272 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's nothing of the sort.
At most it proves that the Reverend mother in question doesn't like apostates - and she has every reason not to.

It proves what I said it proves especially since WoG (yes DG) has confirmed that Grey Warden Mages are not apostates and are completely independant from the Chantry.

It proves nothing. Especially not what you said.
And "not apostates" acording to whom? Sicne when does that mean the revered Mother must like you? Heck, half hte country hated the Grey Wardens.

And also a far bigger death toll and worse lives for everyone.
Whoopdy doo.

Evidence for this might be nice.  We know from the Codex Entry: History of the Circle, that the circles were not established to keep anyone safe.  They were established to cement the Chantry's monopoly on magic and to break what was in effect a magical worker's strike.  Ambrosia II had to be talked OUT of declaring an exalted march on her own cathedral and killing all mages.  This shows how 'positively' mages are regarded by the Chantry.

-Polaris

As I said before, you know nothing. You extrapolate. You infer.
History of the Circle does not prove mages are not a problem at all. It doe not prove that circles didn't make the land safer.

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...
You would always conclude that Templars are always right and the circle is the best thing since sliced bread no matter what evidence was presented to the contrary.

-Polaris

And you would always conclude that the mages are always right and circles are the wrost thing ever no matter what evidence presented itself to the contrary.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Death wrote...

It's hard to feel sorry for mages, especially when forced in a corner, they turn to blood mage instead of remaining innocent within incarceration or dying with honor. Maybe mages can take lessons from gandhi who practiced "non-violent civil disobedience". With their posthumous injustice becoming severe, many non-mages will be force to take notice. Many then will question the humanity of Templar activities & the reasoning of the chantry.

Blood magic isn't evil. Since templars can nullify magic ability, it's the only school of magic that can protect them.

Furthermore, why do people keep mentioning Gandhi when mages are brought up? You think WWII would have ended with noviolence? You think Andraste and Shartan would have freed the slaves through nonviolence? It's a matter of freedom and survival. When templars have "domination over mages by divine right," writing a strongly worded letter isn't going to cut it.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You seem to think that the Chantry is responsible for the hate, but it's more probable the hate is simply natural.
Culture/society and religion exist in a complex relationship with one influencing the other.

The Tevinter mages started this entire problem by destroying elven society and becoming the catalyst for the prophet Andraste's actions, and in turn the Andrastian religion. Her followers - who created The Chantry - spun the lie that it was mages who created darkspawn, despite dwarves seeing genlocks before that happened, and blaming what the Imperium did on mages who had nothing to do with that war. They used lies and propoganda to encourage civlians to support their wishes. But yes, I do agree that their fear of mages is justified, but it has been turned into hate by the Chantry; there's no denying that.

Zetheria Tabris said...

If they pass, allow them to leave the tower if they want to.

On short trips? Sure. Permanent? No.

Why not, if they're given housing on Circle property, and they've passed their Harrowing? The reason why mages are locked up is so they can't become abominations and hurt people. Lore says that when a mage passes their Harrowing, it's highly unlikely for them to become possessed. And Templars could check on them regularly.

Zetheria Tabris said...

Allow them to have a family if that is their desire.

Questionable. While understandable, there is great danger in that - for both the parents and the child. And everyone else.

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it seems like the same danger the said parents had when their magic was revealed, and if so it would be handled accordingly. And there's a chance that the child won't even be a mage.

Modifié par Zetheria Tabris, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:56 .

[Zetheria Tabris]

Sorry, double post.

Modifié par Zetheria Tabris, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:55 .

[IanPolaris]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You would always conclude that Templars are always right and the circle is the best thing since sliced bread no matter what evidence was presented to the contrary.

-Polaris

And you would always conclude that the mages are always right and circles are the wrost thing ever no matter what evidence presented itself to the contrary.

Actually I wouldn't.  I have been plenty critical of some things and unlike what you may think, I have always held that mages should be monitored and required to undergo basic education.  I also said that the book should be thrown at mage criminals, and that there needs to be a police-order of some sort (ideally run by the crown I think) that incorporates both mages and templar-like warriors to police and regulate magic (and deal with the inevitable mage criminals).

