Sarevok Synder wrote...
Again so what, that's how he survived.
Sure they are, individuality and free will are gone, better off completely dead.
Heeden wrote...
Given how long you argued against the space-magical idea, I'd expect more than a "so what" when you admit you were wrong. I at least try to give a "Whoops, sorry..." when I waste someone's time with my confusion.
Unless you choose Synthesis, in which case it's a mystery to explore.
Sarevok Synder wrote...
No chance, I don't consider the horrors and servitude inflicted these beings a "mystery." They are still slaves in Synthesis, they will never be individuals again, just hollow shells of their former selves. It's sick, all the more reason to destroy the Reapers.
I don't get you at all. Legion and EDI (and even Harby to a lesser extent) all had a nature of their own. BW wanted to give them a personality and they did it rather well.Wayning_Star wrote...
we are assuming robots inherently contain a "nature", as in natural, or human/organic trait. It's the question when sentient life actually occures, in either. So reapers don't have a "nature" its just programming. It's the only way they could keep up the pressure on organics for about ever. We, as organics, were illogical, didn't compute, so they refined organics into machines.A logical conclusion and storage of compiled data. The crucible was the organic wrench thrown into that machine. Containing the millions of years of genetic growth of countless species, Sheppard had to decide what we all expect were the correct ripple effect to generate change, if any.AngryFrozenWater wrote...
You are confused by VIs. Those are purpose build.Heeden wrote...
Synthetics can be created to fulfill a purpose, pre-Synthesis they can no more be blamed for fulfilling this purpose than you can blame fire for burning.
No. An AI is an AI. EDI worked fine. The geth worked fine. Legion worked fine. All were perfectly able to reason. And the geth improved after they uploaded reaper code. The reapers' minds are working just fine as well. Sort of. If you forget their violent nature.
Heeden wrote...
Well, just speculate whatever helps you sleep at night and forget how ME tells you being Reaperfied is an ascension (i.e. a transfer to a more desirable state), how post-Synthesis Reapers are able to share their accumulated wisdom and how existing in a purely virtual form will allow you to fulfill all your desires with minimal effort.
Any knowledge the Reapers give in Synthesis, is blood money, gained by the death of trillions.Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:06 .
Sarevok Synder wrote...
Mass effect doesn't tell you that, Starbrat and the Reapers do, of course they are so trustworthy.
What desires their individuality is gone, they have no desires. Even if they had they couldn't carry them out as they no longer have bodies. They are salves, with no chance of freedom, death is their only hope of release.
Heeden wrote...
I bet you whisper that to yourself for hours, head on pillow, eyes tightly shut. Keep saying the words, they might come true (or at least you might start believing them). Concentrate on the sound of your own voice, ignore the laments of untold quadrillions who's final cord of existence was cut by your own hand. Death was their only hope, death was their only hope... Whatever you do, don't imagine an alternate future where you chose Synthesis and they strode forward with us, hand in hand towards a better future. Death was their only hope. (>.<)
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:13 .
Sarevok Synder wrote...
No, I just imagine myself in their position and I've no problem with it. I would chose death before an eternity of servitude and being less than a shadow of my former self every time.
Yes, but these organic minds are uploaded. Either to an AI or a VI. However, Legion is very clear about them being synthetic. Look at this:Heeden wrote...
According to Legion in Mass Effect 2, a Reaper consists of "billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies".
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:06 .
Heeden wrote...
Sarevok Synder wrote...
No, I just imagine myself in their position and I've no problem with it. I would chose death before an eternity of servitude and being less than a shadow of my former self every time.
That's right, forget Synthesis freeing them from servitude and the full, rich experience Shepard had in the Geth consensus.
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:23 .
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yes, but these organic minds are uploaded. Either to an AI or a VI. However, Legion is very clear about them being synthetic. Look at this:Sarevok Synder wrote...
According to Legion in Mass Effect 2, a Reaper consists of "billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies".
