982 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
Then why do u assume the worse about singularity? It could be a good thing for organics, no?

I don't. I chose Synthesis.

I don't agree with the opinions that it removes free will, makes everyone the same, nor makes the future a utopia.

I agree with you. I thought it was pretty clear in the EC what it would do.

I am in another camp. One that tries to make sense of the same ingame facts, that show radical racial changes, a utopian society, most likely partially a result of Shepard's mix to the stream, in which organics and synthetics are forced against their will to surrender to the reapers and feel good about it. All because synthesis and the hypothetical threat were "inevitable".

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:04 .

[The Angry One]

Rubios wrote...

The catalyst does not want anything, use the investigation options.

The Catalyst has tried synthesis before because it's what it truly wants.
YOU use the investigation options.

[Heeden]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Fans of synthesis keep on insisting that synthesis is not a Disney-like utopian pipe dream and that free will is not compromised by indoctrination or another form of mind control.

If that is true then wouldn't the following be possible?

Infected Wrex: Hey Harby, I've discovered that the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is only 25,000 light-years away from Sol.
Infected Harby: Can't you see I am busy building a penthouse for Liara?
Infected Wrex: But I am bored and it is full of organics.
Infected Harby: Organics you say? Sounds interesting. But it's too far.
Infected Wrex: You travel at 30 light-years a day. That's only 833 days. Must be doable. And I hate babysitting.
Infected Harby: So be it!

Or does the utopia of synthesis prevents aggression? The reapers' extremely violent behavior didn't prevent it in the past. If the hypothetical synthetics threat is true wouldn't that cause one intergalactic war after another in the future? Soon the reapers fill the universe. All because it is "inevitable"?

Perhaps I've missed some lore, where do you get the information on what Harby is like when not shackled to the cyclem, and what did you do to Wrex to make him in to such a douche?

Anyway, I suppose it depends on the kind of galaxy your Shepard managed to build. If he set an example of "violence is cool and we should go looking for new enemies to smite" it is possible the galaxy follows that example and becomes an intergalactic blight, but that possibility exists with Control and Destroy too - possibly moreso with Destroy because Shepard is giving the message that genocide is a suitable answer to your problems.

[Memnon]

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

Also - even if the green-eyed monsters don't leave the galaxy, new stars and new planets will be born, and on them will be born new organic life. What happens when the greenies encounter these 'non enlightened' organics? Do they get assimilated?

[Vigilant111]

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

Also - even if the green-eyed monsters don't leave the galaxy, new stars and new planets will be born, and on them will be born new organic life. What happens when the greenies encounter these 'non enlightened' organics? Do they get assimilated?

Keep enforcing synthesis at every turn, or easily kill the new species off, cos non intelligent life is not life, no?

It is the maintaining of synthesis that is hard work

[Fawx9]

Rubios wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

tettenjager wrote...

True. If all organics where killed then it could not have saved them. very true

But the Catalyst is a computer. It has calculated the best solution (it has tried other and they failed) and this is the reaper solution. Should if had waited to see if all organics would have died, then it whould not have done its job very good huh?

And the fact that you can disagree, excelent, fine, love it! I think that the catalyst concluded thatlike 99.9 % of the time (that just sounds so computery:p ) organics and AI fight to the death. But maybe this cycle is that 0.1 procent, maybe we are different, and this then is props to the destroy ending or the refusal (we have evolved past this conflict or something). This is why imo the catalyst says "you have hope, more then you know".

BUT what if it is right all along?

There are many visions about the ending, and that is great. And there is no vision that is better in comparison to another
These visions and discussions we would'nt have had if they ended it hollywood style. So im glad they didn't

If it is right, then it is something we'll have to face at the right time, without a super AI overlord to make decisions that are ours.

The choice is Shepard's now, that is the whole point of the endings.

1) Destory and Refuse are the only two choices the catalyst doesn't want.

2) Control can be implmented by space brat anytime he felt like it. "Oh maybe I should just blast the idiots that are fighting instead of killing everyone"

3) Synthesis is what he wants the most.

