55 réponses à ce sujet

[JShepppp]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Fantastic post. I really didn't know what to expect, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Thanks, CosmicGnosis. Your support on my threads is incredibly humbling.

[JShepppp]

Hazegurl wrote...

JShepppp wrote...
Snipped

No fire isn't at war because fire doesn't think, doesn't contain warfare logic and tatics, and isn't premeditated. It doesn't kill everyone you love then turn them into monsters mind controlled to kill you, it doesn't destory every single living being in a planet every 50,000 years, it doesn't threaten you, attempt to break your morale, attempt to use everyone and everything you care about against you. It doesn't decide where to blaze first or last, doesn't have scouts watching you,and it doesn't send other beings to kidnap your people.

You want to know who can do a good number of those things? Someone starting a war.

You are correct in saying that fire does not think, and you are correct in (implying?) saying that the Reapers can think.

But my comparison was not because fire/the Reapers have similar cognitive abilities. It was because they had similar self-control. Basically, the fire here is controlled by someone, just as the Reapers are controlled by the Catalyst. This someone controls the fire entirely such that anything the fire does can be attributed to this person's control. Similarly, the Reapers are controled so entirely that anything they do can be attributed to the Catalyst's control. That was the analogy I was trying to make.

[Argentoid]

6/5

Would bang, ok?

[Hazegurl]

JShepppp wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

JShepppp wrote...
Snipped

No fire isn't at war because fire doesn't think, doesn't contain warfare logic and tatics, and isn't premeditated. It doesn't kill everyone you love then turn them into monsters mind controlled to kill you, it doesn't destory every single living being in a planet every 50,000 years, it doesn't threaten you, attempt to break your morale, attempt to use everyone and everything you care about against you. It doesn't decide where to blaze first or last, doesn't have scouts watching you,and it doesn't send other beings to kidnap your people.

You want to know who can do a good number of those things? Someone starting a war.

You are correct in saying that fire does not think, and you are correct in (implying?) saying that the Reapers can think.

But my comparison was not because fire/the Reapers have similar cognitive abilities. It was because they had similar self-control. Basically, the fire here is controlled by someone, just as the Reapers are controlled by the Catalyst. This someone controls the fire entirely such that anything the fire does can be attributed to this person's control. Similarly, the Reapers are controled so entirely that anything they do can be attributed to the Catalyst's control. That was the analogy I was trying to make.

Considering that Sovereign and Harbinger have a good time trolling Shepard throughout Me1 and 2. telling him how much he will fail etc I would say they are thinking beings. I just don't see the reapers as fire. More like henchmen sent to do a job and they do it well. imo, To view them as fire would be focusing only on their destructive capabilities and the results of that destruction and they did more than just destory. As for the Catalyst, I just see him as a failure. He only does what is programmed? I disagree. He just does what he needs to justify his own existence. "I stop organics from being kill by synthetics by creating synthetics to kill them. I won't even think about how stupid this sounds, I have a job to do because if I don't do this job then what was I created for?"(not actual dialouge of course lol!) He's nothing but an AI who refused to ask the questions EDI asks and he's too arrogant to find another way to understand organics like the Geth no matter how many mistakes may be made to do so.  Perhaps if the game wasn't  rushed out the writer could have done a better job executing everything you wrote. But good read even if I don't agree.

[Sibu]

Undestanding the Catalyst: He is a ****ing idiot.

Sorry... i really needed to do that. Really good thread.

[Ieldra]

Hazegurl wrote...

JShepppp wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

JShepppp wrote...
Snipped

No fire isn't at war because fire doesn't think, doesn't contain warfare logic and tatics, and isn't premeditated. It doesn't kill everyone you love then turn them into monsters mind controlled to kill you, it doesn't destory every single living being in a planet every 50,000 years, it doesn't threaten you, attempt to break your morale, attempt to use everyone and everything you care about against you. It doesn't decide where to blaze first or last, doesn't have scouts watching you,and it doesn't send other beings to kidnap your people.

You want to know who can do a good number of those things? Someone starting a war.

You are correct in saying that fire does not think, and you are correct in (implying?) saying that the Reapers can think.

But my comparison was not because fire/the Reapers have similar cognitive abilities. It was because they had similar self-control. Basically, the fire here is controlled by someone, just as the Reapers are controlled by the Catalyst. This someone controls the fire entirely such that anything the fire does can be attributed to this person's control. Similarly, the Reapers are controled so entirely that anything they do can be attributed to the Catalyst's control. That was the analogy I was trying to make.

Considering that Sovereign and Harbinger have a good time trolling Shepard throughout Me1 and 2. telling him how much he will fail etc I would say they are thinking beings. I just don't see the reapers as fire. More like henchmen sent to do a job and they do it well. imo, To view them as fire would be focusing only on their destructive capabilities and the results of that destruction and they did more than just destory. As for the Catalyst, I just see him as a failure. He only does what is programmed? I disagree. He just does what he needs to justify his own existence. "I stop organics from being kill by synthetics by creating synthetics to kill them. I won't even think about how stupid this sounds, I have a job to do because if I don't do this job then what was I created for?"(not actual dialouge of course lol!) He's nothing but an AI who refused to ask the questions EDI asks and he's too arrogant to find another way to understand organics like the Geth no matter how many mistakes may be made to do so.  Perhaps if the game wasn't  rushed out the writer could have done a better job executing everything you wrote. But good read even if I don't agree.

Except that the Catalyst doesn't just kill organics. It preserves what it considers essential to them. If you follow Legion, the minds of the harvested organics continue to exist as a part of the Reaper mind. The "making synthetics to kill organics to prevent them from being killed by other synthetics" is a gross oversimplification.

As for the Reapers being controlled, as indoctrination shows, mind control can be a lot more subtle than simple remote control. Sovereign and Harbinger had their own personalities, but that doesn't mean they didn't follow directives implanted in them by the Catalyst. All the Catalyst needs to do is implant a belief that the cycle is necessary, with all the Catalyst's rationale for it attached.