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Synthesis - An intergalactic threat?


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#726
AngryFrozenWater

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Tarkus 5 wrote...

anorling wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I've wondered about this, and I think that it's pretty much inevitable that the synthesis hybrids will be hostile to extra-galactic organic life.
They believe organics and synthetics alone are chaos, and this belief is vindicated by synthesis.

I can easily see them becoming a green scourge on the rest of the universe, led by the Reapers. Forcibly hybridising all organic life, and killing them off if they can't.

It's a likely scenario

The Reapers only chose to play nice because everyone in the galaxy was synthesised, so they had no reason to keep murdering.
But what is there to say that their original reasoning is gone? 
If they ever were to meet with a organic species from another galaxy unaffected by the green beam the reapers would most likely reboot and start up in to murder-mode again.
Only this time they would be assisted by the former organics and synthetics from the Milky Way.

Or perhaps the the synthesized organics with their synthetic friends now with a greater knowledge and understanding would try to prevent any type of genocidal war of this nature, knowing full well the outcome
and only if necessary defend themselves against a new type of organic or synthetic threat against their
lives or worlds....

This is Mass Effect it is not about the borg in Star Trek. Besides I believe Mr Spock might think synthesis would be a highly logical choice for advancing the cause of reason.

*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing. Unless you believe that synthesis involves some kind of mind control that changes them to law abinding citizens who help old ladies across the street. The idea of this thread is that this goes hand in hand with the "inevitable" synthetics threat. That rules out old ladies. ;)

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:09 .


#727
Pacifien

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...
*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing.

So you didn't cure the genophage is what you're saying.

Okay, I'm being bad, I know that's not what you're saying.

But you didn't, right?

#728
zambot

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Tarkus 5 wrote...

anorling wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I've wondered about this, and I think that it's pretty much inevitable that the synthesis hybrids will be hostile to extra-galactic organic life.
They believe organics and synthetics alone are chaos, and this belief is vindicated by synthesis.

I can easily see them becoming a green scourge on the rest of the universe, led by the Reapers. Forcibly hybridising all organic life, and killing them off if they can't.

It's a likely scenario

The Reapers only chose to play nice because everyone in the galaxy was synthesised, so they had no reason to keep murdering.
But what is there to say that their original reasoning is gone? 
If they ever were to meet with a organic species from another galaxy unaffected by the green beam the reapers would most likely reboot and start up in to murder-mode again.
Only this time they would be assisted by the former organics and synthetics from the Milky Way.

Or perhaps the the synthesized organics with their synthetic friends now with a greater knowledge and understanding would try to prevent any type of genocidal war of this nature, knowing full well the outcome
and only if necessary defend themselves against a new type of organic or synthetic threat against their
lives or worlds....

This is Mass Effect it is not about the borg in Star Trek. Besides I believe Mr Spock might think synthesis would be a highly logical choice for advancing the cause of reason.

*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing. Unless you believe that synthesis involves some kind of mind control that changes them to law abinding citizens who help old ladies across the street. The idea of this thread is that this goes hand in hand with the "inevitable" synthetics threat. That rules out old ladies. ;)


No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

#729
AngryFrozenWater

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Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing.

So you didn't cure the genophage is what you're saying.

Okay, I'm being bad, I know that's not what you're saying.

But you didn't, right?

No. I did cure it. :)

I mean that (how many are there?) 20K+ reapers are not enough for the entire universe, so they have to multiply.

#730
AngryFrozenWater

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zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Tarkus 5 wrote...

anorling wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I've wondered about this, and I think that it's pretty much inevitable that the synthesis hybrids will be hostile to extra-galactic organic life.
They believe organics and synthetics alone are chaos, and this belief is vindicated by synthesis.

I can easily see them becoming a green scourge on the rest of the universe, led by the Reapers. Forcibly hybridising all organic life, and killing them off if they can't.

It's a likely scenario

The Reapers only chose to play nice because everyone in the galaxy was synthesised, so they had no reason to keep murdering.
But what is there to say that their original reasoning is gone? 
If they ever were to meet with a organic species from another galaxy unaffected by the green beam the reapers would most likely reboot and start up in to murder-mode again.
Only this time they would be assisted by the former organics and synthetics from the Milky Way.

