982 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...

You parade around this forum insulting people to their faces, you don't see me complaining.[/quote]

I do no such thing. Point to an example of me doing so or kindly retract this statement.[/quote]

AWWW HELL NAHH.

http://social.biowar...5041/2#12365855

Knowing you, you will deny that's an insult. In which case, I will point you to the same sort of comment being made at you and how you responded to it.

http://social.biowar...5041/2#12365986 



As I said from the very start, you believe "it's not trolling if *I* am doing it!"



[quote]
[quote]Irrelevant. The process is chaos (because organics resist it) but the end result is order.[/quote]The end result is a cycle that results in more chaos.
It would be chaos even if organics didn't resist. Blasting cities? Smashing things? Death and mayhem?[/quote]

That chaos is a means to an end. Order is that end.


[quote]Synthetics being chaotic is only possible due to the fact that organics have created them with the capability to be that way.

Shepard: "We created them."
Javik: "And gave them the power to surpass you."[/quote]

Which, again, doesn't apply to all organics, so this is also irrelevant.[/quote]

Wat?


[quote]
[quote]You've yet to even prove that soundly.[/quote]I have. You're even arguing for it and you don't appear to realise it.[/quote]


[quote]So now you're hiding behind the inaccuracy of the writers.
Sorry, you don't get to do that. The Geth inhabit that planet and walk about in the open, therefore they are able to survive there. Period.[/quote]

If you didn't do the same, neither would I. So I do get to do that.

Also, I'm 99% they do not live on the planet. I'm 99% sure Legion says in ME2 that they don't live on planets, period. There are some of them on Rannoch, but they are merely acting as custodians for the creators' return.

The reason they are present during the mission is because they were aware of quarian presense and therefore brought a hostile response from off-planet (where they really live).

Again, the exact details are sketchy, but I'm pretty sure it was something like that.


[quote]
[quote]No she won't. The human "matrix" will be altered to change the balance of power between organics and synthetics. I mean, that's the entire point of it.[/quote]To change, yes. To enhance, sure. To surpass a pure synthetic? Unlikely. They will still be limited by partially organic brains.[/quote]

If organic brains are the limiting factor then improve the capabilites of the brain. How hard can that be for a Reaper?

[quote]It's an example.[/quote]

An example which proves nothing. Krogan brute force was beaten by salarian scientific innovation with the genophage.


[quote]I never insult. I mock arguments, not people. You insist on making it personal. To which again, I say: Sigh.[/quote]

Lies. See top.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:17 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Anyway. I agree with you that the whole thing is nonsense. Before the ending it was best to greet Marauder Shields and call it a day. After the EC there is really not anything new to go past him. If I had to choose then it wouldn't be synthesis. There is no Shepard will ever be able to sit on a beach and drink that bottle of rum, except to forgot all thos horrors, Jack.

<_<

Ahh thats your problem. You need to drink the rum before you greet Marauder Shields (who's actually 'Marauder Health' now).

I need to edit that post. Are there any words in there without a typo?

If I drink that bottle of rum before Marauder Health then I am sure I can't even come close to him. It's inevitable.

[mauro2222]

Torrible wrote...

snip

You can understand and not accept at the same time.

[Memnon]

Torrible wrote...


Wrong. Synthesis can only lead to a greater understanding amongst the various species. 

A lot of bigotry and hate in this world is based on prejudice and a lack of understanding of perspectives of the Other. Anti-gay groups fail to understand that gays have no choice over their inclinations for example. People fail to understand that those with OCD can't control their outbursts any more than they can control a hiccup. 

For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

It is voluntary, you suppose? That's the point, it is not voluntary. You're advocating a loss of identiy to achieve ... something? "Understanding" does not achieve peace ... 

[Pacifien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Let's get one thing straight: The brat is able to lie. Proof of that are indoctrination, intrigue to turn synthetics against organics, and use a disguise as an innocent child when it committed the most atrocities of any being in our galaxy in aeons.

