982 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

Ultimately the Extended Cut didn't really solve anything. We really don't know enough to say if Synthesis will be Utopia or a Lotus-eating Dystopia. I would never in a million years force it on the Galaxy with the vague knowledge we have, even with the hindsight we get from EDI, but it's still an intriguing debate, and I can see how it appeals to some.

It's still the whole contrived way this choice is grafted onto the story and the completely ridiculous "Space magic" way in which this Synthesis is achieved that kills the ending for me.

[carrmatt91]

i find it funny that the writers said we interpreted synthesis in a way they didn't expect the first time, and now after the EC there's a completely different interpretation that they obviously didn't expect

[KingZayd]

General User wrote...

I wouldn't be too impressed by EDI's opinion of Synthesis. The girl has a new epiphany after every conversation she has with Shepard.

haha excellent point.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Fandango9641 wrote...

The explicit propositions of synthesis are such that EDI's testimony is less than worthless to me. Rolling out the line that "As a galaxy we can all now live the lives we have wished for" is a clear indication that synthesis seeds the moronic mantra of the Reapers into the conscious minds of each and every individual violated by the consequences of that particular choice. Even if one concedes the point that synthesis does not require direct mind control, it's impossible to claim that it doesn't (at the very least) subvert some sense of who these people were before it happened.

As for the whole "We will reclaim the world and the stars" bit - I would humbly suggest that all new naturally evolving organic species (at least those who value the natural freedom of self-determination) start building very big guns.....and quickly!

Exactly. That's very good advice when a race of extremely violent predators has just been upgraded. 

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Exactly. That's very good advice when a race of extremely violent predators has just been upgraded. 

Because they had oh so much trouble wiping out civilizations before right?

[Heeden]

Uncle Jo wrote...
Because it "wipes out" the organics and synthetics as such. It's not even about the changes being forced or not.

In the end you just have hybrids, may they be immortals, enhanced or whatever. As you said utopia is a dream, it implies a perfection that neither organics with their new upgrades nor synthetics, with their a "better comprehension of organics" (for whatever it can mean), do have.

Nothing is wiped out, hybrids are not created by Synthesis. Synthesis allows organics to integrate fully with technology, it doesn't build half-robots or toasters or whatever you imagine. It doesn't force everyone to become cyborgs but it may make the process easier or more desirable.

If they feel, then it can be love and hate, happiness and sadness, hope and despair, altruism or selfishness... These are two sides of the same coin. It makes us who we are. For the better or the worse.

Unless you brainwashed the whole galaxy, conflicts, struggles, wars will rise again.

The brat didn't believe in a future without the Reapers, you as well.

Indeed, this is why Synthesis is not the Disney-utopia people keep saying it is. The nature of the synthetic-organic divide has changed so now we view each others more like equals rather than uppity-tools and an unstable chemical-reaction. This doesn't mean there will no longer be conflict, but it does mean diplomacy will be a more effective tool before (and after) conflict is necessary. It also means the lines will not be straight synthetic/organic but more likely for both sides to feature technological and biological members. The down-side of this is warfare will become more violent due to the technological advancement, I predict warfare in a Synthesised galaxy will be shorter, bloodier and less likely to occur.

Modifié par Heeden, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:48 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Exactly. That's very good advice when a race of extremely violent predators has just been upgraded. 

Because they had oh so much trouble wiping out civilizations before right?

Exactly.

In a way that was the problem. The game doesn't even give me the idea that I won. Marauder Shields was the boss fight. Then I had a pretty annoying conversation in which I had to join the brat in doing all kinds of war crimes.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .

[antares_sublight]

In the end, Synthesis is simply indefensible, for a vast number of reasons. It's also a "winning" ending according to BioWare, but that's their problem.

For me, my problems with Synthesis are the same I've written about so often - the impossibilities of practicality and implementation, even from a science fiction/science fantasy perspective.

The EC tried to help, but in the end Synthesis as presented by BioWare is simply one of the worst SF concepts ever. You can choose it as your favorite or canon ending, but you cannot defend it with anything past "just because I like it", it simply can't stand up.

[Pacifien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Marauder Shields was the boss fight.

You know, I had to do that fight twice during my Insanity run because he won the first time.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Then I had a pretty annoying conversation in which I had to join the brat in doing all kinds of war crimes.

I know, in order to win the game, you have to lose. That is something that only appeals to a certain kind of gamer.

[Pacifien]

antares_sublight wrote...
It's also a "winning" ending according to BioWare, but that's their problem. 

I just don't understand this. It's no one's problem.

I don't like Ender's Game and I don't like Dune. It's not the writer's problem and it's not my problem. I don't like BioShock, but that's also not my problem, nor is it the developer's problem.

But I also don't jump on the "BioWare lied" bandwagon because... I just don't. I don't live and breathe on the words and promises of others for my entertainment.

But this is just a post for me to say I just don't get it. I don't know if there's a reply anyone can write where they can make me understand it, particularly since I went through the whole "George Lucas destroyed my childhood" phase and so I should be able to remember what it feels like.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Marauder Shields was the boss fight.

You know, I had to do that fight twice during my Insanity run because he won the first time.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Then I had a pretty annoying conversation in which I had to join the brat in doing all kinds of war crimes.

I know, in order to win the game, you have to lose. That is something that only appeals to a certain kind of gamer.

This type of gamer is very close to war crimes committed in the last century, because it has still family which cannot cope with the horrors inflicted on them.

[Vigilant111]

Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Marauder Shields was the boss fight.

You know, I had to do that fight twice during my Insanity run because he won the first time.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Then I had a pretty annoying conversation in which I had to join the brat in doing all kinds of war crimes.