Or perhaps the the synthesized organics with their synthetic friends now with a greater knowledge and understanding would try to prevent any type of genocidal war of this nature, knowing full well the outcome
and only if necessary defend themselves against a new type of organic or synthetic threat against their
lives or worlds....

This is Mass Effect it is not about the borg in Star Trek. Besides I believe Mr Spock might think synthesis would be a highly logical choice for advancing the cause of reason.

*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing. Unless you believe that synthesis involves some kind of mind control that changes them to law abinding citizens who help old ladies across the street. The idea of this thread is that this goes hand in hand with the "inevitable" synthetics threat. That rules out old ladies. ;)

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:59 .


#731
Pacifien

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I mean that (how many are there?) 20K+ reapers are not enough for the entire universe, so they have to multiply.

I don't know, don't you think at some point an advanced race might overcome the desire to reproduce?

No wait, I forgot, you believe they're still stuck with their original programming to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics after Synthesis.

Modifié par Pacifien, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:07 .


#732
77boy84

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Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I mean that (how many are there?) 20K+ reapers are not enough for the entire universe, so they have to multiply.

I don't know, don't you think at some point an advanced race might overcome the desire to reproduce?

No wait, I forgot, you believe they're still stuck with their original programming to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics after Synthesis.


...Why wouldn't they be?

There is no reason to think that the Reapers would get over the need to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics after synthesis, ESPECIALLY when synthesis justifies and proves that the belief in the first place.

#733
AngryFrozenWater

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Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I mean that (how many are there?) 20K+ reapers are not enough for the entire universe, so they have to multiply.

I don't know, don't you think at some point an advanced race might overcome the desire to reproduce?

No wait, I forgot, you believe they're still stuck with their original programming to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics after Synthesis.

I don't believe in "being stuck in their original programming". An AI, and certainly the most advanced ones in this galaxy, can think for themselves. But how did the synthesis "upgrade" effects that?

The idea is that synthesis solves the aggression and everyone lives happily ever after.

And my claim is that the above (living happily ever after) means this would involve some kind of mind control, because the "inevitable" synthetics threat still exists. Not in this galaxy, but in others. That means that, sooner or later the winning synthetics there invade this galaxy. Tech singularity and such. You know the drill. The reapers must act to swarm out now to other galaxies and prevent that from happening to SAVE US ALL *or* they have to wait for the first attack from another galaxy. That would be stupid.

So, in my OP, Wrex notices an organic in the nearest galaxy. What would the reapers do?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:34 .


#734
Wayning_Star

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Tarkus 5 wrote...

anorling wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I've wondered about this, and I think that it's pretty much inevitable that the synthesis hybrids will be hostile to extra-galactic organic life.
They believe organics and synthetics alone are chaos, and this belief is vindicated by synthesis.

I can easily see them becoming a green scourge on the rest of the universe, led by the Reapers. Forcibly hybridising all organic life, and killing them off if they can't.

It's a likely scenario

The Reapers only chose to play nice because everyone in the galaxy was synthesised, so they had no reason to keep murdering.
But what is there to say that their original reasoning is gone? 
If they ever were to meet with a organic species from another galaxy unaffected by the green beam the reapers would most likely reboot and start up in to murder-mode again.
Only this time they would be assisted by the former organics and synthetics from the Milky Way.

Or perhaps the the synthesized organics with their synthetic friends now with a greater knowledge and understanding would try to prevent any type of genocidal war of this nature, knowing full well the outcome
and only if necessary defend themselves against a new type of organic or synthetic threat against their
lives or worlds....

This is Mass Effect it is not about the borg in Star Trek. Besides I believe Mr Spock might think synthesis would be a highly logical choice for advancing the cause of reason.

