187 réponses à ce sujet

[Maker MEDA]

How can anyone fail on Bronze? It's a very different thing for the first couple of rounds adjusting to the way online AIs are compare to Compaign. But after that it's easy if you know to stick close to your team mate and not run off and seperate and get swarmed. Beginners mistakes.

And they beefed Cerberus? No wonder I died like 5x over on the very last money round on Gold the other week. Damn!

[neteng101]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Bronze should be tailored for new players and casuals.

Silver should be tailored for 4 average players.

Gold should be tailored for 4 good players with good manifests.

No reason to make bronze too challenging for newbies or gold "accessible" for bad players.

That's about right.  But gold shouldn't be tailored for 4 elite veteran players with almost done manifests.

I wonder if some folks realize that a lot of players of single player games such as the ME series will never complete these titles at the highest single player difficulty level ever.  They just go with the "average" setting most times and enjoy the story/journey.

Hardcore gamers are the ones that will do SP at the highest difficulty and the group that will find MP easiest to adjust to.  But the market is far larger than just hardcore gamers.

I remember a time when I first started, I thought I'd forever only play Bronze even, and that Silver was too hard an adjustment.  I liked the game enough to continue though, but things were more fun and a bit easier then, pre some of the player nerfs and enemy buffs, etc.  Overall to me the game was in a better place pre patch 1.03/DLC.

[friedricethem0n]

No wonder the two games I had against cerberus this morning had 5 Phantoms, 4 Nemesis and 2 Atlases in a single wave on Wave 6. And I was playing only Silver.

Silver now is harder than Gold in the demo version.

[Adhok42]

mybudgee wrote...

WHO TRULY THINKS Bronze is HARD!?!?!

Ever had that match that no matter what you do, ALL THREE OF YOUR TEAMMATES SCREW IT OVER?

Several times this has happened to me and it turned my Bronze Warmups into Gold Marathons.

And these were triple digit experts who'd clearly been playing awhile.

I've seen double digit and single digit levels play better then some of these veterans.

Trust me, if they're not working with you they're working against you and it can turn a lesiure bronze match into a gold nightmare without changing the difficulty.

[jaydubs67]

neteng101 wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

Bronze should be tailored for new players and casuals.

Silver should be tailored for 4 average players.

Gold should be tailored for 4 good players with good manifests.

No reason to make bronze too challenging for newbies or gold "accessible" for bad players.

But gold shouldn't be tailored for 4 elite veteran players with almost done manifests.

I agree with that.  If they introduced a Platinum mode, I think it should be tailored for 4 elite veteran players, but not Gold.  A full team of good, non-elite players with leveled but unmaxed rare weapons should be able to beat gold most of the time.  It may take some consumables, and it may not be a cakewalk, but it should result in an extraction a majority of the time.  

But note the part about a full team.  A single, merely good player should not be able to carry an average or below-average team through gold by simply selecting a good build.  The direct implication is that the majority of pub gold games might still end in failure for a variety of reasons.  

[Raging Nug]

I approve of this discussion.

[Strict31]

Maker MEDA wrote...

How can anyone fail on Bronze? It's a very different thing for the first couple of rounds adjusting to the way online AIs are compare to Compaign. But after that it's easy if you know to stick close to your team mate and not run off and seperate and get swarmed. Beginners mistakes.

And they beefed Cerberus? No wonder I died like 5x over on the very last money round on Gold the other week. Damn!

Got some good news and some bad news.

The good news is that you're probably an awesome player and stuff.

The bad news is that they only buffed Cerberus today. So, you dying against Cerb on Gold last week had nothing to do with the Cerberus buff.

[Strict31]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

I just finished soloing Bronze with a level 1 Asari Adept (Reapers/Ghost) without using any equipment consumables. If I can do that I have my doubts four new players could consistently fail at Bronze once they have had some practice.

I guess we all have our doubts about what people say on the Internet.

[Krantzstone]

What would have been a nice thing to put in the Spectre area of single player, instead of that silly shooting gallery which I found pretty much pointless, why not have a training area which sets up players in a Bronze-like environment, albeit with the numbers of mobs lowered to reflect only one person playing, so that players can learn exactly how multiplayer works, so that they can explore various maps, try out various builds, strategies, etc.

I mean, creating something like that for the MP portion would be fine too, or have an option/mode where a major domo voice (voiced by Lance Henriksen? Or Tricia Helfer playing EDI? ) will guide players through every aspect of multiplayer, such as learning maps, good use of consumables, when to use grenades and how, etc. I'd also love to see some training in synergistic team play, player etiquette, as well as tactics on how to beat every mob.

If there were something like that, I imagine Bronze wouldn't have that kind of steep learning curve for even casual players, and usually once even a casual player learns how to use certain things, or knows what to do, they get better, and the prospect of getting better and the sense of accomplishment that creates goes a long way towards turning a casual player into a diehard veteran.

