Guest_Rubios_*
Stornskar wrote...
This notion of chaos vs order is silly - anything that has freewill is by nature chaotic, period. A deterministic program, a finite state machine ... order. A sentient being - synthetic or organic - is chaotic simply by being able to determine its own destiny
Yeah. The topics here are depressing. We didn't choose them to be in the game. I just speak about the disgust I have for all of the atrocities in the game. And that's true for synthesis as well. It is invoked without the consent of anyone involved. It is again violating the right of self-determination. It paints a picture of a Disney-like utopian pipe dream. Not even the moment synthesis strikes is causing anyone physical pain. They are not shocked, not surprised, nor do they seem to feel anything else, but joy. I wouldn't be surprised that husks are babysitting the krogan babies now.Heeden wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Well... I remember a time when gaming had to do with fun. So, some lighthearted entertainment with a fan of genocide and a victim of genophage together infected by another forced racial mutilation, called synthesis, would break the ice. Sorry you didn't like it.
To be honest it's hard to tell on this forum if people are just having a bit of fun or have completely missed the point of the lore. I can imagine some of the posters on here do think that sort of conversation is likely in the future.AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I like that you agree that synthesis and mind control go hand in hand. After all, "who Shepard is and what Shepard is" are mixed in the synthesis stream.
I find it strange you equate "setting an example" to mind control, especially when I said the Destroy option would be more likely to inspire people down that route so Synthesis essentially has nothing to do with it.AngryFrozenWater wrote...
However, the point is not what Shepard set as an example, the point is that the synthetics threat is inevitable and, according to the brat, so is synthesis. If there is nothing more to synthesize in this galaxy then this inevitability sure raises the question: Are the other galaxies next? After all, there ought to be more in which, no doubt, more evil synthetics and helpless organics exist that need to be protected and synthesized. It has to be that way. It is inevitable.
Perhaps the coming together of extra-galactic communities is inevitable, or it may be too great a leap to be made before the heat-death of the universe. It would be up to galactic civilisation to decide how to deal with this if and when it becomes a possibility, I don't see how Synthesis automatically leads to our galaxy becoming an intergalactic hegemonising swarm.
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:27 .
Rhayak wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Rhayak wrote...
Yeah right, it will take ERAS to fully explore and colonize one galaxy. To think war will be the only solution the hybrids can come up with after that is merely a choice to be pessimist.
We're dealing with in game facts here. Synthesis promotes the idea that the existence of organics and synthetics as seperate entities is intolerable, and the only reason the Reapers stop harvesting us is because we're now hybrids.
You know the phrase "the devil finds work for idle hands"? How long before the Reapers come to realise that organic life exists elsewhere, and with that so does chaos? Will their work ever be done?
Indeed, Reapers stop harvesting us and start helping because we are hybrids. So yeah, we can guess non-hybrid races would still be seen as targets.
But they're programmed to just "tend" to our galaxy, not actively search for other galaxies to harvest.
Even if they planned to, Andromeda is like 2.5 million light years away. An inconceivably vast distance even if you bring fantasy propulsion systems, relays and whatnot, into the equation.
The hybrid civilization would have to worry about the very heat death of the universe long before the Reapers reached Andromeda.
The Angry One wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote..
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis does not change the Reapers.Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Synthesis is about total submission to the Reaper ideal.
Again, the Catalyst wants synthesis. It's tried it before. That the Reapers are doing the reconstruction is irrelevant - that's one of the things Reapers are good at.
The Angry One wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote..
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis does not change the Reapers.Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Synthesis is about total submission to the Reaper ideal.
Again, the Catalyst wants synthesis. It's tried it before. That the Reapers are doing the reconstruction is irrelevant - that's one of the things Reapers are good at.
Rhayak wrote...
Indeed, Reapers stop harvesting us and start helping because we are hybrids. So yeah, we can guess non-hybrid races would still be seen as targets.
But they're programmed to just "tend" to our galaxy, not actively search for other galaxies to harvest.
Even if they planned to, Andromeda is like 2.5 million light years away. An inconceivably vast distance even if you bring fantasy propulsion systems, relays and whatnot, into the equation.
The hybrid civilization would have to worry about the very heat death of the universe long before the Reapers reached Andromeda.
Modifié par KingZayd, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .
Rubios wrote...
Stornskar wrote...
This notion of chaos vs order is silly - anything that has freewill is by nature chaotic, period. A deterministic program, a finite state machine ... order. A sentient being - synthetic or organic - is chaotic simply by being able to determine its own destiny
https://en.wikipedia...iki/Determinism
I'll just leave this here...
the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..Cutlass Jack wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.
"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.
He advocated was synthesis advocates.
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.
The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.
The Angry One wrote...