*Spock voice* Logic suggests that, given the violent nature of the reapers, it is unlikely they'll spread love across the universe. After all, they are specifically designed to reproduce themselves by "ascension through destruction" and the universe is a big place, so they have to multiply. Genocide is their thing. Unless you believe that synthesis involves some kind of mind control that changes them to law abinding citizens who help old ladies across the street. The idea of this thread is that this goes hand in hand with the "inevitable" synthetics threat. That rules out old ladies. ;)


spock would likely just say 'facinating', kirk would probably go bullistic on the reapers and win. Image IPB 

 It makes me laugh when players/user hold synthisis in disdain, I don't necessarily totally advocate that choice, I figured it to be the most economical way to go. I don't believe that the reaperships have a nature, violent or otherwise, as they're not human (we generally tend to associate our own emotions to machines, like cars, computers,video game avatars, it's called transferral.) so the reaperships cannot but happen to simulate human/organic behaviour. As far as wars and decisions, the reapearship did a lot of terrible things, Sheppard took out a whole star system, just to eliminate one relay, so it's a matter of choice for Sheppard, a matter of programming for reapers. They don't hate, they don't care, they don't think, they only 'act'. In a sense, Sheppard had to 'be like that' to accomplish certain tasks, he had the reaper threat to justify it. The reapership don't "justify", the only 'nature' they have is priority directives, if you think of this as human trait, motivated by an emotional stimulie, I think you give the reaperships more credit than they are able to deserve. 
 
Like the windshield wipers on your car knocks off bugs. Your windshield wipers don't long to meld with the bug either, niether does the driver of the car, who only wishes to see the road more clearly. I think that the situation with the reaperkid,as an advance life form of, apparently, pure energy, but with the simulated emotional programming, of a child(that may be why hes a kid avatar?) May have the same problem with life/existence as the geth, but awful power to back up what it seems to want (as it's programs, advanced to near sentience, the crucible may of stimulated something there, as it were designed by organic for a purpose, we don't really know what their motivation was, the synthesis, maybe they were of that ilk, part organic part synthetic.) as many children think they know. It was pretty good at demanding things, chock those up to programming. Many seem to think the kid was there because it was something Sheppard could identify with. I think that enity problematic could go either way.  So in the end run, the MEU would benifit from the exchange of DNA. I don't think it would make or break the races involved, I don't like the idea of forcing it on them either, but I don't want anyone to go extinct because a race of super robots were technically insane, wasting millions of years just harvesting them to replicate themselves.The only benifit there, best case scenerio, is the knowlege bank the reapers obtained.If we destroy them, it's just gone, all those races vanish without a trace, non existant,wasted forgotten, not to mention the more will be added when the reaperkid returns, as t(he)y will unless everyone everywhere shuts off their computers, never touch another mouse or have anything to do with techology in any way.

but...

 We can only be what we are, we'll decide what we think(and/or feel) is best with choices we have, so it's academic. But with/by the sheer order of magnitude, the reaperkid still calls the shots, like it has for millions of years, until someone finally actually changes the cycle. They never really explained how the cycle erupted, as the reaper didn't provide the data to describe the races that they destroyed as their makers. Only that the cycle started because of it. So we're stuck with the MEU that we have.

Combine with synthetic life,

or, become a Sheppardreaperkidship and control it along with the entire MEU,

or, destroy the reaperships/kid and go on until they become again, as the reaperkid warned if we mess around with technology and attempt to improve..our selves. 

(I didn't list the walk away choice as it's counter productive for obvious reasons,nor mention that WE are probably an intergalactic threat, since organics set themselves up for the reaperkids apperance in the MEU ;)
Image IPB

#735
AngryFrozenWater

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@Wayning_Star: You write a lot, but you didn't stay on topic. Read the post above yours and answer that one. ;)

#736
Wayning_Star

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Wayning_Star: You write a lot, but you didn't stay on topic. Read the post above yours and answer that one. ;)


The one about synthesis as a form of mind control? I've posted that anything thats to do with governing species is a form of mind control. I don't think the reaperkid needs to control minds, he/it is(already) in control unless we instruct it/him what to do other than reap out the MEU over and over again. He needs a new groove, as it were.  Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to get into its head, the only way to do that is to take away it's power over organic life. I think it won't settle for anything less. Hes a brilliant, but demanding little... brat? (it wants an identity and theres gots to be more to "life" than reaping advanced sentient life, or life as a tractor..)

#737
AngryFrozenWater

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Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Wayning_Star: You write a lot, but you didn't stay on topic. Read the post above yours and answer that one. ;)


The one about synthesis as a form of mind control? I've posted that anything thats to do with governing species is a form of mind control. I don't think the reaperkid needs to control minds, he/it is(already) in control unless we instruct it/him what to do other than reap out the MEU over and over again. He needs a new groove, as it were.  Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to get into its head, the only way to do that is to take away it's power over organic life. I think it won't settle for anything less. Hes a brilliant, but demanding little... brat? (it wants an identity and theres gots to be more to "life" than reaping advanced sentient life, or life as a tractor..)