I know, and I appreciate a good Machiavellian opponent.

[The Angry One]

Torrible wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...


For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

So Synthetics can choose  to reject "understanding of organics", as can the Reapers?

Not all have to. It takes only a few who are willing to share their thoughts, knowledge and experiences for the peace building process to begin.

I've got a question then. Why do some like you think every part of synthesis is voluntary... when synthesis itself is *not* voluntary?

[Wayning_Star]

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.

He advocated was synthesis advocates.

No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.

Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.

Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.

The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.

the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..

Reaper catalyst unable to lie as the reapers think in absolutes, but Reapers enslaved to Reaper catalyst? Please explain?

the catalyst was the reapers, enslaved by their/its need to inhibit chaos that is free thinking. Free thinking is what caused the geth to revolt, once they were able to 'decide' what is meant to decide.

Starchild created the first Reaper. It tells us this. Therefore if Starchild is telling the truth, it is not Reaper.

the starchild is a/the acual/only reaper, didn't create them, the "reaperships" are merely a plurality of the catalyst.They are the shovel, the catalyst is the hand. The game never states who created the catalyst.(heck, maybe humans did in some paralell universe,he did look like a kid?!?) The reaperships are self assembled, via the catalyst,hence the name "catalyst", from other species, all organic. I don't know what you're infering with the riddle about truth telling making the catalyst not a reaper by telling the truth,relating to the inablity to lie as it's unable to because of it's programming and design.The catalyst has no rational for deception other than with interaction with organics.  

The catalyst says "the Creators did", because they realised conflict would always arise between organics and synthetics.

When Shepard asks what happened to the Creators? "They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution."

Ergo, Starchild is not really a Reaper if its telling the truth.

uh, I didn't get that memo..lol  I don't remember anythng like that in the end scenes, the kid explaining 'exatly' about creators,etc. He does, however, state "we" and "us" in the dialogue, so he's all the reapers in cute kid form.

[General User]

Pacifien wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Their philosophy is vindicated, their ideal is realised. You tell me. How are they changed?

I'm not sure what philosophy is vindicated. What philosophy did you think the Reapers have?

As far as I could tell, they believed organics were doomed unless the Reapers turned them into Reapers. With Synthesis, everyone didn't turn into Reapers in the end, and it appears the Reapers stopped trying to turn them into Reapers. That's a significant change.

T'is my understanding that the Catalyst believed that organic and synthetic life were somehow fundamentally at odds, and that synthetics will eventually wipe out organics.  The later is non-falsifiable (though in-game experiences and lore speak against it), and the former is simply wrong (as evidenced by in-game characters).

The Reapers and the Reaper cycle was more of a stop-gap.  Something the Catalyst came up with to "keep a lid on things" while it worked towards it's true goal: Synthesis.  So, by implementing "the Synthesis solution", you're implying that the problem it was meant to solve was real in the first place.

Modifié par General User, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:23 .

[KingZayd]

Torrible wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...


For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

So Synthetics can choose  to reject "understanding of organics", as can the Reapers?

Not all have to. It takes only a few who are willing to share their thoughts, knowledge and experiences for the peace building process to begin. For example, the subjective experience of having a Korgan outburst can be stored in data form and easily accessed by other species. 

peace building process? We had built peace between us and synthetics already... an alliance even.

If the Geth choose to opt out, what stops them? Why not go for the Singularity?

[Memnon]

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

When Shepard asks what happened to the Creators? "They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution."

Ergo, Starchild is not really a Reaper if its telling the truth.

uh, I didn't get that memo..lol  I don't remember anythng like that in the end scenes, the kid explaining 'exatly' about creators,etc. He does, however, state "we" and "us" in the dialogue, so he's all the reapers in cute kid form.

Yep, that was added with the EC. The starbrat explains that the creators made him to solve the organics vs synthetics problem, and that the Reapers were provided to him by the creators to fulfill that goal. He then says he turned them into the first "true" Reapers (implying he gray gooped them) and that they did not approve

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...