It doesn't matter if shepard is choosing 50% (66% for original) of the choices are stacked in the star brats favour.

The catalyst does not want anything, use the investigation options.

LOL, thats funny

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am in another camp. One that tries to make sense of the same ingame facts, that show radical racial changes, a utopian society, most likely partially a result of Shepard's mix to the stream, in which organics and synthetics are forced against their will to surrender to the reapers and feel good about it.

Its fine that you feel that way, but your end conclusion is not based on those same in game facts.

For example, Its hard to see how we're surrendering  to the Reapers if they're the ones rebuilding our houses. If anything doesn't that argue the reverse? That the machines are working for the organics again?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but if 'surrendering to the reapers' means they do my housework, I'm all for it. Just no husks in French Maid outfits please.

[Wayning_Star]

IF:
you control, you are choosing for everyone/thing for yourself as prime director.

you destroy, you are choosing for most everyone/thing and exempting synthetic life from existence, but are not ending the cycle of destruction from synthetic competition, only removing the reapers/catalyst from the equation, including the citadel.

you synthesize, you are choosing for everyone/thing a common potential, iregardless of their/its consent/opinion.Free will still exists, only as different as the ingredients for society that still exists before synthisis.Hence, the realization that a new society will derive from these changes.

[Vigilant111]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am in another camp. One that tries to make sense of the same ingame facts, that show radical racial changes, a utopian society, most likely partially a result of Shepard's mix to the stream, in which organics and synthetics are forced against their will to surrender to the reapers and feel good about it.

Its fine that you feel that way, but your end conclusion is not based on those same in game facts.

For example, Its hard to see how we're surrendering  to the Reapers if they're the ones rebuilding our houses. If anything doesn't that argue the reverse? That the machines are working for the organics again?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but if 'surrendering to the reapers' means they do my housework, I'm all for it. Just no husks in French Maid outfits please.

Yes yes, we enslave them again, they rebel, and the cycle of violence never ends

[Heeden]

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

I think entities will interact much as they do now with issues being resolved preferably with diplomacy but moving up to physical force if an agreement can't be reached. The considerable boost in knowledge and resources will make conflict less likely and understanding easier to reach, so I imagine combat will be rarer, but there is also the potential for warfare to become much deadlier.

Also - even if the green-eyed monsters don't leave the galaxy, new stars and new planets will be born, and on them will be born new organic life. What happens when the greenies encounter these 'non enlightened' organics? Do they get assimilated?

I assume Shepards life-energy, having been dispersed across the galaxy, will stick around and bond with new organics as they emerge. For new species being able to integrate with technology will be a natural process they discover when their society becomes sophisticated enough, much-like Asari have natural biotic abilities and the Prothean's cycle had the natural ability to magically draw information from their surroundings.

[The Angry One]

Rubios wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

War or Diplomacy (the latter should be easier now).

Synthesis is not an utopia and doesn't aim for the solution to all the problems of the universe, but for the sake of opening threads full of fallacies and all kinds of assumptions some people choose to believe it does.

Except where they imply it does.
Considering you appear to be using a Saren banner while being oblivious to the irony... not sure if serious.

Modifié par The Angry One, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:18 .

[Fawx9]

Rubios wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

War or Diplomacy (the latter should be easier now).

Synthesis is not an utopia and doesn't aim for the solution to all the problems of the universe, but for the sake of opening threads full of fallacies and all kinds of assumptions some people choose to believe it does.

If theres still a chance for war then synthetics still can wipe us out and there's no point to the solution.

[The Angry One]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am in another camp. One that tries to make sense of the same ingame facts, that show radical racial changes, a utopian society, most likely partially a result of Shepard's mix to the stream, in which organics and synthetics are forced against their will to surrender to the reapers and feel good about it.

Its fine that you feel that way, but your end conclusion is not based on those same in game facts.