I know, in order to win the game, you have to lose. That is something that only appeals to a certain kind of gamer.

Please enlighten us what u lost in synthesis, and pretend none of us destroy supporters made a single peep since march..."yeah right"

Thank you very much

[Cutlass Jack]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Please enlighten us what u lost in synthesis, and pretend none of us destroy supporters made a single peep since march..."yeah right"

Your Life seems to be pretty high on the list. Well to me at least.

[Pacifien]

Vigilant111 wrote...
Please enlighten us what u lost in synthesis, and pretend none of us destroy supporters made a single peep since march..."yeah right"

Thank you very much

Dude, *I* chose Destroy.

I happen to have another Shepard that chose Synthesis. I have reasons for both. My reason for Synthesis has to do with my absolute love for the concept of technological singularities. I'm in the Synthesis thread, so I'm not going into my reasons for why I chose Destroy.

[AngryFrozenWater]

What was the topic again?

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

What was the topic again?

Something about Cookies I think.

[Pacifien]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
What was the topic again?

Something about Cookies I think.

Synthesis Wrex: Harby, I brought you cookies.
Synthesis Harby: Cookies you say? *drops all the materials it was using to build Liara's penthouse*
*Wrex and Harby sit down to eat cookies*
Synthesis Wrex: So do you think other galaxies have cookies?
Synthesis Harby: Let us venture forth, my good friend, and see!
*Harbinger rides off for the nearest galaxy with Wrex riding on his back*

And then they discover an entire cookieless galaxy because the synthetics there already wiped out all the organics and they are sad.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Xandurpein wrote...

Ultimately the Extended Cut didn't really solve anything. We really don't know enough to say if Synthesis will be Utopia or a Lotus-eating Dystopia. I would never in a million years force it on the Galaxy with the vague knowledge we have, even with the hindsight we get from EDI, but it's still an intriguing debate, and I can see how it appeals to some.

It's still the whole contrived way this choice is grafted onto the story and the completely ridiculous "Space magic" way in which this Synthesis is achieved that kills the ending for me.

Yes. Basically I have problems with all the options. There is no liberating end. The brat and the boys are extremely hostile, to the point that it is best to get rid of them, even if that requires yet another war crime.

Synthesis also has some weird side effects. Does it even matter if you cure the genophage? Shouldn't synthesis cure it anyway? If you unite the geth and the quarians then the geth's offer to help rebuild the quarians' homeplanet and immune system would totally be irrelevant. Synthesis and the help of the reapers would fix both anyway. What about the husks? Do they become smart all of a sudden? What do they do if they don't? Standing there in the rain as a monument of the horrors of the past?

*scratches head*

I see synthesis like a submission which serves the reapers' own goal: To stay on top of the food chain, because the game has completely ridiculed its own "inevitable" synthetics threat. It has those silly implications as mentioned in the OP. If there is no mind control then the reapers have to go to war again. After all, they are a race of extremely hostile predators who hunt civilizations. It's why they were created. Every reaper function was build for that purpose. An intergalactic war isn't that far fetched. You can try to lock a predator up, but synthesis, unlike the control option, has no strong control over the reapers. So it is like giving them the key to their prison at the same time. And if synthesis has mind control, which is likely, then how long will it last?

Even if the population wakes up from the Disney-like utopian pipe dream one by one then they cannot win, because synthesis is irreversible.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:54 .

[Tarkus 5]

anorling wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I've wondered about this, and I think that it's pretty much inevitable that the synthesis hybrids will be hostile to extra-galactic organic life.
They believe organics and synthetics alone are chaos, and this belief is vindicated by synthesis.

I can easily see them becoming a green scourge on the rest of the universe, led by the Reapers. Forcibly hybridising all organic life, and killing them off if they can't.

It's a likely scenario

The Reapers only chose to play nice because everyone in the galaxy was synthesised, so they had no reason to keep murdering.
But what is there to say that their original reasoning is gone? 
If they ever were to meet with a organic species from another galaxy unaffected by the green beam the reapers would most likely reboot and start up in to murder-mode again.
Only this time they would be assisted by the former organics and synthetics from the Milky Way.

Or perhaps the the synthesized organics with their synthetic friends now with a greater knowledge and understanding would try to prevent any type of genocidal war of this nature, knowing full well the outcome
and only if necessary defend themselves against a new type of organic or synthetic threat against their
lives or worlds....

This is Mass Effect it is not about the borg in Star Trek. Besides I believe Mr Spock might think synthesis would be a highly logical choice for advancing the cause of reason.

Modifié par Tarkus 5, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:22 .

[Arl Raylen]

I think the theory behind this thread topic is pretty sound. Synthesis only really makes sense as a permanent solution if the Crucible was able to affect the entire universe. Otherwise, these hybrid snynths will just want to spread their perfection to other galaxies (which isn't too far fetched as there are a couple small galaxies that are extremely close to the Milky Way).

Modifié par Arl Raylen, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:43 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Arl Raylen wrote...

I think the theory behind this thread topic is pretty sound. Synthesis only really makes sense as a permanent solution if the Crucible was able to affect the entire universe. Otherwise, these hybrid snynths will just want to spread their perfection to other galaxies (which isn't too far fetched as there are a couple small galaxies that are extremely close to the Milky Way).

Yeah. The one in the OP really exists and is "only" 25,000 light-years away from Sol. So reapers, given enough fuel can reach it in 833 days and 8 hours. Maybe they need bigger ships to take more fuel with them, but hey, they are the reapers, right? Must be doable.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:55 .