KingJason13 wrote...
WTH did Harbinger stop firing long enough to let the Normandy fly in, park in front of him, let a tearful goodbye occur, NOT shoot the totally exposed enemy warship that has plagued him for 2 games, let them fly awkwardly away... and then resume firing at the ant-sized people on the ground!?
1. My point is that you are saying people would not have been pissed if Shepard left his crew behind to die. My point is that whether or not something "makes sense" isn't going to prevent people from behind pissed. The Normandy leaving is a perfect example of a scene that makes realistic military sense but was lambasted anyway because people didn't like the endings in general and wanted to find reasons to put down any part of them. I feel like this is the same way, though for the opposite reasons.
2. He leaves because Shepard is knocked out on the ground. Notice when Shepard wakes up he's already leaving. And Shepard doesn't get evac'd because he's fine; his crew was physically unable to conitnue.
3. It's not a plot hole. Unlikely sequence of events isn't a plot hole. It's a plot shield though.
As for your last point that is fair, I'm not going to tell you how your feelings are wrong. I would actually be interested to know how out of place it felt for people playing it for the FIRST time. It will feel out of place for us no matter what, obviously, knowing how it went down previously.
I mean this seems important so why would he leave it's pretty unlikely he got everyone. Hedid not only miss Shepard but also Anderson. It just seems so cliche that the villain leaves to celebrate at the end and gets defeated. me usually does better.
I actually laughed the first time on this scene, I guess the moment wasn't quite there for me but I agree that most people probably did not think somuch about it the first time.
Octopus_DK wrote...
1. Sorry I was confused. I thought you were talking about in game characters being mad. Well I I guess I just see more people complaining about plot holes but then I certainly pick and choose my threads.
2. Well him leaving also bothers me sorry
3. Well I agree that sometimes you can suspend disbelief for a good dramatic scene. Still e mark of good story telling is plausibility and this seems a bit too far out there for me. T plot holes are never impossible to explain you can always make up something, look at IT
And I'm not sure ME usually DOES do better. It's filled with cliches, but BioWare's trademark IMO has always been master of the cliche; taking something that's been done before and doing it well with quality writing and nuance. I mean, did you notice in ME1 all the times Saren could have killed Shepard?
Modifié par CronoDragoon, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:49 .
Han Shot First wrote...
This isn't as unrealistic as some make it out to be.
Even during the amphibious assaults on places like Normandy, Tarawa, or Iwo Jima during the Second World War, there were landing craft and amtracs evacuating the more seriously wounded while the beach head was still very much contested and under fire. So the evac itself isn't a problem.
The difference of course is that these landing craft and amtracs were usually under fire as well, unlike the Normandy. But there are circumstances in the game to explain why the Normandy does not come under fire. Harbinger was probably preoccupied with the large numbers of dismounted infantry, gunships, and tanks that were close to the beam. As the Citadel was not garrisoned with Reaper troops, any one of these people could have potentially foiled the Reapers plans. The Normandy on the hand, was simply evacuating wounded and not directly aiding the push for the beam. It was simply not a priority target at that time. As noted by one of the posters above me, Harbinger is still firing during that sequence. You can hear it in the background. He just isn't firing at the Normandy.
Think of it as a gamer: Lets say you are playing as Harbinger during that sequence, and you've got all these troops and tanks and gunships rushing the beam. If even one makes it to the beam you lose the game. They are coming at the beam almost faster than you can fire, and you've almost got too many targets to take care of. You are getting twitchy and have to button mash to just to get them all. In the middle of that are you going to run the risk of shifting your fire from them to the Normandy in the background, which is playing no role in the beam rush?
shepdog77 wrote...
He was trying to prevent people from getting to the beam, not the people trying to get away.
Vespervin wrote...
The way I see it is that Harbinger was focused on those heading TOWARDS the Beam. If Harbinger stopped shooting those soldiers just to try and take out the Normandy, some of the Soldiers could've made it into the Beam and thus Harbinger would've failed.
Modifié par Xellith, 05 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .
Xellith wrote...
Vespervin wrote...
The way I see it is that Harbinger was focused on those heading TOWARDS the Beam. If Harbinger stopped shooting those soldiers just to try and take out the Normandy, some of the Soldiers could've made it into the Beam and thus Harbinger would've failed.
Yeah because Harbinger eventually just says
allowing Shepard and Anderson to get onboard. I dont buy that his aim can go from 100% to "oooooh you are now just very badly burned." and then he takes off. The Normandy could have been dropping troops off. Either way it should have been targetted.
Xellith wrote...
allowing Shepard and Anderson to get onboard. I dont buy that his aim can go from 100% to "oooooh you are now just very badly burned." and then he takes off. The Normandy could have been dropping troops off. Either way it should have been targetted.
Actually good explanation.macrocarl wrote...
Harby's job at that point was to block any incoming folks heading towards the beam not blast people leaving. If you listen to the Catalyst about Reapers being like flames, you can infer they do their job and aren't wrathful. Harby was gunning against Shep in ME2 but that's because Harby's job at that time was to collect enough humans to make a new Reaper. So Shep was in direct conflict with Harby's mission. Plain and simple really.
IIRC when Harby is "watching" the Normandy taking off, there is a time frame of 3-4 seconds in which not even one laser shot is heard.gmboy902 wrote...
KingJason13 wrote...
WTH did Harbinger stop firing long enough to let the Normandy fly in, park in front of him, let a tearful goodbye occur, NOT shoot the totally exposed enemy warship that has plagued him for 2 games, let them fly awkwardly away... and then resume firing at the ant-sized people on the ground!?
If someone is running at you with a knife, and someone else is behind him cheering him on, who are you going to shoot?
There were still a bunch of soldiers running for the beam. If even one of them made it, Harbinger knew that the war might be over.
Xellith wrote...
I dont buy that his aim can go from 100% to "oooooh you are now just very badly burned." and then he takes off.
Modifié par Adanu, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:02 .
Modifié par Sire Styx, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:24 .
This. Also, him flying off can now be interpreted as him chasing the Normandy after his priority targets (i. e. Hammer) appear to have been eliminated.Han Shot First wrote...
This isn't as unrealistic as some make it out to be.
Even during the amphibious assaults on places like Normandy, Tarawa, or Iwo Jima during the Second World War, there were landing craft and amtracs evacuating the more seriously wounded while the beach head was still very much contested and under fire. So the evac itself isn't a problem.
The difference of course is that these landing craft and amtracs were usually under fire as well, unlike the Normandy. But there are circumstances in the game to explain why the Normandy does not come under fire. Harbinger was probably preoccupied with the large numbers of dismounted infantry, gunships, and tanks that were close to the beam. As the Citadel was not garrisoned with Reaper troops, any one of these people could have potentially foiled the Reapers plans. The Normandy on the hand, was simply evacuating wounded and not directly aiding the push for the beam. It was simply not a priority target at that time. As noted by one of the posters above me, Harbinger is still firing during that sequence. You can hear it in the background. He just isn't firing at the Normandy.
Think of it as a gamer: Lets say you are playing as Harbinger during that sequence, and you've got all these troops and tanks and gunships rushing the beam. If even one makes it to the beam you lose the game. They are coming at the beam almost faster than you can fire, and you've almost got too many targets to take care of. You are getting twitchy and have to button mash to just to get them all. In the middle of that are you going to run the risk of shifting your fire from them to the Normandy in the background, which is playing no role in the beam rush?
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