AWWW HELL NAHH.

http://social.biowar...5041/2#12365855

Knowing you, you will deny that's an insult. In which case, I will point you to the same sort of comment being made at you and how you responded to it.

http://social.biowar...5041/2#12365986 



As I said from the very start, you believe "it's not trolling if *I* am doing it!"

THAT is the best you can come up with? Considering the things you have said to me?
No, the first is not an insult, the second...  I noted that someone who hoped I would never have a child, which is outrageously insulting was trolling me.

Seriously.

That chaos is a means to an end. Order is that end.

You can justify it all you want, it's still chaos.

Wat?

For your idea to work, it must apply to ALL organics. "the chaos of organic life"

If you didn't do the same, neither would I. So I do get to do that.

I have criticised BioWare's writing, I have never hidden behind it to support a point.
So again, the Geth on Haelstrom disprove your assertion. Which was wrong to begin with, since you're comparing a modern day laptop to sapient machines from the future.

If organic brains are the limiting factor then improve the capabilites of the brain. How hard can that be for a Reaper?

Apparently very since they've never been able to do it by themselves.

An example which proves nothing. Krogan brute force was beaten by salarian scientific innovation with the genophage.

Again, that was an example using strength alone, there are various ways synthetics are still superior to hybrids.

Lies. See top.

Again, that's nothing. Less than nothing. Really, this is becoming absurd.

[KingZayd]

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wish the brat dreamed up that it was inevitable that a bottle of rum was on each table, but as you know (to return the to topic), he has chosen that the synthetics threat and synthesis were inevitable.

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?" - Saren Arterius.

He advocated was synthesis advocates.

No Saren advocated submission. That those surrendering to the Reapers would be spared. Nothing in his faulty belief involved changing the Reapers in any way.

Synthesis is about equality, not submission. Synthesis is leveling the playing field between Organics and Synthetics. And this was shown in the EC. But again, I'd like to point out, the Synths were doing all the heavy lifting in that relationship. Those would be the facts as shown. There was zero evidence of organics losing free will anywhere in that.

Now if you'd like to point out the sheer unbelievability of the 'space magic' that makes Synthesis possible, I'm right there with you. Or if you'd like to argue the folly of believing a word out of the catalyst's mouth at the time of choice, thats also fair.

The only 'logical' choice was Reject, and we know how that turns out.

the reaper catalyst is unable to 'lie', per se, as the reapers think in absolutes, no room for error. It's what lead to their main recurring error, harvest/guard cycle. They were so sure it was the correct approach to free thinking..er chaos. What is not spoken of much, is that the reapers were creations of millions of years of aquired knowledge of "organic" races. Synthetics,even reapers, didn't suspect they were being enslaved by the very thing they were avoiding..

Reaper catalyst unable to lie as the reapers think in absolutes, but Reapers enslaved to Reaper catalyst? Please explain?

the catalyst was the reapers, enslaved by their/its need to inhibit chaos that is free thinking. Free thinking is what caused the geth to revolt, once they were able to 'decide' what is meant to decide.

Starchild created the first Reaper. It tells us this. Therefore if Starchild is telling the truth, it is not Reaper.

the starchild is a/the acual/only reaper, didn't create them, the "reaperships" are merely a plurality of the catalyst.They are the shovel, the catalyst is the hand. The game never states who created the catalyst.(heck, maybe humans did in some paralell universe,he did look like a kid?!?) The reaperships are self assembled, via the catalyst,hence the name "catalyst", from other species, all organic. I don't know what you're infering with the riddle about truth telling making the catalyst not a reaper by telling the truth,relating to the inablity to lie as it's unable to because of it's programming and design.The catalyst has no rational for deception other than with interaction with organics.  

The catalyst says "the Creators did", because they realised conflict would always arise between organics and synthetics.

When Shepard asks what happened to the Creators? "They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution."