For example, Its hard to see how we're surrendering  to the Reapers if they're the ones rebuilding our houses. If anything doesn't that argue the reverse? That the machines are working for the organics again?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but if 'surrendering to the reapers' means they do my housework, I'm all for it. Just no husks in French Maid outfits please.

They're rebuilding because we are now them. It is beneficial to restore the infrastructure of their minions.
After all. They built the Citadel and the relays. Do you think constructing useful things for those they consider beneath them is new to them?

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

I think entities will interact much as they do now with issues being resolved preferably with diplomacy but moving up to physical force if an agreement can't be reached. The considerable boost in knowledge and resources will make conflict less likely and understanding easier to reach, so I imagine combat will be rarer, but there is also the potential for warfare to become much deadlier.

I assume Shepards life-energy, having been dispersed across the galaxy, will stick around and bond with new organics as they emerge. For new species being able to integrate with technology will be a natural process they discover when their society becomes sophisticated enough, much-like Asari have natural biotic abilities and the Prothean's cycle had the natural ability to magically draw information from their surroundings.

Bolded text got that right

What if they don't, there could be societies that keep to themselves and does not rely on technology, are u gonna force them too?

Yeah, life energy sticking around...too far fetched, u could have simply said a video tape from Shepard, I think that works too

[AngryFrozenWater]

Heeden wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Fans of synthesis keep on insisting that synthesis is not a Disney-like utopian pipe dream and that free will is not compromised by indoctrination or another form of mind control.

If that is true then wouldn't the following be possible?

Infected Wrex: Hey Harby, I've discovered that the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy is only 25,000 light-years away from Sol.
Infected Harby: Can't you see I am busy building a penthouse for Liara?
Infected Wrex: But I am bored and it is full of organics.
Infected Harby: Organics you say? Sounds interesting. But it's too far.
Infected Wrex: You travel at 30 light-years a day. That's only 833 days. Must be doable. And I hate babysitting.
Infected Harby: So be it!

Or does the utopia of synthesis prevents aggression? The reapers' extremely violent behavior didn't prevent it in the past. If the hypothetical synthetics threat is true wouldn't that cause one intergalactic war after another in the future? Soon the reapers fill the universe. All because it is "inevitable"?

Perhaps I've missed some lore, where do you get the information on what Harby is like when not shackled to the cyclem, and what did you do to Wrex to make him in to such a douche?

Anyway, I suppose it depends on the kind of galaxy your Shepard managed to build. If he set an example of "violence is cool and we should go looking for new enemies to smite" it is possible the galaxy follows that example and becomes an intergalactic blight, but that possibility exists with Control and Destroy too - possibly moreso with Destroy because Shepard is giving the message that genocide is a suitable answer to your problems.

Well... I remember a time when gaming had to do with fun. So, some lighthearted entertainment with a fan of genocide and a victim of genophage together infected by another forced racial mutilation, called synthesis, would break the ice. Sorry you didn't like it.

I like that you agree that synthesis and mind control go hand in hand. After all, "who Shepard is and what Shepard is" are mixed in the synthesis stream.

However, the point is not what Shepard set as an example, the point is that the synthetics threat is inevitable and, according to the brat, so is synthesis. If there is nothing more to synthesize in this galaxy then this inevitability sure raises the question: Are the other galaxies next? After all, there ought to be more in which, no doubt, more evil synthetics and helpless organics exist that need to be protected and synthesized. It has to be that way. It is inevitable.

Would be fun when BW revealed that the reapers actually came from another galaxy.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:28 .

[Cutlass Jack]

The Angry One wrote...

They're rebuilding because we are now them. It is beneficial to restore the infrastructure of their minions.
After all. They built the Citadel and the relays. Do you think constructing useful things for those they consider beneath them is new to them?

Building devices to focus the technological growth of all organic life isn't remotely the same scale as doing someone's plumbing.


(edited for unintentionally sucky tone. my bad.)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:34 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

He never says it.

It says organic life is chaotic.

Which has nothing to do with what you were saying before. And actually...