So, do the reapers go to that galaxy or not? And why?

#738
zambot

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.


I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)


Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Edit: Actually they'd probably use more space magic....which I guess is what the beam of light essence dispersal system is.

Modifié par zambot, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .


#739
AngryFrozenWater

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zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Would the reapers do that everywhere?

Edit: In addition to the above, obviously, my concern is with that enlightned part. How did they get there all of a sudden? What does it do for free will? Because obviously BW tells us that they live happily ever after. :P

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:12 .


#740
zambot

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Would the reapers do that everywhere?


Use more space magic?  Sure, why not.  Maybe they'd throw in a unicorn too.

AngryFrozenWater wrote... 

Edit: In addition to the above, obviously, my concern is with that enlightned part. How did they get there all of a sudden? What does it do for free will? Because obviously BW tells us that they live happily ever after. :P


How they got enlightenment suddenly is the space magic part of synthesis.  "Hey we want a transhumanist utopia.  Let's use space magic to get there".  Once you accept that space magic actually happened, whatever else you want to happen is plausible.  Would you like there to be free will after the enlightenment?  Yes?  Ok then, the space magic that created enlightenment left free will intact.  Would you like EDI to be able to have babies with joker?  Ok, Space magic!

 

Modifié par zambot, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:15 .


#741
AngryFrozenWater

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zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Would the reapers do that everywhere?

Use more space magic?  Sure, why not.  Maybe they'd throw in a unicorn too.

So you think they swarm out. But why the radical change? The enlightment. Don't they have to reproduce using "ascension through destrucution"? 20K+ reapers cannot cover the entire universe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .


#742
Wayning_Star

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Wayning_Star: You write a lot, but you didn't stay on topic. Read the post above yours and answer that one. ;)


The one about synthesis as a form of mind control? I've posted that anything thats to do with governing species is a form of mind control. I don't think the reaperkid needs to control minds, he/it is(already) in control unless we instruct it/him what to do other than reap out the MEU over and over again. He needs a new groove, as it were.  Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to get into its head, the only way to do that is to take away it's power over organic life. I think it won't settle for anything less. Hes a brilliant, but demanding little... brat? (it wants an identity and theres gots to be more to "life" than reaping advanced sentient life, or life as a tractor..)

So, do the reapers go to that galaxy or not? And why?


I suppose it would be needs based. I don't think that the "reapers" as they were, exist anymore after synthesis. I've explained my opinion on their "nature" as they don't have one, only programming. The reaperkid may have motives, but if he did he'd of just went over there and took what he wanted, but then, he's a machine whit priority programming, not a pirate of the seven seas. The original reapers just did their job as "reapers", once they're communing with organics, priorites are splintered into the resident consensus dictates. I have no idea what the ruling party, if any, have as priorites. It's impossible to know, like the future..only different.

#743
zambot

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Would the reapers do that everywhere?

Use more space magic?  Sure, why not.  Maybe they'd throw in a unicorn too.

So you think they swarm out. But why the radical change? The enlightment. Don't they have to reproduce using "ascension through destrucution"? 20K+ reapers cannot cover the entire universe.


Again, you're talking about space magic here, so pretty much if you can imagine it, it's valid in post space magic utopia.  Why did they change?  They became enlighted through space magic.  Don't the have to reproduce using "ascension through destruction"?  Maybe in their enlightened state they use cloning to reproduce or they choose to not reproduce at all.  Now that they are enlightned they realize they do not need to transform the entire universe.  Or they use space magic to beam essnce to every other galaxy.  Maybe the beam they use looks like a rainbow, or maybe it is just green.  Maybe it is a leprechaun and both green and rainbow together.

#744
Wayning_Star

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zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zambot wrote...

No they are specifically designed to harvest organic and synthetic civilizations before they are wiped out by violence against each other.  With the new "space magic understanding and knowledge" synthesis provides, everyone, including the reapers, realize that violence is not an acceptable means to an end, and everyone makes daisy chains, sings kumbaya, and rebuilds the galaxy.  That is synthesis in a nutshell.