I don't believe it's hand-holding to have the game teach you how to play the game, without having to slog through forum threads and game guides and walkthroughs, and if it gets more players excited about multiplayer and have them coming back for more, well then it's definitely worth the time, energy and money spent developing a training tutorial. Turning casual players into diehard fans goes a long way to getting them to shell out for expansion packs and DLC, merchandise, as well as contributing to the BSN and getting their friends into the game too. You can't put a value on that sort of engagement with players, or the community goodwill and word of mouth that it engenders.

[Crimson Invictus]

Strict31 wrote...

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

I just finished soloing Bronze with a level 1 Asari Adept (Reapers/Ghost) without using any equipment consumables. If I can do that I have my doubts four new players could consistently fail at Bronze once they have had some practice.

I guess we all have our doubts about what people say on the Internet.

Because it is something worth lying about, right? I didn't bother screening the Asari final score but have a Bronze solo level 1 soldier instead.

It doesn't change the fact ME3 MP is meant to be played by four people, and while Bronze can be tough to start it is hardly insurmountable for four people.

[curly haired boy]

none of the enemy buffs should have made it to bronze. silver and gold are where the skilled players hang, they need the adjustments, but bronze is the introductory level.

[KiraTsukasa]

I'll freely admit that I'm not a super awesome record all my level 1 gold solo games and post them on youtube in order to school all of the internet player, but I like to think that I'm a fairly competent silver player. My main source of credit income has been from silver games and lately I've seen my success rate dropping and dropping because the enemies are becoming more and more powerful while all my characters are becoming progressively weaker. And when I do manage to complete a mission, I still get meager chump change for a reward, which turns the sense of accomplishment into frustration because in order to actually get anything out of it, I need to struggle through the game even more. Now, I can understand people wanting a challenge, and it's fine to give them that challenge. In their own difficulty. Make gold harder. Leave bronze and silver alone. Bronze is getting pretty close to silver level now, while silver is getting closer to gold, and gold is just as easy as it ever has been. The game is getting harder, but only for the people that can't handle it or don't want it.

Or, if bronze and silver are just going to get more and more difficult, increase the credit rewards accordingly. I really hate that I have to struggle through gold for a silver reward.

[Beerfish]

Agreed about silver. Now most of silver is still manageable but the tough parts. Hacking circle and extraction are tougher than before if you ask me.

[Eelectrica]

friedricethem0n wrote...

No wonder the two games I had against cerberus this morning had 5 Phantoms, 4 Nemesis and 2 Atlases in a single wave on Wave 6. And I was playing only Silver.

Silver now is harder than Gold in the demo version.

I just took myself for a solo Silver run, and never experienced anything like that at least not on wave 6. I'm not good enough for gold so can't comment on that.

I had about that many on wave 9 though. One took me down with a hand cannon thankfully so I was able to complete  to extraction.
Wave 10 was a target elemination, I missiled an Atlas, then a phantom. Used the Graal for the other 2 phantoms that were targets.
I used lvl 2 armour piercing mod thinking that would help me with guardians. It didn't.
Took me 43 minutes to complete, so I probably won't be invited on any speed runs. lol

[Immortal Strife]

I can't imagine anyone becoming discouraged from bronze. If you do know some struggeling players, how about you give them some pointers.

[PaperAlien]

They should rollback all changes to Bronze, and only apply future changes to Silver and Gold.

[KiraTsukasa]

Eelectrica wrote...

friedricethem0n wrote...

No wonder the two games I had against cerberus this morning had 5 Phantoms, 4 Nemesis and 2 Atlases in a single wave on Wave 6. And I was playing only Silver.

Silver now is harder than Gold in the demo version.

I just took myself for a solo Silver run, and never experienced anything like that at least not on wave 6. I'm not good enough for gold so can't comment on that.

I had about that many on wave 9 though. One took me down with a hand cannon thankfully so I was able to complete  to extraction.
Wave 10 was a target elemination, I missiled an Atlas, then a phantom. Used the Graal for the other 2 phantoms that were targets.
I used lvl 2 armour piercing mod thinking that would help me with guardians. It didn't.
Took me 43 minutes to complete, so I probably won't be invited on any speed runs. lol

Weapons like the Graal don't benefit from armor peircing mods in regards to passing through objects (ie guardian shields) so that was probably what you were experiencing. Any other shotgun, except Geth Plasma Shotgun, it would have worked. I know a Claymore II with shredder mod III is enough to headshot guardians through their shields with no ammo mods on any class that I've tried it on.

[WizeMan305]

Bronze has always been a decent challenge for new players. I mean how many people shot rockets at their very first glimpse of an Atlas, Prime, Banshee, and even brutes.. The jump from bronze to silver I think is what turns alot of people off to the game. Once you get a character to lvl 20 and have a few decent guns bronze is not so hard anymore and you jump into something harder.

