982 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...



yeah, irrelevent, but plausable, in your 'version' of the MEU. There is no plot link in the game that relates to that regarding synthesis or any other 'choices', as if "What if?" wouldn't equally affect all decisions. We don't know about those other species, we don't know the range of the crucible beam, other than it affects the MEU. So we cannot enterain those ideas presently as they're inefectual regarding the reaper threat "as is". Another flaw is that assumption regarding synthesis as a 'rainbow utopian' what have you. There is nothing, even Edi's closing comments, that infer any utopia will result, only that synthetics and organics have a 'better chance' at co existance, sharing the wealth of knowleges stored within the reaperships.

Your posts are becoming increasingly illegible. We saw the crucible only affect the Milkyway. Yeah we can, the fact the Starbrat failed to take into account the rest of the Universe in its solution, proves it's fallible. So its predictions need not be taken seriously.

like I posted earlier, your argument is based within your own version of events. Irrational. Basic troll baiting. Now you've lowered the bar to basic insults. Kid stuff and way off topiic, promoting dis interest as scientific fact in an imaginary world. We saw it affect the MEU, that is all that's necessary for the game interaction. Any other 'scenerio' is irrelevant. Sorry Boss

[Shaigunjoe]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


Water
Look how long its been around, even if it runs out, it took millions of years. War is bound to happen, but if it happens every million years, its not worth picking synthesis is it.

Water does not last forever, look up entropy and the Entropic death of the Universe, nothing will survive it. All things will eventually come to an end.

The entropic death of the universe is just a theory, right now we know entropy always increases and the universe is expanding, but they may not always be the case.  Our data on the universe is staggeringly small.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

So my scenario of Synthetics crashing the little rainbows and Synthesis party is perfectly plausible. Starbrats "solution" was doomed to failure from the start. That's assuming of course it's even right about its predictions, and considering its "solution" is ill-thought out garbage, I've no reason to take them seriously either.

So what you're saying is, the Catalyst's creators should have allowed the synthetic threat they faced to eliminate all organics so the new fully-synthetic galaxy could prepare for a possible but by no means inevitable invasion from another galaxy?

[Sarevok Synder]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


You failed to recognise what I wrote, I said its been around for a immense ammount of time, if war follows the same path, then we basically have everlasting peace with a few cases of hostility here and then.

That fact it lasts a long time is not the issue. You said it would last forever, I said nothing lasts forever, and it doesn't. The same applies to peace and war, but they don't follow the same path. Natural processes tend to operate on much longer time scales than man made ones.

Shaigunjoe wrote...


The entropic death of the universe is just a theory, right now we know entropy always increases and the universe is expanding, but they may not always be the case. Our data on the universe is staggeringly small.

You clearly don't even know what a scientific theory is. It's a theory of OBSERVED FACTS. It may be wrong, but all current data suggests it isn't.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 07 juillet 2012 - 03:53 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


You failed to recognise what I wrote, I said its been around for a immense ammount of time, if war follows the same path, then we basically have everlasting peace with a few cases of hostility here and then.

That fact it lasts a long time is not the issue. You said it would last forever, I said nothing lasts forever, and it doesn't. The same applies to peace and war, but they don't follow the same path. Natural processes tend to operate on much longer time scales than man made ones.

And you have still to explain how that justifies picking synthesis.

[darkpassenger2342]

you have no idea how many cycles there have been ( just that its alot)  so whether or not it can last forever is not up to you to speculate. this cycle is merely a fraction.
however, you could be so much more.......
theres only one way to END the cycle. synthesis

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:45 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...



So what you're saying is, the Catalyst's creators should have allowed the synthetic threat they faced to eliminate all organics so the new fully-synthetic galaxy could prepare for a possible but by no means inevitable invasion from another galaxy?

No, fight back as best you can, but to spend your existence jumping at shadows is an exercise in futility. If something is truly inevitable, it can't be stopped no matter what is done. If it can, then it isn't inevitable in the first place. Basic logic, lost on Staridiot.

That fact the Creators won, proves it's not inevitable.