That's not "let mages to what they want" that some have claimed.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's nothing of the sort.
At most it proves that the Reverend mother in question doesn't like apostates - and she has every reason not to.

It proves what I said it proves especially since WoG (yes DG) has confirmed that Grey Warden Mages are not apostates and are completely independant from the Chantry.

It proves nothing. Especially not what you said.
And "not apostates" acording to whom? Sicne when does that mean the revered Mother must like you? Heck, half hte country hated the Grey Wardens.

The Divines have RULED that Grey Warden Mages are not subject to Chantry oversight.  A Revered Mother is bound by that.  In short a Grey Warden Mage is not an apostate by Chantry Law.

And also a far bigger death toll and worse lives for everyone.
Whoopdy doo.

Evidence for this might be nice.  We know from the Codex Entry: History of the Circle, that the circles were not established to keep anyone safe.  They were established to cement the Chantry's monopoly on magic and to break what was in effect a magical worker's strike.  Ambrosia II had to be talked OUT of declaring an exalted march on her own cathedral and killing all mages.  This shows how 'positively' mages are regarded by the Chantry.

-Polaris

As I said before, you know nothing. You extrapolate. You infer.
History of the Circle does not prove mages are not a problem at all. It doe not prove that circles didn't make the land safer.

If you are going to lock away an entire group of people for no crime, then you had BETTER PROVE that it is really necessary.  You haven't come close.

BTW, I am still waiting for the unabridged convo you had with DG.  Either post it, or stop claiming to post in his name.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[Darth Death]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed evil.

Since templars can nullify magic ability, it's the only school of magic that can protect them.

 Evening out the playing field you say? Templars are at a disadvantage against blood magic since they're susceptible to body possession by abominations. Blood magic is not to be taken lightly.  
 

Furthermore, why do people keep mentioning Gandhi when mages are brought up? You think WWII would have ended with noviolence? You think Andraste and Shartan would have freed the slaves through nonviolence? It's a matter of freedom and survival. When templars have "domination over mages by divine right," writing a strongly worded letter isn't going to cut it.

LOL. Is Gandhi always mentioned when the topic of mages are concerned? I didn't know that, but honestly you'd be surprised how far individuals have come by peaceful protest. The goal is to win the hearts of neutral parties, enemy allies, & other bystanders to wake up & help make a difference. Once you have the general peoples sympathies, they'll go the extra mile to see proper justice served to those who received the antithesis. A revolution (that's usually created by a lot of bloodshed) may not be needed if significant amount of pressure is applied to the oppressor or chantry. Who knows, they may reconsider their previous transactions with penitential dignity. War should always be the very last resort while resolving conflict, since during such a time the value of human life is devalued.

[Fallstar]

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed very evil.

There are multiple potential sources of blood magic. The magisters could have entered the fade with a vast quantity of lyrium if needed. It's just that blood was more readily available. (In fact I think the spell was powered by both blood and lyrium) Blood magic is just another school of magic, except it doesn't rely on the strength of one's connection to the fade, blood rather than mana is the resource. Blood magic can be used for good or evil just like normal magic, or any weapon. Blame the person wielding the weapon, not the weapon itself. 

[Darth Death]

DuskWarden wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed very evil.

There are multiple potential sources of blood magic. The magisters could have entered the fade with a vast quantity of lyrium if needed. It's just that blood was more readily available. (In fact I think the spell was powered by both blood and lyrium) Blood magic is just another school of magic, except it doesn't rely on the strength of one's connection to the fade, blood rather than mana is the resource. Blood magic can be used for good or evil just like normal magic, or any weapon. Blame the person wielding the weapon, not the weapon itself. 

I don't know a time when blood magic was used for any sort of good. In fact in its nature, blood magic is used to control others which is consider a wrongful act by the chantry. "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." 

[IanPolaris]

Darth Death wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed very evil.