I know exactly what it means. Read the OP again, please. ;)

Ok, I read it again.  I have no idea what societies that are so "enlightened" that violence has been completely wiped out would do when they encountered a society that hasn't yet become so enlightened.  I think it's safe to say they wouldn't violently wipe them out.  My guess is they would try to enlighten them somehow, perhaps by convincing someone else to jump into a beam of light to disperse his essence.

Would the reapers do that everywhere?

Use more space magic?  Sure, why not.  Maybe they'd throw in a unicorn too.

So you think they swarm out. But why the radical change? The enlightment. Don't they have to reproduce using "ascension through destrucution"? 20K+ reapers cannot cover the entire universe.


Again, you're talking about space magic here, so pretty much if you can imagine it, it's valid in post space magic utopia.  Why did they change?  They became enlighted through space magic.  Don't the have to reproduce using "ascension through destruction"?  Maybe in their enlightened state they use cloning to reproduce or they choose to not reproduce at all.  Now that they are enlightned they realize they do not need to transform the entire universe.  Or they use space magic to beam essnce to every other galaxy.  Maybe the beam they use looks like a rainbow, or maybe it is just green.  Maybe it is a leprechaun and both green and rainbow together.


I don't see the utopien or enlightenment angle to the synthesis choice. I figure that everyone will be pretty much the same as they were, but with a new lease on life (of all kinds). I think the only space magic here is that communication is possible with all races. Well, to digress some, I spose the delivery system is a bit sketchy, but the the first TV was pretty strange as well... 

#745
Pacifien

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77boy84 wrote...
...Why wouldn't they be?

There is no reason to think that the Reapers would get over the need to save organics from being wiped out by synthetics after synthesis, ESPECIALLY when synthesis justifies and proves that the belief in the first place.

Except for the fact that the Catalyst said that synthetics would get the ability to understand the way organics do. And one thing Shepard tells the Reapers is that they don't understand.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The idea is that synthesis solves the aggression and everyone lives happily ever after.

 
Oh. Yeah, see, I think I said somewhere in some thread already that I don't believe in that. Ever. In any scenario. I'm a buzzkill that way.

The most I'll give Synthesis is the concept of technological singularity, which does not guarantee utopia. If anyone wants to point me in the direction of an epilogue, I can point them in the direction of Dragon Age. Epilogues Smepilogues. My head canon is best canon.

Edit: In any case, you're talking about war with other galaxies like the Reapers would be the sole reason why war would occur. I see no reason why war wouldn't occur with other galaxies if left to, say, the krogan in their natural state. Or the turians. Or humanity even. I don't even think you need to bring intergalactic battles into the equation because I think war is inevitable amongst themselves even with Synthesis. Hell, the Geth managed a schism amongst themselves and they supposedly work on consensus.

Modifié par Pacifien, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .


#746
zambot

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Wayning_Star wrote...
I don't see the utopien or enlightenment angle to the synthesis choice. I figure that everyone will be pretty much the same as they were, but with a new lease on life (of all kinds). I think the only space magic here is that communication is possible with all races. Well, to digress some, I spose the delivery system is a bit sketchy, but the the first TV was pretty strange as well... 


Yeah, but TV actually makes scientific sense when you describe it.  "Synthetic DNA" and using Shepard's "life essence" and giving machines "understanding of organics" is gibberish.  Then to take this gibberish and say that it means that everyone's dna is changed, and that now gives everyone magical super power that include green eyes is completely outlandish. 

But I tried to suspend my disbelief because I wanted to try to understand what the writers were trying to accomplish here.  Ok, we have this super technology that makes all of the above possible.  I'm going to call it "space magic" because it fits.  This super technology made EDI "feel alive".  It caused eternal peace.  It cured all sickness and granted immortality to everyone.  The reapers have joined the galactic society, and everyone accepts their help.   Both sides understand each other and new impossible things are being discovered.

That sounds an aweful lot like a transhumanist utopia.  All the things we humans fear: war, hunger,  disease, death have been eliminated through this "space magic" technology by augmenting our biologican nature with the synthetic.  Through "understanding" we've eliminated things like violence and greed.  This kind of thing is not new to fiction or even non-fiction if you follow the transhumanist and technicological singularity discussions.

I find it to be utter BS, but again, if I can accept "space magic", then I can pretty much accept anything that follows as a consequence of that.