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

you have no idea how many cycles there have been ( just that its alot) so whether or not it can last forever is not up to you to speculate. this cycle is merely a fraction.
however, you could be so much more.......
theres only one way to END the cycle. synthesis

What an obtuse view you have. All the "options" end the cycle. and if you had bothered reading the rest of the posts you would see why there is no reason to trust Starbrat, as well as seeing why nobody with a brain would want to merge with it or the Reapers. But since you couldn't be bothered, I can't be bothered with you.

You are clearly one of "those" that I described earlier.

You also clearly have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Entropy and why nothing can last forever. Crawl back under your rock.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 07 juillet 2012 - 04:17 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

And you have still to explain how that justifies picking synthesis.

I'm not trying to justify Synthesis.

[Sarevok Synder]

Wayning_Star wrote...


like I posted earlier, your argument is based within your own version of events. Irrational. Basic troll baiting. Now you've lowered the bar to basic insults. Kid stuff and way off topiic, promoting dis interest as scientific fact in an imaginary world. We saw it affect the MEU, that is all that's necessary for the game interaction. Any other 'scenerio' is irrelevant. Sorry Boss

No, it's basic logic. Starbart didn't take into account nearly enough variables in its solution, so its judgement is highly questionable. So I've no reason to believe its predictions either.

We saw it affect one galaxy, not the universe, which contains hundreds of billions of them.
My pointing out most of your posts are nearly illegible isn't an insult, it's a fact. I can barely make out what you're trying to say.

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

No, fight back as best you can, but to spend your existence jumping at shadows is an exercise in futility. If something is truly inevitable, it can't be stopped no matter what is done. If it can, then it isn't inevitable in the first place. Basic logic, lost on Staridiot.

That fact the Creators won, proves it's not inevitable.

There's no discussion in-game of an extra-galactic invasion being inevitable, that's an assertion made by the OP. The Catalyst does not deal with that matter because it is not why he was created, and his creators did not "win", they were made in to the first Reaper.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Heeden wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

No, fight back as best you can, but to spend your existence jumping at shadows is an exercise in futility. If something is truly inevitable, it can't be stopped no matter what is done. If it can, then it isn't inevitable in the first place. Basic logic, lost on Staridiot.

That fact the Creators won, proves it's not inevitable.

There's no discussion in-game of an extra-galactic invasion being inevitable, that's an assertion made by the OP. The Catalyst does not deal with that matter because it is not why he was created, and his creators did not "win", they were made in to the first Reaper.

There is no fence around the galaxy with a sign that states: "The threat ends here!"

[KingZayd]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


Water
Look how long its been around, even if it runs out, it took millions of years. War is bound to happen, but if it happens every million years, its not worth picking synthesis is it.

Water does not last forever, look up entropy and the Entropic death of the Universe, nothing will survive it. All things will eventually come to an end.

The entropic death of the universe is just a theory, right now we know entropy always increases and the universe is expanding, but they may not always be the case.  Our data on the universe is staggeringly small.

Entropy always increases due to statistics. It's a mathematical rule.

[Wayning_Star]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...


like I posted earlier, your argument is based within your own version of events. Irrational. Basic troll baiting. Now you've lowered the bar to basic insults. Kid stuff and way off topiic, promoting dis interest as scientific fact in an imaginary world. We saw it affect the MEU, that is all that's necessary for the game interaction. Any other 'scenerio' is irrelevant. Sorry Boss

No, it's basic logic. Starbart didn't take into account nearly enough variables in its solution, so its judgement is highly questionable. So I've no reason to believe its predictions either.

We saw it affect one galaxy, not the universe, which contains hundreds of billions of them.
My pointing out most of your posts are nearly illegible isn't an insult, it's a fact. I can barely make out what you're trying to say.

It doesn't really matter, as you're incapable, or more likely, unwilling. Just posting to get that last word in. IF the 'creators won' why did the catalyst and reapers continue, and why didn't they stop the cycle? There is no way you can devine the premise on which the reaperkid decided what would stop the cycle, as the prothiens were the ones who designed the crucible responsible for the choices. The reaperkid was 'instructed' to provide those choices.This ranting about other star systems doesn't include any plot lines associated with synthesis and has no bearing on any known decisions made by anyone.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...



