982 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

And this absolves it how? It still came up with this crap. That's like saying a murderers parents are definitely responsible for his actions.

Well if those parents heavilly indoctrinated the child to pursue a course of action, and the only way to complete it was to commit murder, and the child commited murder; I would definitely be inclined to place the blame at the parents feet and want to help the child rather than murder him in return.

But they didn't. It came up with this all on its own. It's like the parents said, watch out for strangers, then the child grows up and murders all strangers, but not before killing the parents first.

Yeah, a good psychiatric hospital for the rest of his life would be a good place for your kid. I certainly wouldn't be joining forces with him for any reason.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Was Shepards brain liquidised, no.
Javik using space magic to feel what happened, doesn't make the room conscious.
I've yet to see the Asari mind swap with liquid.
He used a neural link up.

The correct answer was space magic, but I would also have accepted genetic memory.

[Sarevok Synder]

Wayning_Star wrote...



brain was frozen mush, all chemical reactions null.DNA genetic memories intact.   Javick was locked in a stasis field, no depreciation there, Asari linked with plant life as a liquid form/essence. Asari linked with Sheppard assumed spiritually. Space magic is good!!

You're not even trying anymore. Shepards brain was intact, the game said so.

That's not what was being discussed with regards to Javick.

Was this pant life Reaper ****? No.

Again, Shepard wasn't Reaper **** when this happened.

[Wayning_Star]

Heeden wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

And this absolves it how? It still came up with this crap. That's like saying a murderers parents are definitely responsible for his actions.

Well if those parents heavilly indoctrinated the child to pursue a course of action, and the only way to complete it was to commit murder, and the child commited murder; I would definitely be inclined to place the blame at the parents feet and want to help the child rather than murder him in return.

that poster is stuck on 'blaming', not configured for intellectual debate. Convicts on circumstantial/popular evidence. Doesn't understand what "sentient" means either, doesn't care, apparently related to the reaperkid, lol (the reaper cannot commit a crime it's not aware of, it doesn't feel that harvesting humans/organics as a crime at all.)

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

But they didn't. It came up with this all on its own. It's like the parents said, watch out for strangers, then the child grows up and murders all strangers, but not before killing the parents first.

The programming to prevent organic/synthetic conflict came from the Catalyst's creators, he did not come up with it all on his own.

Yeah, a good psychiatric hospital for the rest of his life would be a good place for your kid. I certainly wouldn't be joining forces with him for any reason.

I dunno what happens to the Catalyst, I always assumed it is destroyed when the Reapers get Synthesised as they no longer need an over-mind and its function is complete

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Was Shepards brain liquidised, no.
Javik using space magic to feel what happened, doesn't make the room conscious.
I've yet to see the Asari mind swap with liquid.
He used a neural link up.

The correct answer was space magic, but I would also have accepted genetic memory.

Genetic memory is not individual consciousness.

[Sarevok Synder]

Wayning_Star wrote...



that poster is stuck on 'blaming', not configured for intellectual debate. Convicts on circumstantial/popular evidence. Doesn't understand what "sentient" means either, doesn't care, apparently related to the reaperkid, lol (the reaper cannot commit a crime it's not aware of, it doesn't feel that harvesting humans/organics as a crime at all.)

*YAWN*


Projection.

[Spartas Husky]

Pacifien wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...
" the Short and expidient path may be the simplest, but that doesn't make it the right one"

Which is totally why they should have blown up the mass relays and then researched their own technology, but that's my pro-Destroy argument.

.... little bit over the top. Destroying relays means galaxy wide dark ages. That did not bode well number wise in our planet after the roman empire fell. I dont think it will be any less traumatic in a galaxy as a whole.

However I do agree research and development should have gone into areas previous restricted... EXCEPT the trigger for FTL drives for suicide bombs. They are too powerful. But thats only a dream.