There are multiple potential sources of blood magic. The magisters could have entered the fade with a vast quantity of lyrium if needed. It's just that blood was more readily available. (In fact I think the spell was powered by both blood and lyrium) Blood magic is just another school of magic, except it doesn't rely on the strength of one's connection to the fade, blood rather than mana is the resource. Blood magic can be used for good or evil just like normal magic, or any weapon. Blame the person wielding the weapon, not the weapon itself. 

I don't know a time when blood magic was used for any sort of good. In fact in its nature, blood magic is used to control others which is consider a wrongful act by the chantry. "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." 

The Litany of Adralla is bloodmagic.  So is the Grey Warden joining and phylacteries (which do have a place in regulating magic).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed evil.

Eh, no.  Bloodmagic doesn't have to be taught be demons, and bloodmagic is simply the use of life energy instead of mana to power spells.  Period.  It's a tool and neither good nor evil.  Just because an evil person makes a sword does not mean the sword is evil.  Same here.

Since templars can nullify magic ability, it's the only school of magic that can protect them.

 Evening out the playing field you say? Templars are at a disadvantage against blood magic since they're susceptible to body possession by abominations. Blood magic is not to be taken lightly.  

Templars still can drain mana and disrupt spells.  What they can't do is shut down a bloodmage.  That does indeed even the playing field.   Also it's HARD to possess anyone.  It requires consent (this is per WoG btw now) although that consent can be gained by trickery or simply by the long process of wearing down the victim's will to nothing (see Broken Circle). 

Furthermore, why do people keep mentioning Gandhi when mages are brought up? You think WWII would have ended with noviolence? You think Andraste and Shartan would have freed the slaves through nonviolence? It's a matter of freedom and survival. When templars have "domination over mages by divine right," writing a strongly worded letter isn't going to cut it.

LOL. Is Gandhi always mentioned when the topic of mages are concerned? I didn't know that, but honestly you'd be surprised how far individuals have come by peaceful protest. The goal is to win the hearts of neutral parties, enemy allies, & other bystanders to wake up & help make a difference. Once you have the general peoples sympathies, they'll go the extra mile to see proper justice served to those who received the antithesis. A revolution (that's usually created by a lot of bloodshed) may not be needed if significant amount of pressure is applied to the oppressor or chantry. Who knows, they may reconsider their previous transactions with penitential dignity. War should always be the very last resort while resolving conflict, since during such a time the value of human life is devalued.

The only reason that Ghandi's tactics worked is because the British had a strong sense of shame.  Had India been a German colony during the same period of time, the only thing Ghandi would have accomplished is a lot of dead Indians.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil.

 Ehhh... The magisters of the Tevinter who possessed the power of blood magic enter the Golden city of the Maker, returning as the very first darkspawn. Not cool. Also blood magic can be taught by demons, which are evil. So imo blood magic is indeed evil.

Grey Wardens are created through blood magic. The phylacteries are blood magic. Grey Warden mages have used blood magic to defeat the darkspawn. Finn used blood magic to locate an Eluvian. Merrill used blood nagic to cleanse a shard of darkspawn corruotion. Blood magic is not evil.

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Since templars can nullify magic ability, it's the only school of magic that can protect them.

Evening out the playing field you say? Templars are at a disadvantage against blood magic since they're susceptible to body possession by abominations. Blood magic is not to be taken lightly.

I'm sure the mages who don't want to get raped, tortured, made tranquil, or killed take it very seriously.

Darth Death wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Furthermore, why do people keep mentioning Gandhi when mages are brought up? You think WWII would have ended with noviolence? You think Andraste and Shartan would have freed the slaves through nonviolence? It's a matter of freedom and survival. When templars have "domination over mages by divine right," writing a strongly worded letter isn't going to cut it.

LOL. Is Gandhi always mentioned when the topic of mages are concerned? I didn't know that, but honestly you'd be surprised how far individuals have come by peaceful protest. The goal is to win the hearts of neutral parties, enemy allies, & other bystanders to wake up & help make a difference. Once you have the general peoples sympathies, they'll go the extra mile to see proper justice served to those who received the antithesis. A revolution (that's usually created by a lot of bloodshed) may not be needed if significant amount of pressure is applied to the oppressor or chantry. Who knows, they may reconsider their previous transactions with penitential dignity. War should always be the very last resort while resolving conflict, since during such a time the value of human life is devalued.

