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Entry Barrier: Constant Spikes in Difficulty have Made This Game Unapproachable For New Gamers


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#126
Bleachrude

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ka243 wrote...

Good thread. Agreed with the op. Fixing the geth and having them stop cheating would go a long way to fixing the problem.
So would more specific packs like weapon or character packs or gear packs.  There is soooi much stuff now that its much harder to get high level equipment than before...


???

Recruit pack is 5k. Bronze match gives out 15k To max out the common weapons, you probably only need to play 10 bronze games...

The only common weapon that isn't good on silver is shuriken. Hell, people rock on GOLD with three of the common weapons (predator, Mantis, Avenger) until they get better weapons.

Again, on Bronze, the game has gotten easier given all the buffs than before...

#127
WandererRTF

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IMHO there is real lack of any kind of FAQs for the MP which makes the Bronze very, very difficult for people starting to play it. In short they haven't gotten the foggiest about what they should do and how they should approach the issue. Without at least one player who actually knows the ropes getting into extraction on Bronze with new players is not as easy as it sounds.

On the other hand i do think people give undue weight to the weapons and their mods. Sure there is a difference between I and X level but it is not exactly as massive as people make it sound. And neither are the starter weapons as poor as people might imagine.

#128
Poison_Berrie

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Some people have said it already, but the problem for new players isn't so much that the buffs have had a terrible effect one difficulty, rather that there is little in the way of educating in the mechanics of the Co-Op side of the game.

#129
darkpassenger2342

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easy video games are for small children.

#130
Reeeeeeeee

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WandererRTF wrote...

IMHO there is real lack of any kind of FAQs for the MP which makes the Bronze very, very difficult for people starting to play it. In short they haven't gotten the foggiest about what they should do and how they should approach the issue.


Truth.

The first time I played MP I didn't have a clue how to replenish my ammo. I've since learned to come running back to BSN every time I have a question about stats/mechanics, which seems kind of absurd now that I think about it.

#131
Arppis

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GallowsPole wrote...

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

I'm annoyed that instead of nerfing Geth, who are completely broken, they have chosen to buff Cerberus. It shows how little Bioware know about balance.


Geth need to be fixed, not nerfed. If anything, they are even easier than Cerberus. The Hunter is really their only deadly unit and a lot of that is because they cheat like hell.


Yeah just like Infiltrators, OUUUU!!! :lol:

...just kidding. To be fair, I never had problems with Hunters, they are cake! But with Rocket troopers? They ****** me off.

#132
Arppis

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known_hero wrote...

I strongly dislike(don't want to say hate) "newcomers". They ruin games because developers cater to them by watering stuff down.

My advice: catch up or trade in your game. If bronze is too hard, keep practicing. Don't expect developers to baby you.

Don't mean to be rude but I STRONGLY DISLIKE this "make the game more approachable for newcomers" argument.


Everyone is a newcommer at some point. How about making the game good for both vets and newbies?

It's not impossible thing to do. Just make the bronze bit more easier. There you go (Oh and Geth gain superpowers when there is lag, so that should be looked into too)!

#133
WandererRTF

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As said above its not really about how easy or how hard the Bronze is. It is more about the unfamiliarity of the MP gaming of ME3. Something which could be greatly improved by having proper FAQ or other kind of source of information for the game.

Starter weapons are quite adequate for any given class available at the start for the enemies on the Bronze. Even level 1 Soldier with Avengie I. Assuming people would know what they should be doing in the game. But as we can see the in game manual is next to useless with this regards and there are no FAQs linked to the multiplayer forum main page. Nor are there much elsewhere either. End result is 4 rookies running around in MP mission like headless chickens without the slightest clue on what on they should be doing - is it any wonder they perceive it as 'very difficult'?