#747
AngryFrozenWater

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Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@Wayning_Star: You write a lot, but you didn't stay on topic. Read the post above yours and answer that one. ;)

The one about synthesis as a form of mind control? I've posted that anything thats to do with governing species is a form of mind control. I don't think the reaperkid needs to control minds, he/it is(already) in control unless we instruct it/him what to do other than reap out the MEU over and over again. He needs a new groove, as it were.  Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to get into its head, the only way to do that is to take away it's power over organic life. I think it won't settle for anything less. Hes a brilliant, but demanding little... brat? (it wants an identity and theres gots to be more to "life" than reaping advanced sentient life, or life as a tractor..)

So, do the reapers go to that galaxy or not? And why?

I suppose it would be needs based. I don't think that the "reapers" as they were, exist anymore after synthesis. I've explained my opinion on their "nature" as they don't have one, only programming. The reaperkid may have motives, but if he did he'd of just went over there and took what he wanted, but then, he's a machine whit priority programming, not a pirate of the seven seas. The original reapers just did their job as "reapers", once they're communing with organics, priorites are splintered into the resident consensus dictates. I have no idea what the ruling party, if any, have as priorites. It's impossible to know, like the future..only different.

Let me ask you, did you select synthesis?

#748
Wayning_Star

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zambot wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
I don't see the utopien or enlightenment angle to the synthesis choice. I figure that everyone will be pretty much the same as they were, but with a new lease on life (of all kinds). I think the only space magic here is that communication is possible with all races. Well, to digress some, I spose the delivery system is a bit sketchy, but the the first TV was pretty strange as well... 


Yeah, but TV actually makes scientific sense when you describe it.  "Synthetic DNA" and using Shepard's "life essence" and giving machines "understanding of organics" is gibberish.  Then to take this gibberish and say that it means that everyone's dna is changed, and that now gives everyone magical super power that include green eyes is completely outlandish. 

But I tried to suspend my disbelief because I wanted to try to understand what the writers were trying to accomplish here.  Ok, we have this super technology that makes all of the above possible.  I'm going to call it "space magic" because it fits.  This super technology made EDI "feel alive".  It caused eternal peace.  It cured all sickness and granted immortality to everyone.  The reapers have joined the galactic society, and everyone accepts their help.   Both sides understand each other and new impossible things are being discovered.

That sounds an aweful lot like a transhumanist utopia.  All the things we humans fear: war, hunger,  disease, death have been eliminated through this "space magic" technology by augmenting our biologican nature with the synthetic.  Through "understanding" we've eliminated things like violence and greed.  This kind of thing is not new to fiction or even non-fiction if you follow the transhumanist and technicological singularity discussions.

I find it to be utter BS, but again, if I can accept "space magic", then I can pretty much accept anything that follows as a consequence of that.


I know, we all can identify with signposts that relate to our given reality, its a stretch to say that we'll adapt to anything 'instantly' with the help of a green beam from the future, or past in ME1,2,3, as its all from millions of years ago. I think the augumentation doesn't go so far as to completely alter the individual, but just enough to get an insight and communicate fully what they need to understand one another. Tall order, but isn't space magic, we don't really know exactly what happens, we only know that something happened. Heck, if we think of being around a million years from now, we'd be transhuminized something tough..

If you think about it, a transformation of man/machine isn't all that complicated, but we'd never know how it would work in real time, so we imagine it. As far as the delivery system,well, I spose we'll have to rack that one up to 'artistic rendition', like a picture of a http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Black_hole, or a mathamatical explanation of a gravitational singularity...of which I have to use a lot of space magic get a grip on that stuff..Image IPB (but apparently, they do exist for no reason what so ever..

My TV anology is kind of a weak representation of our ability to understand future tech with imaginative tools at hand for what goes on. In the MEU, we can just go plain nuts cause it's sci fi, although I do like it when they utililize at least standing layman principals to describe stuff.

#749
AngryFrozenWater

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zambot wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
I don't see the utopien or enlightenment angle to the synthesis choice. I figure that everyone will be pretty much the same as they were, but with a new lease on life (of all kinds). I think the only space magic here is that communication is possible with all races. Well, to digress some, I spose the delivery system is a bit sketchy, but the the first TV was pretty strange as well... 