As Bioware's Michael Hamilton said about the Chantey controlled Circles: what dictatorship was overturned by asking politely?

[GavrielKay]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
As I said before, you know nothing. You extrapolate. You infer.
History of the Circle does not prove mages are not a problem at all. It doe not prove that circles didn't make the land safer.

It proves that the idea that mages can't be trusted at all ever but must be kept under lock and key and watched over by religious zealots is an idea that is newer than Andraste and the defeat of the Tevinter Empire.  It refutes the idea that the Chantry was forced into locking away the mages because there was no other way to protect people.  It puts the burden of proof on the people who want the oppression to continue to prove that it is better.

[Darth Death]

I'm lazy.... So I'm not going to reply to every sentence that responded to my comment, but I'd like to address certain points:

1. It's evident to me (LobselVith8 & IanPolaris) that we both share opposing perspectives regarding the morality of blood magic. I respect your point of view, but I don't necessarily agree with it. A shame the Dragon Age story doesn't (in anyway) share your point of view. If anything, blood magic is presented to the player almost like a cautionary tale. Hmmmm I wonder why? (If you're bemuse by the "cautionary tale" part, I'm sorry, but you may want to replay DAO & DA2 again.)

2. Guns & swords are associated with murder & killing. Killing isn't evil, however murder is. Blood magic is associated with demons, corruption, & manipulation. Doesn't matter what your intentions are (even if good), the end result will always lead to evil since the constant involvement of demons (which are evil).

3. IanPolaris said: "Eh, no. Bloodmagic doesn't have to be taught be demons..." That doesn't change the fact that demons still teach blood magic.

As for the rest, there wasn't anything compelling that made me want to address the counter arguments. Merely my opinion.

Modifié par Darth Death, 14 juillet 2012 - 03:38 .

[IanPolaris]

Darth Death wrote...

I'm lazy.... So I'm not going to reply to every sentence that responded to my comment, but I'd like to address certain points:

1. It's evident to me (LobselVith8 & IanPolaris) that we both share opposing perspectives regarding the morality of blood magic. I respect your point of view, but I don't necessarily agree with it. A shame the Dragon Age story doesn't (in anyway) share your point of view. If anything, blood magic is presented to the player almost like a cautionary tale. Hmmmm I wonder why? (If you're bemuse by the "cautionary tale" part, I'm sorry, but you may want to replay DAO & DA2 again.)

Not really.  You can be a bloodmage in either game (and expensions and DLCs) with absolutely no corruption and no ill effects.  Furthermore it's not just PC exclusion either.  Merrill is about the furthest thing from a corrupt mage as you are likely to find, but she is a bloodmage.  Jowan was stupid but not corrupt either.  Futhermore if you look  at the history of blood magic, it wasn't considered a seperate school for a very long time.  For a long time it was merely another way to cast magic when you didn't have enough fatigue/lyrium to power the ritual.

While blood magic does seem to be riskier and more inherently dangerous than normal magic, that doesn't make it evil.  It does mean that it needs to be carefully regulated and restricted to a few trusted mages.  I see nothing in the Dragon Age universe that in of itself makes the case for blood magic being intrinsically evil regardless of what many (esp in the Chantry) would like to believe.

2. Guns & swords are associated with murder & killing. Killing isn't evil, however murder is. Blood magic is associated with demons, corruption, & manipulation. Doesn't matter what your intentions are (even if good), the end result will always lead to evil since the constant involvement of demons (which are evil).

Blood magic is associated with using blood to support and power your magic.  Nothing more.  Can bloodmagic be abused in the way you mention?  Sure.  Swords can be used to murder people too.

3. IanPolaris said: "Eh, no. Bloodmagic doesn't have to be taught be demons..." That doesn't change the fact that demons still teach blood magic.

As for the rest, there wasn't anything compelling that made me want to address the counter arguments. Merely my opinion.