#134
Eire Icon

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The biggest barrier to newcomers is people kicking them on bronze for low level characters or low N7 rank

#135
TeamK

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Hi, i'm new here and just had a few questions regarding some things in MP. I have been reading the forums for a few days, learning about patch changes and what people think are good weapons and classes. I couldn't find a thread to ask questions in, and I didn't want to create a new one soley for my questions, and as this thread is about beginners, i thought i could post it here. Sorry if this is in the wrong thread. Any help would be much appreciated.

Just some context:
I've been playing for the past week or so, and feel like I'm slowly getting better. I play bronze dificulty but now mainly silver due to the challenge and it being much more intense. I have unlocked a fair few rare and a couple of ultra rare weapons, but they are all on level 1 or 2 at the moment so its kind of tough taking down enemies. My preffered classes to use are the geth engineer and drell adept. (i havent unlocked any infiltrators, or any quarian classes yet).

Anyway, to my questions:
1. When i equip a gear bonus, such as SMG rail amp II, and then also a weapon bonus, say SMG rail bonus I, does that stack, and would that mean it is essentially a SMG rail amp III?
2. How does the proximity mine work? How is it best used? should it be used like a defense thing or should it be fired into a group of enemies?
3. Can someone please explain biotic explosions and tech bursts? I always see them but i never really understood what they are. I see them occasionally in my kill feed, especially tech bursts when i use Overload on my geth engineer. And how does a character set these off on their own?
4. Is it ok to use a sniper on any class besides an infiltrator?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Modifié par TeamK, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:33 .


#136
DnVill

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TeamK wrote...

Hi, i'm new here and just had a few questions regarding some things in MP. I have been reading the forums for a few days, learning about patch changes and what people think are good weapons and classes. I couldn't find a thread to ask questions in, and I didn't want to create a new one soley for my questions, and as this thread is about beginners, i thought i could post it here. Sorry if this is in the wrong thread. Any help would be much appreciated.

Just some context:
I've been playing for the past week or so, and feel like I'm slowly getting better. I play bronze dificulty but now mainly silver due to the challenge and it being much more intense. I have unlocked a fair few rare and a couple of ultra rare weapons, but they are all on level 1 or 2 at the moment so its kind of tough taking down enemies. My preffered classes to use are the geth engineer and drell adept. (i havent unlocked any infiltrators, or any quarian classes yet).

Anyway, to my questions:
1. When i equip a gear bonus, such as SMG rail amp II, and then also a weapon bonus, say SMG rail bonus I, does that stack, and would that mean it is essentially a SMG rail amp III?
2. How does the proximity mine work? How is it best used? should it be used like a defense thing or should it be fired into a group of enemies?
3. Can someone please explain biotic explosions and tech bursts? I always see them but i never really understood what they are. I see them occasionally in my kill feed, especially tech bursts when i use Overload on my geth engineer. And how does a character set these off on their own?
4. Is it ok to use a sniper on any class besides an infiltrator?

Thanks in advance for any help!


1. I believe they stack, as for the numbers im not too sure.

2. just use it to debuff enemies, best way to do it is to chuck it beside them instead of using it as a "mine" and wait for the enemies to step on it.

3. it a combination of 2 powers. a Primer and a detonator. (eg. warp + throw = BE  warp + overload = Tech Burst) there are lots just google it.

4. I've seen a lot of people use snipers on diff classes. though some classes are despised if they use snipers.

good luck!

#137
hippojoe

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the game is not that hard for newcomers

my brother is 12 and has never played any ME or any 3rd person game and plays it just fine

lol if its too hard, they can wait to get it on the Wii U, im sure that will be full of horrible people haha

#138
WandererRTF

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Raw FAQ
Something more & links
Links to weapon data & mod/gear data & consumables

1. They do stack but the math is not as simple as adding together the 'amp levels'. SMG Gear Amp II gives you +7.5% to SMG damage, with SMG Rail Amp I consumable you get +10%. While SMG Gear Amp III would have given you only +10% (equivalent to SMG Rail Amp I). AFAIK bonuses are all added together before multiplying them with the actual damage values.