And, machines really can't withstand extreme temperatures all that well either. Read the warnings on your manual next time you buy a laptop if you don't believe me.
The Geth in Haelstrom want a word with you.
Wayning_Star wrote...
the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..Cutlass Jack wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.
"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.
He advocated was synthesis advocates.
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.
The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Synthesis doesnt change the Reapers only if you completely ignore everything that was shown on that ending.
Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:29 .
Rhayak wrote...
Indeed, Reapers stop harvesting us and start helping because we are hybrids. So yeah, we can guess non-hybrid races would still be seen as targets.
But they're programmed to just "tend" to our galaxy, not actively search for other galaxies to harvest.
Even if they planned to, Andromeda is like 2.5 million light years away. An inconceivably vast distance even if you bring fantasy propulsion systems, relays and whatnot, into the equation.
The hybrid civilization would have to worry about the very heat death of the universe long before the Reapers reached Andromeda.
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:30 .
Wayning_Star wrote...
the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..
The Angry One wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Synthesis doesnt change the Reapers only if you completely ignore everything that was shown on that ending.
Giving them a green overlay =! changing.
Their philosophy is vindicated, their ideal is realised. You tell me. How are they changed?
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .
the catalyst was the reapers, enslaved by their/its need to inhibit chaos that is free thinking. Free thinking is what caused the geth to revolt, once they were able to 'decide' what is meant to decide.KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..Cutlass Jack wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.
"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.
He advocated was synthesis advocates.
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.
The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.
Reaper catalyst unable to lie as the reapers think in absolutes, but Reapers enslaved to Reaper catalyst? Please explain?
Welsh Inferno wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Synthesis doesnt change the Reapers only if you completely ignore everything that was shown on that ending.
Giving them a green overlay =! changing.
Their philosophy is vindicated, their ideal is realised. You tell me. How are they changed?
So I guess Synthesis changes nothing for us then. Seeing as everyone else gets a similar change in appearance.
They do change.
Modifié par CrutchCricket, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:38 .
Sarevok Synder wrote...
Actually, in the Mass Effect universe, FTL speeds are about 12 Light years every 24 hours. 2.5Million/12 = 208333.33333 days/ 365 = about 571 years. That's nothing for a Reaper.
The Angry One wrote...
Even if we set aside the limits of intergalactic travel, I think the principle of the idea is what's important here.
That is, how hybrids + Reapers will view organic life.
Whether it be from other galaxies, or newly formed life in this galaxy, the thing is synthesis seems to promote the idea that organic life is the problem when the truth is the Reapers are the problem, always have been the problem and always will be the problem.
Modifié par Rhayak, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:38 .
Welsh Inferno wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Synthesis doesnt change the Reapers only if you completely ignore everything that was shown on that ending.
Giving them a green overlay =! changing.
Their philosophy is vindicated, their ideal is realised. You tell me. How are they changed?
So I guess Synthesis changes nothing for us then. Seeing as everyone else gets a similar change in appearance.
They do change.
Wayning_Star wrote...
the catalyst was the reapers, enslaved by their/its need to inhibit chaos that is free thinking. Free thinking is what caused the geth to revolt, once they were able to 'decide' what is meant to decide.KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..Cutlass Jack wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.
"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.
He advocated was synthesis advocates.
No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.
Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.
Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.
The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.
Reaper catalyst unable to lie as the reapers think in absolutes, but Reapers enslaved to Reaper catalyst? Please explain?
CrutchCricket wrote...
What I find funny about all this is that people are so caught up in synthetics vs organics that they seem to forget about more straightforward concepts... like us vs them.
Every species in Mass Effect has a bone to pick with someone else. Everyone's getting blamed for something.
Asari for hording tech
Turians for genophage
Salarians for genophage, attempting to uplift yahg
Humans for Cerberus and Shepard (say what you will but quite a few people will not be amused by green ****)
Batarians hate everyone that isn't them and didn't get wiped out
Quarian-geth- will be seen as a threat given that together they're the second largest superpower
Reapers- past atrocities, seen as a threat for being largest superpower.
Minor races: Tired of getting sidelined by the big boys.
Oh and don't forget the yahg- you know the race that was the strengths of everybody put together and then some...
Now these animosities will likely show up sooner or later in every ending (except refuse I guess) +/- Reapers and synthetics.So yeah all epilogues show hopeful rebuilding and everyone happy. But really it's only a matter of time before the accusations start flying. So you have an age of strife on your hands, with the races battling it out and clearing the bad blood.
Except in synthesis you now have everyone with superpowers. Now tell me again why (if everyone's still themselves) they won't use their "higher understanding" to wipe out their enemies faster? Oh and the green wave was a one time thing right? So bottom line everyone kills each other off and new organic life is on its own, right back to the beginning.
lol. "final solution" indeed.
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