470 réponses à ce sujet

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Arial

Oh, lets bring the N7 insult again, ridiculous. Anyway, You logic that Shepard only plan after Refusal is to fight off, also, Shepard has been told many things over and over again which he has done.

I showed the Math, there are not enough organics in the galaxy to down the Reapers, and there never will be.

Shepard is told this, Shepard knows this.

anyways, your arguement has gone from it being Genocide, which we disproved. to it being unnecasary, which we've disproved.

I have come to the conclusion you are just looking for reasons to argue for something you know is impossible.

and ive get better things to do the feed your need for conflict.

Good day sir

On my eyes, its a better chance than trusting the enemy, no matter how much math you do, how impossible it seems, I will always take the chance of trying to fight them off, than to trust the enemy, its the same leap of faith except one is trusting the enemy, one is trusting your allies
Carry on.

[DistantUtopia]

ghost9191 wrote...

the catalyst had been trying it but found that it is somehting that can't be forced.. and that it was not possible till shep showed up. ironically it is forced on everyone

also showed it hated the idea of control and destroy, 

 i say we all forget the problems between destroy and refuse and gang up on synthesis

[wulf3n]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
"Thought" it would stop the Reapers is better than "knowing we can't stop the Reapers". It is. It's a CHANCE. 

 

But a chance at what? For all you know a misfire of the crucible would wipe out ALL life in the galaxy. Is it really worth risking all life that ever will be over a chance? at least by allowing the catalyst to win, your giving the next cycle a chance.

Father_Jerusalem wrote... 
And yes, I know it's a tube not a button, I was making the example that the Starchild would try to distract you from the glowy tube with a "Free cake" button. 

 

My point was a button is the symbol for push this and stuff will happen. What is a glass tube a symbol for? i dunno generating light maybe... but it wouldn't be obvious that shooting it would make anything happen.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...  
To be perfectly blunt: If I was bleeding to death, the fleets of the combined galaxy were getting their asses handed to them, and the only chance at winning to get this giant hunk of metal to fire... I don't know that there is anything that I would say "I wouldn't be stupid enough" to do. 

That's based on the assumption that any firing of the crucible would only damage synthetics, which shepard couldn't possibly know.

[The Genophage]

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


You know going in that you have zero chance to win other than by using the Crucible. You refuse to use the Crucible. You allow the cycle to continue, deliberately.

I don't know how that can even be argued against. 

Because your anology can be turned completely otherwise based on how your seing things
"You think the catalyst is lying because their promoting something which has always led to evil, you know you have no choise unless you try to beat them conventionally" see where im going.

Um. No.

You cannot beat them conventionally. This has been drilled into your head since you first found out what a Reaper is. Allowing the Reapers to win, which is what you do in Refuse, is evil. It's a far greater evil than anything involved in picking one of the three options you're given.

[babachewie]

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

[The Genophage]

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

[babachewie]

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

Oh jesus. Yes!!! the protheans even fought over it. Like You fight over it with cerberus. Excpet it only works if you're not indoctrinated. TIM was ands so were the protheans backing it. You cant control thing thats already controlling you. Man its all there if you'd pay attention to the game.

[savionen]

Conventional victory shouldn't be possible, they're not capable of the technology.

The Alliance making a DEM machine that controls the Reapers and shoots out a green beam and rewrites the DNA of the entire galaxy, that makes sense.

[ghost9191]

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

[The Genophage]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


You know going in that you have zero chance to win other than by using the Crucible. You refuse to use the Crucible. You allow the cycle to continue, deliberately.

I don't know how that can even be argued against. 

Because your anology can be turned completely otherwise based on how your seing things
"You think the catalyst is lying because their promoting something which has always led to evil, you know you have no choise unless you try to beat them conventionally" see where im going.

Um. No.

You cannot beat them conventionally. This has been drilled into your head since you first found out what a Reaper is. Allowing the Reapers to win, which is what you do in Refuse, is evil. It's a far greater evil than anything involved in picking one of the three options you're given.

Um yes.
You know what else has been drilled on your head, to not trust the enemy, but your doing anyway aren't you buddy.

[SMichelle]

DistantUtopia wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

the catalyst had been trying it but found that it is somehting that can't be forced.. and that it was not possible till shep showed up. ironically it is forced on everyone

also showed it hated the idea of control and destroy, 

 i say we all forget the problems between destroy and refuse and gang up on synthesis

....But...but Synthesis has everyone join hands in peace and harmony singing kumbaya (and I think I even saw a unicorn!).

Why would you want to pick on that?

MONSTSERS!  

[babachewie]

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

[DistantUtopia]

SMichelle wrote...

....But...but Synthesis has everyone join hands in peace and harmony singing kumbaya (and I think I even saw a unicorn!).

Why would you want to pick on that?

MONSTSERS!  

Of course, by Gang up, we mean join hands in peace and hugs and stuff. 



Right, Max?

[ghost9191]

SMichelle wrote...

DistantUtopia wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

the catalyst had been trying it but found that it is somehting that can't be forced.. and that it was not possible till shep showed up. ironically it is forced on everyone

also showed it hated the idea of control and destroy, 

 i say we all forget the problems between destroy and refuse and gang up on synthesis

....But...but Synthesis has everyone join hands in peace and harmony singing kumbaya (and I think I even saw a unicorn!).

Why would you want to pick on that?

MONSTSERS!  

idk i am guessing you are being sarcastic? if not, i do because it says that we cannot achieve peace while there is deversity, whereas i am pretty sure my mother taught me different. more reasons but that is main for me. with destroy it shows that we don't need the reapers for that. control is iffy because it seems like a police state

[The Genophage]

babachewie wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.