2. You can use it like a non-consumable easy to aim grenade or as a mine. Depending on the situation. It is very good when used offensively as it can debuff whole groups of enemies on the other hand it can be used to 'guard' against flankers.

3. See the linked FAQ

4. Any class can be a sniper, however given that sniper rifle damages are often not exactly stellar and that they are rather weighty using one may not be a smart move. You can usually get the same result using for example heavy pistol. Some combinations work really well but are at times despised by certain players - like asari stasis snipers. In general if you are using power dependent class you might want to ask yourself the exact reason for dragging that Javelin with you? Problem with this becomes more obvious when combo biotic/tech explosions are factored in - but as long as you can keep the cooldowns in control it should not matter that much.

#139
DragonRacer

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kviksverd wrote...

cly57 wrote...

DragonRacer wrote...

**A nice little anectdote that more need to read**


You are my hero....seriously.  We need more of this - new people need mentors.  I'm in the mood to go play a Bronze match now.


Count me a member of the fan club as well.

I always try to be supportive of new players, but have never gone to such lengths.  Having read her account, I think I shall try harder from now on.


Awww, now I'm blushing! Posted Image

But seriously, I do it because I would have LOVED to have had a mentor when I first started MP. It felt so different from the SP campaign... where's my power wheel? What are these objectives talking about? Why is it taking a million clips to kill a Cerberus trooper? Oh my God, what is this I don't even! It was a nightmare for a while and I had to figure it out the hard way... like most of us had to do, I suppose. But if I can ease that learning curve for someone else, why the heck not? No skin off my nose. Posted Image

Glad you two are willing to join the ME3 MP Mentors Club. LOL

#140
Ogrinash

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Since I Promote each time I hit 20, I always put my level 1 character in a Bronze game; played with a lot of new people, and they pretty much get the gist of it.

There's rarely a match where the other three are new. Most times people have N7 ratings over the amount of character classes.

#141
tCruzin4lyfe

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Undine.N wrote...

I've expressed it before and I'll say it again: I miss the game I bought.

I agree with the OP. It would probably be ok if they buffed us along with the enemy. Instead, they keep catering to the Krogan Vanguards and Geth Infiltrators who find the game too easy and care not for the dead once-upon-a-time glass cannon rotting on the floor somewhere... and no, I don't have anything against those two classes at all. It's some of the elitists who only play the strongest classes and then complain about the game being too easy who are a problem.


This

#142
gerryd

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Well as a 2 week old newcomer yes all these buffs are very off putting which is why I'm playing ME3 on insane for the platinum and then trading it in for another game. I bought this game off the back of the multiplayer demo which I though was pretty fun but I was late to the party because I had some stuff to take care of in the real world and couldn't find time to play anything from feb to may.

Jumping in late I noticed the game was a lot harder even on bronce. Weapon damage was reduced greatly and enemy damage was increased a lot. I finally started getting good and could complete silver challenges for the first few days but then the game got harder and harder. So hard in fact that my last 7 games on silver my squad could barely reach wave 9. Thats 3.5 hours of play for a crappy 80k credits.

I've had enough, I know nerfs won't come so I'm quitting. All the veterens and their quest for a harder game have ruined it on the new guys so I wish them luck. Their own selfishness will destroy this game and in 5 months when its hard finding a game, just remember , your will to have a harder game is the reason MP died.

Thanks Bioware for a fun week or so but I learned from this game that yous ain't the devs people make yous out to be. As for the veterans that will flame my statements. Not everyone is as skilled as yous or have as much free time as yous to play. Get over it. I play video games for fun and play online to have fun with people around the world. I don't play games to frustrate the crap out of me. Goodbye and please stop telling newbs to just get better with your maxed out gear that can counter these buffs.

#143
dvjm

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I agree with the OP.