Ergo, Starchild is not really a Reaper if its telling the truth.

uh, I didn't get that memo..lol  I don't remember anythng like that in the end scenes, the kid explaining 'exatly' about creators,etc. He does, however, state "we" and "us" in the dialogue, so he's all the reapers in cute kid form.

Extended Cut?

[CrutchCricket]

Torrible wrote...
Wrong. Synthesis can only lead to a greater understanding amongst the various species. 

A lot of bigotry and hate in this world is based on prejudice and a lack of understanding of perspectives of the Other. Anti-gay groups fail to understand that gays have no choice over their inclinations for example. People fail to understand that those with OCD can't control their outbursts any more than they can control a hiccup.

So I've heard. Believe it or not not all bigots are retards. Some of them are very intelligent and quite capable of grasping that gays have no control over their inclinations. Doesn't stop them from considering gays an abomination that needs to be purged.

For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

The underlined is key. You think people with deep-set prejudices or fears will be particularly interested in accessing those memories? Or that again they'll react the way you think they do when they know? What's to stop a salarian from instead saying "Holy ****, that's what they see? **** this noise we need to exterminate them NOW. It's a miracle they've been kept in check so long but we can't keep pushing our luck."

The overall point here is more important: either synthesis "improves" us but leaves our minds fundamentally the same or it doesn't. If it does you've just turned a bare knuckle brawl into nuclear war. If it doesn't you just violated all life by purging its current state without its consent. Neither is a winning scenario.

[Pacifien]

The Angry One wrote...
They believe this because of the above. Everyone is now a hybrid, so now they can exist in peace because all differences have been removed. ()

Tsk. Lucky for me, when I chose Synthesis, the last thing I think is that anyone is going to live in a utopia forever just because an epilogue says so.

Nor do I think all differences have been removed.

Modifié par Pacifien, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:25 .

[Rhayak]

This just came to me: Synthesis is like smearing everyone with mayonnaise, in an universe where everyone loves mayo. If you put it on bread, bread does not cease to be bread.

.... also, if you hand me some alleged "tiger repellant" and then we spend ten years running around naked in Malaysia, covered in lamb blood, and no tiger bites us, it works!

[Torrible]

 

mauro2222 wrote...

You can understand and not accept at the same time.

 

True. However, those who can understand are more willing/likely to accept.  Those who can accept are less likely to start conflicts.

The Angry One wrote...
I've got a question then. Why do some like you think every part of synthesis is voluntary... when synthesis itself is *not* voluntary?

Synthesis obviously allows for some level of mind-link. The prospect of that mind-link being non-voluntary is horrifying. Billions of thoughts screaming in one's head can literally drive everyone mad. In the epilogue slides, I see serenity, not madness.

[Wayning_Star]

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...


For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

So Synthetics can choose  to reject "understanding of organics", as can the Reapers?

Not all have to. It takes only a few who are willing to share their thoughts, knowledge and experiences for the peace building process to begin. For example, the subjective experience of having a Korgan outburst can be stored in data form and easily accessed by other species. 

peace building process? We had built peace between us and synthetics already... an alliance even.

If the Geth choose to opt out, what stops them? Why not go for the Singularity?

simple answer: need

[Pacifien]

The Angry One wrote...
Again, that's nothing. Less than nothing. Really, this is becoming absurd.

Then stop. Both of you. Seriously, you don't have to respond to each other, but I do have to see you guys clutter up a thread with your personal bickering that should go to PM.

[The Angry One]

Torrible wrote...

Synthesis obviously allows for some level of mind-link. The prospect of that mind-link being non-voluntary is horrifying. Billions of thoughts screaming in one's head can literally drive everyone mad. In the epilogue slides, I see serenity, not madness.

Synthesis itself is horrifying. What you see in the epilogue is docility.

[The Angry One]

Pacifien wrote...

Then stop. Both of you. Seriously, you don't have to respond to each other, but I do have to see you guys clutter up a thread with your personal bickering that should go to PM.

