not effected.

Gameplay. The Geth are LIVING on that planet.

So? Brute force is not the end-all be-all in determining superior power. Otherwise, the Krogan, Batarians, and Vorcha would rule all in the galaxy.

That was the most blunt comparison I could think of.
EDI will still be smarter than the smartest human.
The Geth will still be more versatile than hybrids.
Etc. etc.

A feral varren could beat a LOKI mech. Which, again, proves nothing.

By your logic it proves organics > synthetics.

I wouldn't be proud of leaning on people equally as dumb, but okay. You all know me better than I do.

I'm trying to debate you civilly but you insist on behaving like this. Sigh.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[Memnon]

This notion of chaos vs order is silly - anything that has freewill is by nature chaotic, period. A deterministic program, a finite state machine ... order. A sentient being - synthetic or organic - is chaotic simply by being able to determine its own destiny

[The Angry One]

Stornskar wrote...

This notion of chaos vs order is silly - anything that has freewill is by nature chaotic, period. A deterministic program, a finite state machine ... order. A sentient being - synthetic or organic - is chaotic simply by being able to determine its own destiny

True, but that's Spacebaby logic for you. Broken as broken can be.

[Welsh Inferno]

Trying to explain things to people who do not want to know is pointless.

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.

He advocated was synthesis advocates.

No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.

Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.

Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.

The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.

[The Angry One]

Cutlass Jack wrote..

No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.

Synthesis does not change the Reapers.

Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.

Synthesis is about total submission to the Reaper ideal.
Again, the Catalyst wants synthesis. It's tried it before. That the Reapers are doing the reconstruction is irrelevant - that's one of the things Reapers are good at.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Rhayak]

The Angry One wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

Yeah right, it will take ERAS to fully explore and colonize one galaxy. To think war will be the only solution the hybrids can come up with after that is merely a choice to be pessimist.

We're dealing with in game facts here. Synthesis promotes the idea that the existence of organics and synthetics as seperate entities is intolerable, and the only reason the Reapers stop harvesting us is because we're now hybrids.

You know the phrase "the devil finds work for idle hands"? How long before the Reapers come to realise that organic life exists elsewhere, and with that so does chaos? Will their work ever be done?

Indeed, Reapers stop harvesting us and start helping because we are hybrids.  So yeah, we can guess non-hybrid races would still be seen as targets.

But they're programmed to just "tend" to our galaxy, not actively search for other galaxies to harvest.

Even if they planned to, Andromeda is like 2.5 million light years away. An inconceivably vast distance even if you bring fantasy propulsion systems, relays and whatnot, into the equation. 

The hybrid civilization would have to worry about the very heat death of the universe long before the Reapers reached Andromeda.

Modifié par Rhayak, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:18 .