The enemies have been buffed to provide a challenge vs. the over-powered weapons that those people who have cracked 100 PSPs have. But that means that basic weapons and the original strength biotics won't cut it in the hands of an inexperienced player. (There is no ultra-rare BE to match your Harrier IV or Krysae X, remember.)

The game within a month or so of release, with most people using Common or Uncommon weapons and the old strength enemies had a much gentler difficulty curve: Bronze was easy, Silver challenging, and Gold very hard. Now even Bronze is challenging with that level of weapon unless your tactics are great - which beginners' aren't.

#144
WandererRTF

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Balance changes... Hard to see where it would actually have gotten that much harder. Only notable change is with the Geth. Even then weapons for players have been buffed far beyond of what the enemies have been. Also changes for bronze have been much smaller than on other difficulties. What has happened is that the curve seems to be steeper than before.

#145
AmicusHumaniGeneris

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gerryd wrote...

Well as a 2 week old newcomer yes all these buffs are very off putting which is why I'm playing ME3 on insane for the platinum and then trading it in for another game. I bought this game off the back of the multiplayer demo which I though was pretty fun but I was late to the party because I had some stuff to take care of in the real world and couldn't find time to play anything from feb to may.

Jumping in late I noticed the game was a lot harder even on bronce. Weapon damage was reduced greatly and enemy damage was increased a lot. I finally started getting good and could complete silver challenges for the first few days but then the game got harder and harder. So hard in fact that my last 7 games on silver my squad could barely reach wave 9. Thats 3.5 hours of play for a crappy 80k credits.

I've had enough, I know nerfs won't come so I'm quitting. All the veterens and their quest for a harder game have ruined it on the new guys so I wish them luck. Their own selfishness will destroy this game and in 5 months when its hard finding a game, just remember , your will to have a harder game is the reason MP died.

Thanks Bioware for a fun week or so but I learned from this game that yous ain't the devs people make yous out to be. As for the veterans that will flame my statements. Not everyone is as skilled as yous or have as much free time as yous to play. Get over it. I play video games for fun and play online to have fun with people around the world. I don't play games to frustrate the crap out of me. Goodbye and please stop telling newbs to just get better with your maxed out gear that can counter these buffs.

And this is what we get when people who have played long enough to easily wipe the floor on Gold with newbie things like a HS with an Avenger (presumably, if not, STFU about the game being too easy on higher levels), doesn't comprehend that having the same loadout does not, in fact, mean that the game is as easy for everyone. After a while, it's easy to see the beginning in a rosy light, especially when the begining was actually easier for most of us. And now it looks like it's come to a level where some newbies quit because it's not fun anymore. Why the whining of the "1337s"? Hint: Someone able to solo Gold being annoyed with people not up to their standard, doesn't imply there shouldn't be an easy entry for those wishing to have a go at it until they improve over time. <_<

Regarding the Silver experience, though, the Silver games haven't got massively more difficult over the course ofa few days. Barely reaching level 9 is more a symptom of a squad not quite up to it, that is, you were unlucky with your squadmates or lucky before you got into trouble. Why didn't you stick to Bronze for a while longer to get better and have fun? And completing Silver half-way would normally get you as much credits as completing Bronze, but at a lower time spent, so not completing Silver isn't necessarily a waste. 80k isn't crappy if you spend them on Recruit/Veteran packs to get some nice upgrades of your common stuff and maybe an uncommon weapon/character or two. It's only crappy when you've maxed out all that and wants the ultra-rares. I'd give it a couple of more weeks, then decide if it's fun enough to stay or not. ;)

#146
known_hero

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darkpassenger2342 wrote...

easy video games are for small children.


Harsh but true.

Like I said before, if losing makes you quit then you weren't that dedicated from the start.

But it looks like I'm in the minority here. Fair enough.

Before I leave, I will present this question to newcomers: will you FIGHT or RUN? Bronze might be a little tougher but that's because the silver and gold platoons are getting overwhelmed. You new guys are forced to pick up the slack; it's not fair but it's the situation we are stuck in.