[ghost9191]

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.

take that for what it is

the ppl that build the crucible build it to destroy the reapers, somewhere down the line they made it to control them also, hint the prothean issue. that is why the catalyst hates those two options and tries to get you to go with synthesis

Modifié par ghost9191, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:28 .

[babachewie]

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.

....what are you talking about? nobody said that. You're just making up crap now. The protheans came up with it themselves just like the illusive man was trying to. You have no leg to stand on anymore. I dont know if you're just tnot getting it or what, but you're wrong

[The Genophage]

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.

take that for what it is

the ppl that build the crucible build it to destroy the reapers, somewhere down the line they made it to control them also, hint the prothean issue. that is why the catalyst hates those two options and tries to get you to go with synthesis

Sorry I misread that, now explain me this, why would the Catalyst help you on the first place, doesn't it seem fishy to choose any option he gives you...Like I say, there is no basis or reason why to trust the Catalyst.

[ghost9191]

@TheGenophage

agreed but with control and destroy it seems to not want you to pick them. like when you say you don't want to give up everything you have, it responds " i don't want to give up my place to you but would have to" not exact but close.

so i think the only one where it actually helps is with synthesis, because thats what it has tried and wanted . but it hates the idea of the others, i believe control and destroy are what the crucible was made for and that is why he cannot stop u from choosing either of them, and they are the only options with low ems

i do not trust the catalyst but it does show it hates control and destroy. and i just find the reward outweighs the risks i guess, i would feel if i did something and it worked i would feel better, whereas if i did nothing i would feel a lot worse something like that

[The Genophage]

ghost9191 wrote...

@TheGenophage

agreed but with control and destroy it seems to not want you to pick them. like when you say you don't want to give up everything you have, it responds " i don't want to give up my place to you but would have to" not exact but close.

so i think the only one where it actually helps is with synthesis, because thats what it has tried and wanted . but it hates the idea of the others, i believe control and destroy are what the crucible was made for and that is why he cannot stop u from choosing either of them, and they are the only options with low ems

i do not trust the catalyst but it does show it hates control and destroy. and i just find the reward outweighs the risks i guess, i would feel if i did something and it worked i would feel better, whereas if i did nothing i would feel a lot worse something like that

He seems he wants you to choose, same with destroy, if you argue with him, he gets enraged.

[savionen]

Doesn't matter, didn't have synthesis.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]ghost9191 wrote...

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]babachewie wrote...

[quote]ghost9191 wrote...

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[/quote]Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.
[/quote]



take that for what it is

the ppl that build the crucible build it to destroy the reapers, somewhere down the line they made it to control them also, hint the prothean issue. that is why the catalyst hates those two options and tries to get you to go with synthesis

[/quote]Sorry I misread that, now explain me this, why would the Catalyst help you on the first place, doesn't it seem fishy to choose any option he gives you...Like I say, there is no basis or reason why to trust the Catalyst.
[/quote]

[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

I lost track of pyramids. Those are getting ridiculous.

Okay I see now that we've ruled out the Destroy and Control from "Catalyst Design" we're back to just paranoia.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:45 .

[babachewie]

The Genophage wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

babachewie wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@babachewie

Yes it does matter because how would they know about the options unless directly told by the AI.

They wouldnt. They would have to figure it out. If The AI wasnt there control and destroy would of worked anyway. They would of just had to figure it out. Synthesis is the only choice he affects. So its up to you whether you buy into that one. Which isnt the argument. Control and Destroy work and they arent of the catalysts design. So theres nothing to fear from using them which makes refuse stupid. Synthesis is the only one you can argue might be a trap. 

You have yet still to explain, also, any choice does not seem trustworthy from an enemy, everything can be seen as a trap.

Are you paying attention? The choice isnt from an enemy. The enemy didnt build the crucible and plan its creation. The choice is form those who built it. How that also be the AI's choice?

So you mean to tell me the previous cycles built a choice to control the Reapers? Ok...sure.

the choices control and destroy were built in, that is why they can both be achieved with low ems , depending on your actions in me2. synthesis can only be achieved because the catalyst realizes shep is ready for it, whereas previous cycles weren't ready and it is something that can't be forced, again ironic because you have to force it on ppl

but in short the choices of control and destroy were what the crucible was made for. control probably happened with the prothean

Thank you! someone who paid atteention

Ok, so the catalyst gave the Protheans an option to control them, yup so much sense.

take that for what it is

the ppl that build the crucible build it to destroy the reapers, somewhere down the line they made it to control them also, hint the prothean issue. that is why the catalyst hates those two options and tries to get you to go with synthesis

Sorry I misread that, now explain me this, why would the Catalyst help you on the first place, doesn't it seem fishy to choose any option he gives you...Like I say, there is no basis or reason why to trust the Catalyst.

Again the option he gives you arent his options.The catalysts is programed to keep the synthetics from wiping out organics. It doesnt really care how thats done. Once the Crucible is docked it even admits its changed because of it and also it knows that if one organic can now reach the an area thought unreachable another will eventually too. So it needed a new plan. So it lets you choose what that is. Or now refuse if you're dumb enough to pick that after everyhting ive just proven to you. It doesnt hate or love organics. It only has a job to do. if it truely was evil and couldnt be trusted it would just wipe out organics period . Even the primatives. 

[lillitheris]

wulf3n wrote...

That's based on the assumption that any firing of the crucible would only damage synthetics, which shepard couldn't possibly know.

It’s a reasonable assumption to make, since the purpose of the thing is to destroy Reapers. Maybe the planets aren’t aligned right and it just explodes, but it’s solid enough to make a decision on.