Demons can teach any sort of magic (including Spirit Healer magic).   Demons have a litany of otherwise long forgotten knowledge and lore that they are willing to share....for a price.  That price is almost never worth it, and one should either avoid dealing with demons altogether (the preferred option) or carefully count how many fingers and toes (and souls) you have afterwords, but you CAN negotiate with a demon and come out ahead.  The Warden can do it explicitly in DAO.  Of course it is emphatically not recommended.....

-Polaris 

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Go take a look at cases such as Guantanamo and tell me in the face that that doesn't happen. And if it happens here, today, then it's 100 times more likely to happen in TheDas. The problem is rooted not the in the templars or the Chantry, but in the basic human nature and limits of the age and society.

So you think it helps to have more rather than fewer such systems?

Did I say that? Nope.

I said there are no perfect systems and never will be. Especially in Thedas.
Replace templars with mage-version of templars under mage control AND S*** WILL STILL HAPPEN.

It can't be an exact copy. Fundamentally, the templars cannot have power over the mages except explicitly to enforce the law; there can't be constant surveillance/micromanagement of the kind we have now, because while the religious bigotry would be lesser, the general prison guard corruption would seep through. Equalizing relations seems to be the best way to lessen this tendency.

[Lotion Soronarr]

GavrielKay wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
As I said before, you know nothing. You extrapolate. You infer.
History of the Circle does not prove mages are not a problem at all. It doe not prove that circles didn't make the land safer.

It proves that the idea that mages can't be trusted at all ever but must be kept under lock and key and watched over by religious zealots is an idea that is newer than Andraste and the defeat of the Tevinter Empire.  It refutes the idea that the Chantry was forced into locking away the mages because there was no other way to protect people.  It puts the burden of proof on the people who want the oppression to continue to prove that it is better.

And I never claimed the Chantry was forced to do anything. Again, you infer.
It doens't prove anything.
Why where the circels established whne they were - a billion reasons. The same question can be asked for anything.
Maybe no one thought of it untill then. Maybe no one expected the idea to work.

And common sense dictates that people are safer with the Circles in place. Localized danger is ALWAYS preferable to widespread.The burden of proof is on those who want ot challenge this common sense.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I said there are no perfect systems and never will be. Especially in Thedas.
Replace templars with mage-version of templars under mage control AND S*** WILL STILL HAPPEN.

It can't be an exact copy. Fundamentally, the templars cannot have power over the mages except explicitly to enforce the law; there can't be constant surveillance/micromanagement of the kind we have now, because while the religious bigotry would be lesser, the general prison guard corruption would seep through. Equalizing relations seems to be the best way to lessen this tendency.

The problem with any system is exactly that - power. The more power you take away from those in the field, the less efficient it becomes. Any system is basicly a series of delicate balances of variosu aspectes, and no matter how hard you balance there will always be holes....regretfully.
Unfortunatley TheDas (and Especially kirkwall) is even a bigger mess than our modern systems, that are still rife with corruption and inneficiencies.

Bottom point - the problem with the circles are a product of circumstances and the setting/culture/society/technology in question.

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...
The Divines have RULED that Grey Warden Mages are not subject to Chantry oversight.  A Revered Mother is bound by that.  In short a Grey Warden Mage is not an apostate by Chantry Law.

That still doesn't mean nothing. A Grey Warden mage is not subject to the Circles. That is it.
Apostate is merely a title.. a name. Grey Warden or not, people don't have to like you.

If you are going to lock away an entire group of people for no crime, then you had BETTER PROVE that it is really necessary.  You haven't come close.

I have. You just don't want to listen.
I have clearly laid out logistical and practical problems that come with mages not being confined.
It should be obvious - even to a retard - that policing and preventing disaster in a wide area, with slow communication, limited manpower and little oversight is a nightmare.

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You would always conclude that Templars are always right and the circle is the best thing since sliced bread no matter what evidence was presented to the contrary.

-Polaris

And you would always conclude that the mages are always right and circles are the wrost thing ever no matter what evidence presented itself to the contrary.