There's no discussion in-game of an extra-galactic invasion being inevitable, that's an assertion made by the OP. The Catalyst does not deal with that matter because it is not why he was created, and his creators did not "win", they were made in to the first Reaper.

No, I'm taking about Starbrats claims of Synthetics wiping out organics being inevitable. The creator beat them, so it wasn't inevitable. Again, if something is inevitable, it can't be prevented, if it can then it isn't inevitable. This is basic logic, and that clown of an AI can't grasp it.

The fact the Catalyst didn't take into account the rest of the Universe only proves how limited it is. All the more reason not to take its "predictions" of Armageddon seriously.

[Heeden]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

There is no fence around the galaxy with a sign that states: "The threat ends here!"

Nor is there the slightest scrap of evidence that a threat exists out there either, but if it did Synthesis would probably give us the best chance of defending against such a threat.

[Sarevok Synder]

Wayning_Star wrote...


It doesn't really matter, as you're incapable, or more likely, unwilling. Just posting to get that last word in. IF the 'creators won' why did the catalyst and reapers continue, and why didn't they stop the cycle? There is no way you can devine the premise on which the reaperkid decided what would stop the cycle, as the prothiens were the ones who designed the crucible responsible for the choices. The reaperkid was 'instructed' to provide those choices.This ranting about other star systems doesn't include any plot lines associated with synthesis and has no bearing on any known decisions made by anyone.

The creators did win, it was created to "prevent" other wars between them and Synthetics.

Why did it continue? That's just it, it had no reason to, other than being a fearful, genocidal maniac.

Yes it does, it proves Starbrat is fallible because it failed to see its solution couldn't work. This is before the crucible, so it doesn't apply.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:26 .

[Heeden]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

No, I'm taking about Starbrats claims of Synthetics wiping out organics being inevitable. The creator beat them, so it wasn't inevitable. Again, if something is inevitable, it can't be prevented, if it can then it isn't inevitable. This is basic logic, and that clown of an AI can't grasp it.

Which creator beat who, what are you talking about?

The fact the Catalyst didn't take into account the rest of the Universe only proves how limited it is. All the more reason not to take its "predictions" of Armageddon seriously.

Are you suggesting that all problems should be expanded to include the entire universe? The Catalyst was created by organics who were worried about the organic-synthetic conflict. If someone had suggested they started thinking about every conceivable threat that may exist in the universe beyond our galaxy they'd have been told not to be so stupid, and to concentrate on the problem in hand.

Could you imagine how badly our war against the Reapers would have failed if somebody had persuaded the commanders that we should also be preparing to guard (or launch a pre-emptive strike) agains possible unknown threats lurking in other galaxies?

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...


Nor is there the slightest scrap of evidence that a threat exists out there either, but if it did Synthesis would probably give us the best chance of defending against such a threat.

No, the Reapers saw to that as well. A 50,000 year limit on advancement and along the line they wanted, so any technology gained through synthesis will be basically the same anyway. A species from outside doesn't have these Reaper imposed handicap, they're likely to have been advancing for hundreds of millions of years. We wouldn't stand a chance.

There also isn't a slightest scrap of evidence that the Starbrats claims are correct, so why do you not believe the Synthetic "threat" can be elsewhere, and just in our Galaxy?

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Heeden wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

There is no fence around the galaxy with a sign that states: "The threat ends here!"

Nor is there the slightest scrap of evidence that a threat exists out there either, but if it did Synthesis would probably give us the best chance of defending against such a threat.

You still will be an ant because whoever won in that other galaxy 500,000,000 years ago is ariving tomorrow.

The brat shoud have known it didn't work.

He kept the civilizations week, max 50K. Due to a flaw in its logic. He is making the same mistake for, erm, 1 billion years?

So if that threat arives tomorrow then we are ants. And what will synthesis do? Zilch. We could have had a strength equal of much older than that threat. The brat is bad news.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:24 .

[Memnon]

Guess I can keep asking this- if the Reapers have freewill and independence, what is to prevent them from declaring war on everyone else and conquering the galaxy? These are immensely powerful war machines wandering around the galaxy here

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...