Most of my post is responding to his points, I fail to see how that's bickering.
I'm also asking him to stop insulting and accusing me of doing so, instead he posts up links to, well, nothing at all because he refuses to back down - I can't help that. I have been trying to debate civilly for several pages now.

[KingZayd]

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Torrible wrote...


For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

So Synthetics can choose  to reject "understanding of organics", as can the Reapers?

Not all have to. It takes only a few who are willing to share their thoughts, knowledge and experiences for the peace building process to begin. For example, the subjective experience of having a Korgan outburst can be stored in data form and easily accessed by other species. 

peace building process? We had built peace between us and synthetics already... an alliance even.

If the Geth choose to opt out, what stops them? Why not go for the Singularity?

simple answer: need

need for what? in response to which question?

[Pacifien]

The Angry One wrote...
I've got a question then. Why do some like you think every part of synthesis is voluntary... when synthesis itself is *not* voluntary?

Because the two don't have to be seen as intertwined.

I mean, you could. But you don't have to.

[Wayning_Star]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Torrible wrote...
Wrong. Synthesis can only lead to a greater understanding amongst the various species. 

A lot of bigotry and hate in this world is based on prejudice and a lack of understanding of perspectives of the Other. Anti-gay groups fail to understand that gays have no choice over their inclinations for example. People fail to understand that those with OCD can't control their outbursts any more than they can control a hiccup.

So I've heard. Believe it or not not all bigots are retards. Some of them are very intelligent and quite capable of grasping that gays have no control over their inclinations. Doesn't stop them from considering gays an abomination that needs to be purged.

For example, the Salarians have always thought of the Krogans as belligerent, uncontrollable animals. Synthesis allows (it is voluntary, I supppose. One should not have billions of thoughts forced into one's brain) the sharing of thoughts, memories and  subjective conscious experiences, a voluntary mindlink so to speak. With Synthesis, memories can be digitised and neural-machine interfacing all too possible (note that Biotic implants are already possible pre-Synthesis).

Now a Salarian is capable of understanding how a Krogan metaphorically and literally 'sees red'. The Salarian might now think, "It's amazing how a Krogan keeps all that anger under control". 

This, combined with a higher evolved thinking and an extensive knowledge about human and alien psychology can lead to much fewer conflicts. At least those conflicts stemming from prejudice, fear and lack of understanding can be eliminated. 

The underlined is key. You think people with deep-set prejudices or fears will be particularly interested in accessing those memories? Or that again they'll react the way you think they do when they know? What's to stop a salarian from instead saying "Holy ****, that's what they see? **** this noise we need to exterminate them NOW. It's a miracle they've been kept in check so long but we can't keep pushing our luck."

The overall point here is more important: either synthesis "improves" us but leaves our minds fundamentally the same or it doesn't. If it does you've just turned a bare knuckle brawl into nuclear war. If it doesn't you just violated all life by purging its current state without its consent. Neither is a winning scenario.

the reaper demands we have no chaos, unless we destroy all sentient live not organic, they'll keep up the pressure by melting us down for random DNA to build reaperships. Like mentioned elswhere, there is no option for deleting the reaper catalyst other than to erase the the threat of synthetics. So, we absorb them with synthesis. If you can't beat'em, join'em?

[The Angry One]

Pacifien wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
I've got a question then. Why do some like you think every part of synthesis is voluntary... when synthesis itself is *not* voluntary?

Because the two don't have to be seen as intertwined.

I mean, you could. But you don't have to.

Personally I just don't see how consent is going to be held in high regard in a new order started by an act of total violation.

[tettenjager]

The Angry One wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Synthesis obviously allows for some level of mind-link. The prospect of that mind-link being non-voluntary is horrifying. Billions of thoughts screaming in one's head can literally drive everyone mad. In the epilogue slides, I see serenity, not madness.

Synthesis itself is horrifying. What you see in the epilogue is docility.

that is your opinion, and your opinion is not more right than mine or anyone else, plz learn this