982 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

@lx_theo and Fandango9641: If you want to insult each other then please do so in a PM, but do not derail this thread.

[Pacifien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Or does the utopia of synthesis prevents aggression? The reapers' extremely violent behavior didn't prevent it in the past. If the hypothetical synthetics threat is true wouldn't that cause one intergalactic war after another in the future? Soon the reapers fill the universe. All because it is "inevitable"?

Now you're starting to understand why I love the Synthesis ending. Because it's not a utopia.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Pacifien wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Or does the utopia of synthesis prevents aggression? The reapers' extremely violent behavior didn't prevent it in the past. If the hypothetical synthetics threat is true wouldn't that cause one intergalactic war after another in the future? Soon the reapers fill the universe. All because it is "inevitable"?

Now you're starting to understand why I love the Synthesis ending. Because it's not a utopia.

From a game perspective it is better to opt for synthesis or control: There is more chaos in a future ME title. However, a fight against an inevitable synthetics threat or an inevitable synthesis threat looks promising too. I wished we were informed sooner than the last 10 minutes, though.

[lx_theo]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

Modifié par lx_theo, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:27 .

[lx_theo]

Fandango9641 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

Ok, aside from turning everyones eyes green and making them look a bit electron-icky, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added tech =/= Makes them look electronical

That causes it, sure, but we all know that it had a bigger effect in what tools it provides people. Tech can be used as tools in so many ways. Its not specified what abilities they gain from its inclusion.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

If im not completely wrong i think the catalyst is nowhere near this specific.
He says it will allow organics to "fully integrate with synthetic technology", emphasis on allow.
And Synthetics will "gain full understanding of organics", as in emotions and such.

My headcanon would be this:

DNA conveys knowledge. How or what amount we dont know.
Reapers are build out of DNA from a single species. Hence reapers, to some extent, convey the information that these species posessed.

Synthesis alters organic DNA in the ME universe to convey the combined amount of information of every single reaper. The effects of this are kinda metaphysical and completely up to personal interpretaion. The effect shown in the game is the ability of organics to feel "empathy" for synthetics and vice versa.

It is thorough unexplained how this effect was reached on synthetics.
The green glowy eyes and circuit boards are a very laughable attempt at visually displaying something that would need a whole book to explain it. The DNA part however is (imo) sufficiently depicted.

Modifié par Samurai_Smartie, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:45 .

[Helios969]

Something else that has been bothering me about synthesis is a nagging question about what happens if a particularly nasty virus is introduced into the galactic community?  Something that targets the common makeup of this new, ultimate form of existence.  Normally, our genetic diversity allows some to have a natural immunity or at the very least make an individual more likely to survive.  Something like that could result in a mass die-off, or potentially even galactic extinction.

[AngryFrozenWater]

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

That's hard to believe and nothing indicates that this is the case. It added something to synthetics as well, BTW. The changes were designed so that the racial differences wouldn't cause any trouble in the future. So there must be mind control in one way or another that causes utopia. Otherwise the scenario in the OP is inevitable.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:44 .

[lx_theo]

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

If im not completely wrong i think the catalyst is nowhere near this specific.

Well, he said integrating fully with synthetic technology. Considering synthetics are all tech, its safe to say that this gives tech based abilities of some sort. Physical tech was probably the wrong phrase.

[lx_theo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

That's hard to believe and nothing indicates that this is the case. It added something to synthetics as well, BTW. The changes were designed so that the racial differences wouldn't cause any trouble in the future. So there must be mind control in one way or another that causes utopia. Otherwise the scenario in the OP is inevitable.

No, there does not have to be. None of that is HAS to be.

It also didn't actually change synthetics. He literally says it changes organics physically and gives synthetics understanding.
(26:40)

And no, no where does it state that there is a Utopia. All it does is open the floodgates in knowledge and intellectual potential. 

And no, that also doesn't make any of the OP inevitable. I've already decribed quite a number of other easily possible situations that discredit this being inevitable.

[lx_theo]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

If im not completely wrong i think the catalyst is nowhere near this specific.