Which creator beat who, what are you talking about?

Are you suggesting that all problems should be expanded to include the entire universe? The Catalyst was created by organics who were worried about the organic-synthetic conflict. If someone had suggested they started thinking about every conceivable threat that may exist in the universe beyond our galaxy they'd have been told not to be so stupid, and to concentrate on the problem in hand.

Could you imagine how badly our war against the Reapers would have failed if somebody had persuaded the commanders that we should also be preparing to guard (or launch a pre-emptive strike) agains possible unknown threats lurking in other galaxies?

They clearly had a war with Synthetics in the first place, if they didn't why would they have bother creating Starbrat? Sheesh....

We are talking about a solution that cost countless trillions their lives. This requires all variables to be taken into account. If this is impossible, it should never have been acted on. It's "solution" could never work if its "inevitable" that Synthetics will wipe out Organics. Since it could never work, it should never have been acted on.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Stornskar wrote...

Guess I can keep asking this- if the Reapers have freewill and independence, what is to prevent them from declaring war on everyone else and conquering the galaxy? These are immensely powerful war machines wandering around the galaxy here

Yes. That was the whole idea to start this thread.

Well... There is a problem. "We" are not that powerful, because chances are that there are no reapers out there to keep those civilizations small. And the universe is a big place. So the reapers need to at least increase their numbers over there. To reproduce they do those nasty things. But if there is no limitation to free will then a couple of them may try it. After all, the brat already made silly decisions to keep "us" weak. And if it is no utopia then don't expect it to be one.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[Heeden]

@Snyde and Angry

The only conclusion I can draw from your concerns is that the Catalyst's creators were wrong to try to prevent conflict between organics and synthetics. Instead they should have laid down and died so synthetics could fortify our galaxy against the possible threat coming from outside.

I guess you could be right, but clearly at the time they felt differently. Maybe they didn't expect their ideas to end up with the Reaper cycle or maybe they just didn't think extra-galactic threats were a likelihood

They clearly had a war with Synthetics in the first place, if they didn't why would they have bother creating Starbrat? Sheesh....

Their "created" was the Catalyst, and he turned them in to the first Reaper against their wishes.

[Wayning_Star]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...


It doesn't really matter, as you're incapable, or more likely, unwilling. Just posting to get that last word in. IF the 'creators won' why did the catalyst and reapers continue, and why didn't they stop the cycle? There is no way you can devine the premise on which the reaperkid decided what would stop the cycle, as the prothiens were the ones who designed the crucible responsible for the choices. The reaperkid was 'instructed' to provide those choices.This ranting about other star systems doesn't include any plot lines associated with synthesis and has no bearing on any known decisions made by anyone.

The creators did win, it was created to "prevent" other wars between them and Synthetics.

Why did it continue? That's just it, it had no reason too, other than being a fearful, genocidal maniac.

Yes it does, it proves Starbrat is fallible because it failed to see its solution couldn't work. This is before the crucible, so it doesn't apply.

the creators of the reaperkid and ships didn't 'win' per se, they were destroyed and reaped by the reaperkid. The reaperkids programming was to continue with the reaping to prevent chaos, the very thing that the creators didn't want, because they started the chaos when they build the reaperkid. That was the start of the cycle. The reaperkid doesn't need a reason, he has programming to rely on. The reaperkid isn't fully sentient, cannot make 'decisions', only follow protocalls, apparently ending chaos as one of thoes. Your position on this is untenable regarding synthesis, as it's not associatiate with it in any way. Starbrat fallibility is irrelavent. Everyone knows it's flawed as it's stuck in that logic loop ending chaos by creating chaos as we know it. Synthesis is only one choice given to it from the crucible from prothiean technology sheppard invoked in thier meeting. After that it was in the hands of Sheppard to decide from those choices. Not the creators or the reaperkid.

[Sarevok Synder]

Heeden wrote...



Their "created" was the Catalyst, and he turned them in to the first Reaper against their wishes.

And this helps justify its actions how? It still committed mass murder for an imagined threat that its solution wouldn't be successful against in the long run anyway.