If you do a silver with a group of players that have no idea what they are doing, or players that are way to critical it is a big put off. I remember my first silver game was with strangers, it was a little before that N7 operation for silver extraction and I thought man this is crazy hard. We made it only to wave 6 and I didn't try again for another week. The fact that I had friends playing on higher difficulties that invited me to their games gave me the confidence to try again. Now Silver is a breeze and I happily help any new players I come across.

[Eelectrica]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Eelectrica wrote...

friedricethem0n wrote...

No wonder the two games I had against cerberus this morning had 5 Phantoms, 4 Nemesis and 2 Atlases in a single wave on Wave 6. And I was playing only Silver.

Silver now is harder than Gold in the demo version.

I just took myself for a solo Silver run, and never experienced anything like that at least not on wave 6. I'm not good enough for gold so can't comment on that.

I had about that many on wave 9 though. One took me down with a hand cannon thankfully so I was able to complete  to extraction.
Wave 10 was a target elemination, I missiled an Atlas, then a phantom. Used the Graal for the other 2 phantoms that were targets.
I used lvl 2 armour piercing mod thinking that would help me with guardians. It didn't.
Took me 43 minutes to complete, so I probably won't be invited on any speed runs. lol

Weapons like the Graal don't benefit from armor peircing mods in regards to passing through objects (ie guardian shields) so that was probably what you were experiencing. Any other shotgun, except Geth Plasma Shotgun, it would have worked. I know a Claymore II with shredder mod III is enough to headshot guardians through their shields with no ammo mods on any class that I've tried it on.

Yeah, I'll have to keep that in mind. It seems strange that a Spike thrower has no AP, and doesn't benefit from AP ammo mods. I was using my Krogan Vanguard to test so needed to keep cooldowns up.

[Eelectrica]

PaperAlien wrote...

They should rollback all changes to Bronze, and only apply future changes to Silver and Gold.

The Bronze changes really aren't noticable. I had a  couple of solo runs with Asari justicar and  noticed no difference.
The only change I'd make to bronze is add another phantom. The reason I say that is to get people used to dealing with them.
Going from 1 or 2 in a wave on Bronze to 4 or 5 in Silver is very noticeable.

[WizeMan305]

Adhok42 wrote...

Ever had that match that no matter what you do, ALL THREE OF YOUR TEAMMATES SCREW IT OVER?

Several times this has happened to me and it turned my Bronze Warmups into Gold Marathons.

And these were triple digit experts who'd clearly been playing awhile.

I've seen double digit and single digit levels play better then some of these veterans.

Trust me, if they're not working with you they're working against you and it can turn a lesiure bronze match into a gold nightmare without changing the difficulty.

Thats how I feel about some Silver lobbies, due to players working against you it becomes harder than gold. You get players fanning out into the far corners of the map going down, putting you in danger while going to revive them, or they bleed out leaving you with more enemies to kill. You get those who ruin spawn spots causing irregular spawing. Others refusing to revive you to get to the top of the scoreboard. 

I appreciate new players, but have trouble tolerating bad players. There is a difference, when you have a tripple digit N7 Ranking you should no better than to run off on the other side of the map to get yourself killed, or camping on a spawn spot before the wave starts thinking you can pick them off as they spawn up...

With players like this gold becomes impossible, even if you can solo gold. That is why for the most part I stick with silver unless I run into a group that can hold its own well then switch over to gold.

[ka243]

Good thread. Agreed with the op. Fixing the geth and having them stop cheating would go a long way to fixing the problem.
So would more specific packs like weapon or character packs or gear packs.  There is soooi much stuff now that its much harder to get high level equipment than before....

Modifié par ka243, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[Stinja]

Had a N7 12, level 12 Adept join our silver game last night. He was using an Avenger I and Katana III. The point about levelled characters/weapons is true, a Graal X was murdering them, but he was using multiple clips vs a pyro; so no chance if three charged him.

He must of been a gamer and finished single player, so was doing the right sort of things, but it was like he was throwing wet sponges at the Geth.

So yes, i truly feel sorry for people just starting multiplayer... this game desperately needs a fourth difficulty, either below Bronze or above Gold, and shuffle the existing difficulties so the easiest is easier than current bronze, and the hardest is Chuck Norris hard.

[joker_jack]

known_hero wrote...

I strongly dislike(don't want to say hate) "newcomers". They ruin games because developers cater to them by watering stuff down.

My advice: catch up or trade in your game. If bronze is too hard, keep practicing. Don't expect developers to baby you.

Don't mean to be rude but I STRONGLY DISLIKE this "make the game more approachable for newcomers" argument.

And thus one of the reasons the longevity of this game is shortened. Elitist idiots like this.

[TehMerc]

joker_jack wrote...
And thus one of the reasons the longevity of this game is shortened. Elitist idiots like this.

I like how you know it's because of x or y instead of other issues, such as the random unlock system or even possibly how we still have 3 enemy types. No, of course it's because that guy who didn't agree that things are too hard.

Love when the trolls come to play indeed.