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

DNA conveys knowledge. How or what amount we dont know.
Reapers are build out of DNA from a single species. Hence reapers, to some extent, convey the information that these species posessed.

Synthesis alters organic DNA in the ME universe to convey the combined amount of information of every single reaper. The effects of this are kinda metaphysical and completely up to personal interpretaion. The effect shown in the game is the ability of organics to feel "empathy" for synthetics and vice versa.

It is thorough unexplained how this effect was reached on synthetics. The green glowy eyes and circuit boards are a very laughable attempt at visually displaying something that would need a whole book to explain it. The DNA part however is (imo) sufficiently depicted.

Thanks for that. As I thought, synthesis fundamentally changes the genetic composition, mind and motivations of each and every advanced life form in the galaxy? Social Darwinism at the touch of a button. Marvelous.

Mind and motivation...? You do realize that the only thing anything it changes is that the changes themselves allow for empathy? Synthesis does not do this itself, but leads to it. No other mental changes beyond academic potential is even mentioned.

[The Angry One]

Gives synthetics WHAT understanding? Why do synthetics need understanding? Why do organics suddenly not need understanding?
The Catalyst is all over the place in it's insane attemps at reasoning, and so is any defence of it's ramblings.
This is on the same level as "the Crucible changed me .... the Crucible is little more than a power source." Self contradictory nonsense.

You can't just backpedal and say organic minds won't be affected at all by this, the Catalyst claims organics cause chaos. Organics do. Yet it's the SYNTHETICS that need to change their mindset? That makes absolutely no sense and you know it.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

If im not completely wrong i think the catalyst is nowhere near this specific.
He says it will allow organics to "fully integrate with synthetic technology", emphasis on allow.
And Synthetics will "gain full understanding of organics", as in emotions and such.

My headcanon would be this:

DNA conveys knowledge. How or what amount we dont know.
Reapers are build out of DNA from a single species. Hence reapers, to some extent, convey the information that these species posessed.

Synthesis alters organic DNA in the ME universe to convey the combined amount of information of every single reaper. The effects of this are kinda metaphysical and completely up to personal interpretaion. The effect shown in the game is the ability of organics to feel "empathy" for synthetics and vice versa.

It is thorough unexplained how this effect was reached on synthetics.
The green glowy eyes and circuit boards are a very laughable attempt at visually displaying something that would need a whole book to explain it. The DNA part however is (imo) sufficiently depicted.

DNA codifies proteins. It´s not an encyclopedia. I also doubt you can get metal from it, so Reapers convey nothing there. It seems their minds is the sum of the people it was made from, but considering their personality and behavior, it´s clear they are no longer the original individuals.

[lx_theo]

The Angry One wrote...

Gives synthetics WHAT understanding? Why do synthetics need understanding? Why do organics suddenly not need understanding?
The Catalyst is all over the place in it's insane attemps at reasoning, and so is any defence of it's ramblings.
This is on the same level as "the Crucible changed me .... the Crucible is little more than a power source." Self contradictory nonsense.

You can't just backpedal and say organic minds won't be affected at all by this, the Catalyst claims organics cause chaos. Organics do. Yet it's the SYNTHETICS that need to change their mindset? That makes absolutely no sense and you know it.

No, it makes sense... But you obviously are committed to rejecting it no matter how much sense it makes, so I won't bother.

What i will say is that if you don't understand it, don't cite it and say you do like you've based all your arguments in here on.

[Vigilant111]

From an objective point of view, the Catalyst is already in the wrong by referring to organics as chaotic, it is quite ignorant, the first person to undergo synthesis should be the Catalyst itself

[The Angry One]

lx_theo wrote...

No, it makes sense... But you obviously are committed to rejecting it no matter how much sense it makes, so I won't bother.

Perhaps you should spend more time explaining why it makes sense and less complaining about my views.

What i will say is that if you don't understand it, don't cite it and say you do like you've based all your arguments in here on.

Alright, now you're heading into the territory that virtually every pro-synthesis supporter goes to.
I will tell you the same thing I tell them. If you have to resort to "you don't understand" then you have lost the argument.

I note by the way that you've evaded ALL of my points.