Yeah, but TV actually makes scientific sense when you describe it.  "Synthetic DNA" and using Shepard's "life essence" and giving machines "understanding of organics" is gibberish.  Then to take this gibberish and say that it means that everyone's dna is changed, and that now gives everyone magical super power that include green eyes is completely outlandish. 

But I tried to suspend my disbelief because I wanted to try to understand what the writers were trying to accomplish here.  Ok, we have this super technology that makes all of the above possible.  I'm going to call it "space magic" because it fits.  This super technology made EDI "feel alive".  It caused eternal peace.  It cured all sickness and granted immortality to everyone.  The reapers have joined the galactic society, and everyone accepts their help.   Both sides understand each other and new impossible things are being discovered.

That sounds an aweful lot like a transhumanist utopia.  All the things we humans fear: war, hunger,  disease, death have been eliminated through this "space magic" technology by augmenting our biologican nature with the synthetic.  Through "understanding" we've eliminated things like violence and greed.  This kind of thing is not new to fiction or even non-fiction if you follow the transhumanist and technicological singularity discussions.

I find it to be utter BS, but again, if I can accept "space magic", then I can pretty much accept anything that follows as a consequence of that.

So, you could have been fine with any other option?

#750
zambot

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Wayning_Star wrote...

zambot wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
I don't see the utopien or enlightenment angle to the synthesis choice. I figure that everyone will be pretty much the same as they were, but with a new lease on life (of all kinds). I think the only space magic here is that communication is possible with all races. Well, to digress some, I spose the delivery system is a bit sketchy, but the the first TV was pretty strange as well... 


Yeah, but TV actually makes scientific sense when you describe it.  "Synthetic DNA" and using Shepard's "life essence" and giving machines "understanding of organics" is gibberish.  Then to take this gibberish and say that it means that everyone's dna is changed, and that now gives everyone magical super power that include green eyes is completely outlandish. 

But I tried to suspend my disbelief because I wanted to try to understand what the writers were trying to accomplish here.  Ok, we have this super technology that makes all of the above possible.  I'm going to call it "space magic" because it fits.  This super technology made EDI "feel alive".  It caused eternal peace.  It cured all sickness and granted immortality to everyone.  The reapers have joined the galactic society, and everyone accepts their help.   Both sides understand each other and new impossible things are being discovered.

That sounds an aweful lot like a transhumanist utopia.  All the things we humans fear: war, hunger,  disease, death have been eliminated through this "space magic" technology by augmenting our biologican nature with the synthetic.  Through "understanding" we've eliminated things like violence and greed.  This kind of thing is not new to fiction or even non-fiction if you follow the transhumanist and technicological singularity discussions.

I find it to be utter BS, but again, if I can accept "space magic", then I can pretty much accept anything that follows as a consequence of that.


I know, we all can identify with signposts that relate to our given reality, its a stretch to say that we'll adapt to anything 'instantly' with the help of a green beam from the future, or past in ME1,2,3, as its all from millions of years ago. I think the augumentation doesn't go so far as to completely alter the individual, but just enough to get an insight and communicate fully what they need to understand one another. Tall order, but isn't space magic, we don't really know exactly what happens, we only know that something happened. Heck, if we think of being around a million years from now, we'd be transhuminized something tough..

If you think about it, a transformation of man/machine isn't all that complicated, but we'd never know how it would work in real time, so we imagine it. As far as the delivery system,well, I spose we'll have to rack that one up to 'artistic rendition', like a picture of a http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Black_hole, or a mathamatical explanation of a gravitational singularity...of which I have to use a lot of space magic get a grip on that stuff..Image IPB (but apparently, they do exist for no reason what so ever..

My TV anology is kind of a weak representation of our ability to understand future tech with imaginative tools at hand for what goes on. In the MEU, we can just go plain nuts cause it's sci fi, although I do like it when they utililize at least standing layman principals to describe stuff.


I think I see what you're saying.  You're saying that the writers are asking us to imagine something that might make sense a million years from now, and they struggle to convey what they are thinking.  Sure, I can accept that, but that should also be a warning flag to the writers that what they are trying to convey is possibly meaningless.  Aside from the delivery mechanism (which I still call space magic), there is the notion that understanding and communication necessarily leads to peace (which I think you touched on).  I find that less "space magiky" for sure.  Even though I do not agree with that sentiment, I understand the arguments in favor of it.