I don't have to. You're making up reasoning chains that make little sense when the intent of it's dialogue is obvious - organic life is chaotic. Unpredictable by nature. That it can construct synthetic life is but one aspect of that.

The Reaper says organics REPRESENT chaos. Not that they ARE chaos. There's a difference.

you can't handle the fact that deep down you know that synthesis is a vile joke.

It's a little strange to accuse people of insecurities when you have to flat out deny what actually happens in the game to carry on with your anti-synth bashing. Like, "the synthesis ending is... good? - LALALALALA NOT LISTENING!!! THROW OUT BUZZWORDS: HUSK! REAPER! SAREN!"

That's called being a sore-loser. Not me.

If you think that simple concept is convoluted I'm afraid there's nothing I can do to help you understand a thing.

Simple!? You make so many twists and turns to reach your conclusion that I'm surprised you're not dizzy.

Then allow me to untangle these "twists" (a whopping two of them).

> Organic advancement creates synthetics.
> Organic-synthetic conflict/war ensues inevitably.
> Endless conflict/war as a result of natural organic advancement = chaos.

Do I need to dumb it down any further?

I have already demonstrated why, repeatedly. Can hybrids survive in as many hostile enviroments without aid? No. Will a pure synthetic have more computing power than a hybrid? Always. Etc. etc.

You have no proof. And, you're wrong. Several types of organics can inhabit hostile environments easily: krogan, rachni, vorcha...

And, machines really can't withstand extreme temperatures all that well either. Read the warnings on your manual next time you buy a laptop if you don't believe me.

Do you want to place bets on wrestling match between hybrid James Vega and a purely synthetic Geth Prime?
I'm betting on the Geth Prime.

LOL. Dirge Ironpec vs. a synthetic three times his size (at least). Yeah, that's not a lopsided wager at all.

How about Liara vs. a LOKI Mech?

lol no I didn't. Nice try.

You said so repeatedly just a month ago. "For our own good". As I recall.

I see you have a habit of interpreting things wildly out of context. But no, what you alledge of me is completely incorrect.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:27 .

[UniqueNickname]

The Angry One wrote...

One of the problems with a "perfect" society is that they see no reason why everyone else shouldn't join in and be as perfect as they are.

This is the whole point of the Borg in Star Trek. To the Borg, their existence is a perfect utopia, therefore everyone else in the galaxy is missing out, and must join whether they like it or not to improve their lives.

Synthesis carries these undertones. How long before this perfect society sees that everyone in the universe needs to share the perfection of living as they do, in harmony with the Reapers?

"we are the Borg" this is exactly what I felt when I saw synthesis ending. 

As a result of Synthesis, Reapers and "upgraded" humans (Turians, Salarians, Krogans etc.) would actually agree (on their free will) it will be best to force their own perfect coexistence to other purely organic or synthetic races. Reapers won't be bad ones anymore.

[Carlthestrange]

"We slaughter our enemies and sacrifice all our allies. We'll keep killing until there is nothing left but to destroy ourselves. It will never be enough. " - Alucard, Hellsing Manga/anime.

Seems to relate a lot to the ending.

[mauro2222]

Rubios wrote...

There is no synthetics anymore, period.

And even if there were it wouldn't be a problem as we now surpass them in every possible way.

I thought we were supposed to be equal. Equal forces destroy each other.

[Fawx9]

Rubios wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

I've been asking this since the beginning - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?

War or Diplomacy (the latter should be easier now).

Synthesis is not an utopia and doesn't aim for the solution to all the problems of the universe, but for the sake of opening threads full of fallacies and all kinds of assumptions some people choose to believe it does.

If theres still a chance for war then synthetics still can wipe us out and there's no point to the solution.

There is no synthetics anymore, period.

And even if there were it wouldn't be a problem as we now surpass them in every possible way.

Uhh synthetics can still be made, so why can't they start a war exactly?

[Chris Priestly]

Ok, knock off the bickering and passive agressive insults or the thread will be closed and people who have been warned before will be banned.