[lx_theo]

Fandango9641 wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

Added physical tech, just like the Catalyst said.

If im not completely wrong i think the catalyst is nowhere near this specific.

Fandango9641 wrote...

I have a question for theo: aside from turning everyones eyes green, exactly what do you think synthesis did to people?

DNA conveys knowledge. How or what amount we dont know.
Reapers are build out of DNA from a single species. Hence reapers, to some extent, convey the information that these species posessed.

Synthesis alters organic DNA in the ME universe to convey the combined amount of information of every single reaper. The effects of this are kinda metaphysical and completely up to personal interpretaion. The effect shown in the game is the ability of organics to feel "empathy" for synthetics and vice versa.

It is thorough unexplained how this effect was reached on synthetics. The green glowy eyes and circuit boards are a very laughable attempt at visually displaying something that would need a whole book to explain it. The DNA part however is (imo) sufficiently depicted.

Thanks for that. As I thought, synthesis fundamentally changes the genetic composition, mind and motivations of each and every advanced life form in the galaxy? Social Darwinism at the touch of a button. Marvelous.

Mind and motivation...? You do realize that the only thing anything it changes is that the changes themselves allow for empathy? Synthesis does not do this itself, but leads to it. No other mental changes beyond academic potential is even mentioned.

Yes mind and motivation. Are our motivations the same after Casper sneezes over the galaxy Theo? Is being 'tweaked' to empathise with the Reapers and the countless civilisations they murdered  on a flawed premise a good thing? These are not difficult questions Theo but take your time.

Okay, be that patronizing ***hole who happens to say stupid things. I'm sure you;re proud of it.

Its not to emphasize with the Reapers. Its to emphasize more with synthetics in general. I'm sure they were extremely weary in accepted the Reaper's help when they first came with the offer. Empathy enough not to wipe out a species (the point of it) is not enough to suddenly make someone trust one another or have happy go lucky relationships at the point. I'm sure the whole situaton when they came to offer help would be very entetaining to watch.

And of course they are not hard questions. They are actually so painfully obvious that they make no difference. Why you are asking them is beyond me.

If you wanted to ask questions that become relevant, ask these.

How will our motivations and philosophies evolve after the so called sneeze?
Is gaining greater empathy for a form of life a good thing?

They actually have relevance because they ask the question that would effect this topic on hand.

[Subguy614]

This thread has a lot of long words. I'm naught but a humble forumite.

[lx_theo]

The Angry One wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

No, it makes sense... But you obviously are committed to rejecting it no matter how much sense it makes, so I won't bother.

Perhaps you should spend more time explaining why it makes sense and less complaining about my views.

What i will say is that if you don't understand it, don't cite it and say you do like you've based all your arguments in here on.

Alright, now you're heading into the territory that virtually every pro-synthesis supporter goes to.
I will tell you the same thing I tell them. If you have to resort to "you don't understand" then you have lost the argument.

I note by the way that you've evaded ALL of my points.

Considering how many times you've attack synthesis on this site. I'm sure you have been explained it a hundred times over. I know you just don't listen..

And you don't understand. How do I know that? You just said you didn't. And those points you think I "evaded" (I have yet to), I'm sure I just said they were wrong because your deep misunderstanding of the ending led you to some wild assumption no one in their right mind would think legitimate.

[The Angry One]

lx_theo wrote...

Considering how many times you've attack synthesis on this site. I'm sure you have been explained it a hundred times over. I know you just don't listen..

And the posturing continues.

And you don't understand. How do I know that? You just said you didn't. And those points you think I "evaded" (I have yet to), I'm sure I just said they were wrong because your deep misunderstanding of the ending led you to some wild assumption no one in their right mind would think legitimate.

You don'tsay why, and you continue to evade the points I made. I notice you insulting others to.

Either make your point, or be quiet. At this point I will simply declare that you don't understand, and are pretending you do.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:18 .

[KingZayd]

tettenjager wrote...

2. Im going to take your word on that, but still 833 days seems like a long time to go without fuel or discharge, but this is speculation so lets ignore this.

Mass Relay "checkpoints" can be set up along the way.