The Reapers are getting stronger. While we waste time complaining, your family and friends are being harvested, cities laid to ruins, losing our alliance soldiers. The Reapers forces will show no mercy but neither will we. This isn't going to be easy but look around you, you are not in this fight alone. The fate of the entire galaxy is in our hands. Many sacrificed themselves to give us the opportunity we have now.

So I say, grab your LV 1 Avenger and join the fight. Take it to the Reapers! Show them that we will not bow down, we will not give up, we will not obey, WE WILL FIGHT!!!!!

Modifié par known_hero, 05 juillet 2012 - 01:09 .


#147
Krantzstone

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Having not read the forums till relatively recently, when I first started playing multiplayer I learned almost everything about it from watching other teammates play (usually while I was spectating because I was dead ;P). I was lucky that some half-decent players were still in the Bronze games so I had a chance to play with them and watch them so I could learn the ropes: I wonder if there still are older players who are willing to put in some time in the Bronze games, showing newbies how to play smartly and effectively, or whether they're all too busy soloing Gold and/or farming credits to max out their ultra rares. ;P

I still try to get some Bronze games in, and I'll use a recently promoted character with a new build I want to try out just so I don't end up killing too many things, to give newer players a chance to get their licks in. Mostly just messing about with new ways of playing or testing things, but still be available to bail out the team if they're dying and need rezzes, or a timely Cobra to clear a target objective if they aren't going to finish it in time.

I guess there's no reward for doing that which makes the pittance of Bronze credits worthwhile for the 20-30 min spent playing, but I want to do my part to make sure newer players aren't waiting around forever to find 3 other randoms to play a Bronze game with.

#148
rmccowen

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I ignored the OP because I'm trying to keep my temper around here a little better, but... this is too much.

gerryd wrote...

Jumping in late I noticed the game was a lot harder even on bronce.

Harder than what? The demo, which was adjusted heavily for launch? Single player?

Weapon damage was reduced greatly and enemy damage was increased a lot.

No, they weren't. Geth and some Cerberus units have had buffs to health and damage, from 10-20% depending on the unit and the difficulty. That extra 75-150 health is worth less than half a second's worth of fire from an Avenger I.

I finally started getting good and could complete silver challenges for the first few days but then the game got harder and harder. So hard in fact that my last 7 games on silver my squad could barely reach wave 9. Thats 3.5 hours of play for a crappy 80k credits.

You found Silver too difficult after two weeks of play; I don't think that's unusual. Is there a reason you can't select Bronze difficulty? The same 7 games would have netted you about 105,000 credits there, and probably gone a little faster.

And regardless of whether a particular reader agrees with the OP, it's pretty certain that the game hasn't gotten substantially harder over the past two weeks, which is the timeframe we're talking about.

I've had enough, I know nerfs won't come so I'm quitting. All the veterens and their quest for a harder game have ruined it on the new guys so I wish them luck. Their own selfishness will destroy this game and in 5 months when its hard finding a game, just remember , your will to have a harder game is the reason MP died.

There's no way not to put this in personal terms, but I'll try to keep it appropriate: a lack of perseverance on your part doesn't constitute a problem on my part. Also, it's worth returning to the question of why, if you find the game too difficult, you don't simply lower the difficulty setting.

As for the veterans that will flame my statements. Not everyone is as skilled as yous or have as much free time as yous to play. Get over it. I play video games for fun and play online to have fun with people around the world. I don't play games to frustrate the crap out of me. Goodbye and please stop telling newbs to just get better with your maxed out gear that can counter these buffs.

Hi! I play for the same reason, and I also don't have a lot of free time. I get to play maybe twice a week, for two or three hours at a time.

But, one more time: the game has three difficulty settings. Two hours of play on Bronze, at half an hour per match and assuming you get to extraction only half the time, is worth 36,000 credits. If you can do that twice in a week, you can afford 14 Recruit Packs (15, including the one you start with). Because the store is often frustratingly random, that won't always level everything you have up--but those packs will contain a mix of weapon upgrades, experience for your characters, and weapon mods that will in turn make Bronze difficulty easier.