I agree with Liara's dadmom. Research, create  new relays. Love a part of the comics a dude is doing. He made up a part that the council was paying bounties on firms to be able to research on the keepers without disturbing them. Now that is enterprise at its best. Jiggle some coin and let the smartest win.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

You're not even trying anymore. Shepards brain was intact, the game said so.

That's not what was being discussed with regards to Javick.

Was this pant life Reaper ****? No.

Again, Shepard wasn't Reaper **** when this happened.

Medical science says Shepard's brain was far beyond recovery by regular means, after seeing the details even Shep wonders if he is really "him", but Mass Effect has space-magic that allows organics to leave impressions of themselves on non-living matter and it is strongly hinted this is connected to genetic memory. However "space magic" will work for simplicity's sake.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Genetic memory is not individual consciousness.

The nature of consciousness is a complete unknown and may remain so forever due to being a wholly subjective phenomena.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...

The programming to prevent organic/synthetic conflict came from the Catalyst's creators, he did not come up with it all on his own.

I dunno what happens to the Catalyst, I always assumed it is destroyed when the Reapers get Synthesised as they no longer need an over-mind and its function is complete

The step he took was all on his own. Like I said, he moved from watch out for strangers to murdering them.

You've no reason to assume he's destroyed, and the Reapers are still blood money.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...





Medical science says Shepard's brain was far beyond recovery by regular means, after seeing the details even Shep wonders if he is really "him", but Mass Effect has space-magic that allows organics to leave impressions of themselves on non-living matter and it is strongly hinted this is connected to genetic memory. However "space magic" will work for simplicity's sake.

His mind wasn't Reaper goo, simple as that.

[Wayning_Star]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...



brain was frozen mush, all chemical reactions null.DNA genetic memories intact.   Javick was locked in a stasis field, no depreciation there, Asari linked with plant life as a liquid form/essence. Asari linked with Sheppard assumed spiritually. Space magic is good!!

You're not even trying anymore. Shepards brain was intact, the game said so.

That's not what was being discussed with regards to Javick.

Was this pant life Reaper ****? No.

Again, Shepard wasn't Reaper **** when this happened.

intact? no, restored, yes, how, reaper tech. oopseedaisy The plant was reaper controlled, Sheppard destroyed it's root system, freeing the Asari and settlers. I think it was the illusive man who started studying it for indoctrination capabilities, but everyone knows he was indoctrinated, so it was the reapers all along.

[Heeden]

Spartas Husky wrote...

.... little bit over the top. Destroying relays means galaxy wide dark ages. That did not bode well number wise in our planet after the roman empire fell. I dont think it will be any less traumatic in a galaxy as a whole.

To be fair post-Roman Europe also suffered a failure in aggriculture due to global climate change.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...


The nature of consciousness is a complete unknown and may remain so forever due to being a wholly subjective phenomena.

We know its linked to the brain, people with brain injuries huge personality changes. When the brain is destroyed, it's reasonable to expect the consciousness to be destroyed also. There is no brain left with Reaper goo.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

The step he took was all on his own. Like I said, he moved from watch out for strangers to murdering them.

The step he took was according to his programming. Perhaps his programming should have done more to explain why organics should be preserved rather than just saying they should be, but you can't blame the Catalyst for the details of his creation.

You've no reason to assume he's destroyed, and the Reapers are still blood money.

That's true, he may stick around on the Citadel. How are the Reapers money?

[Sarevok Synder]

Wayning_Star wrote...



intact? no, restored, yes, how, reaper tech. oopseedaisy The plant was reaper controlled, Sheppard destroyed it's root system, freeing the Asari and settlers. I think it was the illusive man who started studying it for indoctrination capabilities, but everyone knows he was indoctrinated, so it was the reapers all along.

You're now making it up as you go along. BYE!

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

We know its linked to the brain, people with brain injuries huge personality changes. When the brain is destroyed, it's reasonable to expect the consciousness to be destroyed also. There is no brain left with Reaper goo.