Shepard: What did you call Sovereign?
Legion: Nazara. That's what the programs within the reaper called themselves. "Sovereign" was a title given by Saren Arterius. Saren and the heretics believed Nazara to be a "supreme ruler". A sovereign.
Shepard: Sovereign was one ship. You're saying there were multiple programs inside it?
Legion: One ship. Many minds. Like the geth. We study your records. Sovereign told you this on Ilios. "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." A state compelling to the geth. We are a nation, but interdependent. Seperation is our weakness.
Sarevok Synder wrote...
Their individuality is gone, billions of minds stuck in one Reaper form, a hive mind. Can no longer do their own thing, it's all make believe anyway. How can YOU have a rich experience that way? The Geth don't know any different, having other babbling in their heads is normal to them. Shepard didn't have that when he was in the consensus, just Legion was in his head. And if you consider the consensus better than the Outside world, you've issues.
I would absolutely choose death.
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yes, but these organic minds are uploaded. Either to an AI or a VI. However, Legion is very clear about them being synthetic. Look at this:
Shepard: What did you call Sovereign?
Legion: Nazara. That's what the programs within the reaper called themselves. "Sovereign" was a title given by Saren Arterius. Saren and the heretics believed Nazara to be a "supreme ruler". A sovereign.
Shepard: Sovereign was one ship. You're saying there were multiple programs inside it?
Legion: One ship. Many minds. Like the geth. We study your records. Sovereign told you this on Ilios. "We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness." A state compelling to the geth. We are a nation, but interdependent. Seperation is our weakness.
Heeden wrote...
Of course, doing them a favour innit. Not properly alive if they're not like us. Living is all about having arms and legs, impossible to imagine them enjoying living with only simulated arms and legs, or living a life of eternal fulfilling contemplation. Yeah, better off dead. Probably the phantom screams keeping you awake at night are just their way of saying thank-you, previous cycles probably didn't believe in self-preservation anyway so they'd be glad to be killed in cold blood.
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:32 .
Sarevok Synder wrote...
No they're not properly alive compared to what they once were, simple as that. They are ghosts that need to be put to rest. They were already killed in cold blood. No nothing keeps me awake at night, they're better off completely dead. If I were in their position, I would hope somebody had the compassion to finish me.
Heeden wrote...
Yeah, just ghosts. Ghosts who have transcended physical needs but still have the capabillity to interact mentally. Nothing but an ancient source of knowledge and will that in no way would love to have meaning to their existence. Definitely hoping someone kills them rather than liberate them, that's what all prisoners want, right? Maybe not hope though, only properly alive things can hope and they're not properly alive 'cos then I'd be....murdering them? Nope, not alive, just ghosts.
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:42 .
Sarevok Synder wrote...
Again quoting Starbrat, they haven't transcended, they're slaves.
They don't interact, they are a hive mind, only individuals can interact.
They are blood money, not knowledge.
They have no hopes, they are a hive mind.
That's right not alive, not even ghosts. Empty shadows.
Heeden wrote...
Yes, you almost seem sincere now. Sorry you have to die, I've decided your survival is not worth the price of your death so I'll be killing you again :-)
Sarevok Synder wrote...
There is nothing to kill, they died a long time ago, they're Reapers now and the Reapers and Starbrat deserve justice.
Heeden wrote...
Yeah, how dare they perform the function they were built for.
Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:08 .
Because it "wipes out" the organics and synthetics as such. It's not even about the changes being forced or not.Heeden wrote...
His wet-dream of peaceful co-existence between organics and synthetics, using a method that maintains the sanctity of sentient life and gives a platform from which we could achieve a utopic existence? That's bad because...?
Although technically I chose Destroy, but I'm not denying the terrible cost of this decision or the great benefits of the other choices.
Modifié par Uncle Jo, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:55 .
Ghehe. Sorry about that. I'll fix that post.Sarevok Synder wrote...
I don't think that should be addressed to me.
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