Repeat the same over another weekend, and it's likely that you will begin to have common weapons and mods maxed, and can more effectively move on to Silver. If you try to jump into Silver straightaway, you're going to abruptly find that there are more enemies there, and they deal more damage; the later waves include multiple bosses, which can be a challenge even for experienced players.

So, finding the difficulty you selected too much for your brand-new character, your considered reaction is to blame other people--namely the developers and "veterans" of BSN--and ragequit.

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider that decision and give the game a second try. It's consistently enjoyable once you get over the initial hurdle of moving from SP to MP, and I find the developers' efforts to keep the game balanced to be a net positive for the game.

#149
Weltenschlange

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DragonRacer wrote...
[...] I will sometimes spend my time doing a "Bronze Day". Now that I'm pretty reliable to almost always extract in silver unless things have really gone to poop, I'll take a break and go host a bronze room. I'll then help the rookies if they have questions or seem confused. And you know what? For all the stories I hear about people who offer advice getting met with defensive snark, I seem to experience way more people expressing appreciation.

A great example was last Sunday. My husband is in that spot of bronze being easy, but silver being a little too difficult still. He wanted to play with me, so I hosted a bronze room and invited him in, then filled the other two spots with public randoms. We had an N17 with a Level 17 human female infiltrator come in. The last spot rotated a lot from game to game. That poor N17 was... not very good. Not terribly great with the sniper rifle, but she was trying, bless her heart (I say she because the name certainly pointed in that direction, though she had no mic). And I really can't say much because I'm a terrible sniper, too... one reason I don't do infiltrators much, outside of a shotgun one occasionally.

But that N17 hung around for HOURS. She was the first to immediately ready up and she tried hard every wave. She even learned the hard way that you can't run while holding the pizza, and I nicely let her know the other things that would and wouldn't cause it to drop from you. After my husband left the room to play a different game, I didn't have the heart to leave because that little N17 kept readying up so quickly to go again. I can only assume she liked my advice and didn't find it annoying/condescending because she readied so fast every time.

And dangit if I didn't start feeling a bit motherly about her. I rezzed her when needed, she stuck by my side quite a bit and yet did go venture out on her own at times. And she struggled so hard with the sniping but seemed determine to improve, so I started doing a little trick to help her. I ran my Turian Sentinel the whole time, so I would overload an enemy I could see she had her eye on. That got them to stop running and just stand there and writhe with electricity... long enough for her to draw a bead and fire. Did that a LOT with the geth, especially. Figured once she gets good at sniping non-running enemies, she'll eventually get better at hitting them on the run. Seemed to work, too, although I get the impression someone must have yelled at her for kill-stealing before she joined my room. At first, she would avoid the things I overloaded, like I had "claimed" them as mine to kill. Once I told her to shoot the things I overloaded, we were off. Got her up to N7 20 and she was starting to get more points each match by the time I finally left (like, 3 hours later LOL).

And you know what? It was fun, helping the new kids like that. There was one match where they would have failed on Jade/Geth because they all three went down and I had to burn a rocket to clear it out and revive them (yeah, I could have let them die and finished the round solo, but that's not my personality; I would rather revive teammates at all costs... especially those that died via circumstance and not because they were being morons).

I call it "rookie farming". Not farming in the sense of FBW/G/G. But farming in that I am taking time to help cultivate a new crop of MP players, trying to ensure I will always have someone to play with in the future. Posted Image


D'aaw! That's a great story. :happy:

Thank you for being a helpful veteran.

I think a lot of online multiplayer games could gain so much from having an integrated "mentor-mode".

#150
Gneisenau 19

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I agree with OP. They need to take Cerberus an Geth back to the way they were about 3 patches ago!