Actually I wouldn't.  I have been plenty critical of some things and unlike what you may think, I have always held that mages should be monitored and required to undergo basic education.  I also said that the book should be thrown at mage criminals, and that there needs to be a police-order of some sort (ideally run by the crown I think) that incorporates both mages and templar-like warriors to police and regulate magic (and deal with the inevitable mage criminals).

That's not "let mages to what they want" that some have claimed.
-Polaris

Actually you would. You want mages to roam free and Cahntry circles dissolved. That's exactly what mages want.

[Xilizhra]

The problem with any system is exactly that - power. The more power you take away from those in the field, the less efficient it becomes. Any system is basicly a series of delicate balances of variosu aspectes, and no matter how hard you balance there will always be holes....regretfully.
Unfortunatley TheDas (and Especially kirkwall) is even a bigger mess than our modern systems, that are still rife with corruption and inneficiencies.

Bottom point - the problem with the circles are a product of circumstances and the setting/culture/society/technology in question.

And rampant religious bigotry. You can't just ignore that component.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Death wrote...

I'm lazy.... So I'm not going to reply to every sentence that responded to my comment, but I'd like to address certain points:

1. It's evident to me (LobselVith8 & IanPolaris) that we both share opposing perspectives regarding the morality of blood magic. I respect your point of view, but I don't necessarily agree with it. A shame the Dragon Age story doesn't (in anyway) share your point of view. If anything, blood magic is presented to the player almost like a cautionary tale. Hmmmm I wonder why? (If you're bemuse by the "cautionary tale" part, I'm sorry, but you may want to replay DAO & DA2 again.)

It's interesting how you blatantly ignored the points Ian and I addressed about how blood magic can be used for purposes that are clearly not malevolent, and then claim that the story doesn't support our argument despite providing no counterpoint of your own. How are phylacteries evil? How is the Joining evil? How are the Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to defeat the darkspawn evil? How was Finn evil in using blood magic to locate an Eluvian? How is Merrill evil for using blood magic to cleanse an Eluvian of the corruption? Are you trying to argue that blood magic is evil when we see areas where it is used for a benevolent purpose, or - in the case of the Joining - preventing the world from literally succumbing to the greatest threat it has ever faced - the darkspawn?

You try to make it seem as though blood magic is simply evil, but the fact remains that we see - time and again - that the narrative illustrates how blood magic is simply a tool. It can be used for harmful purposes, but so can a sword; that doesn't mean a sword is inherently evil.

Darth Death wrote...

2. Guns & swords are associated with murder & killing. Killing isn't evil, however murder is. Blood magic is associated with demons, corruption, & manipulation. Doesn't matter what your intentions are (even if good), the end result will always lead to evil since the constant involvement of demons (which are evil).

This is inaccurate. Aside from the fact that historians debate whether Arlathan elves taught Tevinter mages how to use blood magic, we see that mages don't require demons to learn this school of magic: the prime example of the Orlesian Warden being able to ask the Baroness to teach him about blood magic (prior to discovering that she has become a demon) shows a learned scholar of the arcane arts asking another mage to teach him blood magic is sufficient enough.

Also, from the lore: "Nothing inspires as much wild-eyed terror as the Blood Mage. Mages of this type take the raw energy of life and twist it to their own purposes. They can corrupt and control, and sustain their power by consuming the health of others, willing or not. The effects can be vile, but this specialization isn't limited to madmen and monsters. Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it's tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons."

Furthermore: "Templars hunt blood mages relentlessly, yet despite their efforts, Kirkwall sees more instances of blood magic with each passing year. Some whisper that the Order's relentless hunt has driven good intentioned apostates to blood magic in their desperation to survive and keep their freedom."

Darth Death wrote...

3. IanPolaris said: "Eh, no. Bloodmagic doesn't have to be taught be demons..." That doesn't change the fact that demons still teach blood magic.

As for the rest, there wasn't anything compelling that made me want to address the counter arguments. Merely my opinion.

Demons can teach blood magic, but the school of magic can be taught by others as well - as we see from the historical debate over whether Arlathan elves taught blood magic, and the Orlesian Warden expecting another mage to teach him to use blood magic. Also, Jowan learned from books in the library, which is why they were removed.