Except Shep was dead long enough that his brain should have been completely unable to function if it wasn't for the intervention of space magic and Reaper tech.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Heeden wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Come on, man. Don't give me that nonsense. If it is not important then it would be symbolic to kill him. There is no reason the squeeze a lemon if you are not using the juice.

I'm not saying they don't use the juice - they quite obviously do - and Shepard's juice may be the tastiest and most full of vitamins, but that does not mean the juice will mind-hack you. If Shepards personality was to affect the minds of Synthesised people they would have differentiated between Paragon and Renegade like they did with Control.

Why are you backing out now? You gave me a list of things you thought were important. I didn't give them, but you believed those reasons made Shepard unique. When I say that I agree and that these are indeed important to add to the mix of the matrix of the new framework then you somehow backout. What a silly conversation. Your paragon/renegade decisions are taken care of in the epilogue and in the story.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:26 .

[Heeden]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Why are you backing out now? You gave me a list of things you thought were important. I didn't give them, but you believed those reasons made Shepard unique. When I say that I agree and that these are indeed important to add to the mix of the matrix of the new framework then you somehow backout. What a silly conversation.

What? I said Shep has many qualities that make him a prime candidate for turning in to Synthesis juice, I just don't see how they relate to mind-control.

[Wayning_Star]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...
" the Short and expidient path may be the simplest, but that doesn't make it the right one"

Which is totally why they should have blown up the mass relays and then researched their own technology, but that's my pro-Destroy argument.

.... little bit over the top. Destroying relays means galaxy wide dark ages. That did not bode well number wise in our planet after the roman empire fell. I dont think it will be any less traumatic in a galaxy as a whole.

However I do agree research and development should have gone into areas previous restricted... EXCEPT the trigger for FTL drives for suicide bombs. They are too powerful. But thats only a dream.

I agree with Liara's dadmom. Research, create  new relays. Love a part of the comics a dude is doing. He made up a part that the council was paying bounties on firms to be able to research on the keepers without disturbing them. Now that is enterprise at its best. Jiggle some coin and let the smartest win.

yeah, I collected all the data from those critters, but the game didn't say much about it other than a tech guy mentioned something about it, but didn't clarify exactly what? But I only found 19 of the 20 keepers to swipe data from..so maybe that's why?

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...

The step he took was according to his programming. Perhaps his programming should have done more to explain why organics should be preserved rather than just saying they should be, but you can't blame the Catalyst for the details of his creation.


That's true, he may stick around on the Citadel. How are the Reapers money?

It's an AI, it can think for itself, it's responsible for its own actions. It made the decisions it made, nobody else.

They are blood money, you're benefiting form the countless trillions murdered to create them by keeping them around.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Heeden wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Why are you backing out now? You gave me a list of things you thought were important. I didn't give them, but you believed those reasons made Shepard unique. When I say that I agree and that these are indeed important to add to the mix of the matrix of the new framework then you somehow backout. What a silly conversation.

What? I said Shep has many qualities that make him a prime candidate for turning in to Synthesis juice, I just don't see how they relate to mind-control.

Then why squeeze the lemon? If it does not have significance then Shepard's death doesn't make sense. It would be for decoration only when nothing was used.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...



Except Shep was dead long enough that his brain should have been completely unable to function if it wasn't for the intervention of space magic and Reaper tech.

He still had a Brain like an inactive hard drive, it wasn't Reaper Goo. There is no evidence to suggest that there is anything left of the consciousnesses of those used to create the Reapers.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

It's an AI, it can think for itself, it's responsible for its own actions. It made the decisions it made, nobody else.

Synthetics can be created to fulfill a purpose, pre-Synthesis they can no more be blamed for fulfilling this purpose than you can blame fire for burning.

They are blood money, you're benefiting form the countless trillions murdered to create them by keeping them around.

I'm not, I regretfully Destroyed them, but if I were to keep them around through Synthesis it would be out or respect for the billions of beings conjoined within them, to give them a chance to take on a new role in the galaxy and perhaps to meet them in the info-scape (or IRL if they develop avatars).