470 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I just got back from 4th of July.

Yes, I agree that adding seeing the Geth go dead in space and seeing the horror on Joker's face as EDI's robot slumps in the chair would be appropriate for the Destroy ending as well. Let's not play favorites.

Also let's show a grizzly bear and some salmon getting some synthesis and the total confusion just to be fair.

The endings were too sanitized, but that would have gone way over the 2 GB limit. Nor would this have fit into Mac and Casey's vision of "art", although I think it would have been more intense, and there would have been an equal amount of rage but for different reasons.

[lillitheris]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

But there had to be a consequence.  If there isn't one, then Destroy would've been the superior ending choice.  The idea is to make all three equal in both outcome and consequence.

It still is. But, yes, you’re correct — they added artificial ‘balance’ because they didn’t have enough faith that people would choose the ‘better’ endings. And they are better, if you assume they’re completely non-sinister, and that the singularity threat is real.

Just as in life, many people would still choose the visceral victory over the hard to understand fuzziness of the others. Sadly, BioWare chickened out and tried to push people toward other options…just like the Catalyst does.

[Jackums]

lillitheris wrote...

The Refusal choice isn’t a choice at all. It’s the cinematic that should happen if you get Critical Mission Failure.

Actively picking Refuse is a romanticization of what in reality is a horrific existence of nothing but pain, grief, and death. Only a true monster would choose it.

If you do not wish to submit to the whims of the Catalyst, your only choice is to blow up the power diverter it has employed to prevent the Crucible from firing in its default mode in order to present you with its two options: Synthesis, or Control.

Choose right.

100% correct.

[lillitheris]

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

[Benny8484]

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

I have generally agreed with you on almost all accounts in past Lill but I have to disagree on this one.  Taking quote from another user.

Nyoka wrote...

Krogan warlord: Hand over the Asari.
Shepard: We don't have time to deal with this idiot. Charge!
Thorian: The Old Growth will listen no more.
Shepard: I don't argue with plants. Give me what I want, now.
Sovereign: You will die because we demand it.
Shepard: Machines can be broken.
Saren: Join us.
Shepard: You're a coward. You join me!
*Saren shoots himself*
Tali: Now you're working for Cerberus.
Shepard: They're working for me.
Harbinger: If I have to tear you apart, Shepard, I will.
*Shepard shoots the possesed collector to death*
TIM: The Collector base can advance humanity!
Shepard: I will stop the Reapers and I won't kill the soul of our species to do it.
TIM: We can control the Reapers!
Shepard: You're crazy.
TIM: Your time has passed.
Shepard: Go to hell.
Reaper: We are your salvation. It is inevitable.
Shepard: Tell your friend we're coming for them. *kills Reaper* Never mind. I'll tell them myself.
Kai Leng: You're slow.
Shepard: No gunship this time, you son of a ****. *Kills Kai Leng*
TIM: Shepard. You have to understand. We can control them. Join me!
Shepard: You're indoctrinated. But it's not too late. You join me!
*TIM kills himself*
Space kid: blahblahblah Shepard.
Shepard: I...don't know.
Space kid: Shoot that pipe, grab those bars or jump into that beam.
Shepard: Okay.

As you can see the other options don't really make much sense when you consider the other installments.  Shepard has always done things his/her way.  She has no reason to believe the catalyst is telling the truth.  Synthesis disregards main themes all throughout ME2 "Does this unit have a soul?" EDI - "Now I know what it feels like to be alive".  Control makes shepard out to be a hypocrit by accepting the Illusive Man's solution which he opposed for the past 2 games.  Destroy is acceptable but at the cost of genocide.  Apparently losing Legion/Thane/Mordin/Anderson, like 95% of all species life & infastructre wasn't enough...

By taking the rejection route, Shepard still acts like shepard.  Given the knowledge he/she has at the time & not meta-gaming for the coolest cinematic its the right choice.

Modifié par Benny8484, 05 juillet 2012 - 01:04 .

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

Nope.

Synthesis is far more repulsive and evil than Refuse will ever be.

[Galbrant]

How was I suppose to know that rejection would lead to an over glorify game over screen? When I pick refusal, I rejected putting the fate of the galaxy in the catalyst hands, especially when he tells me I'm going die choosing one of his three choices. I either expected Shepard find another solution with the Crucible  or without it. Not my fault Bioware shamelessly cause the rock falls on the galaxy, because I chose to attempt another course of action.

Modifié par Galbrant, 05 juillet 2012 - 01:09 .

[TheImmortalBeaver]

Actually, I thought refuse was pretty epic. The knowledge that your current sacrifices would allow another cycle to was cool! I'm not saying that it's really a happy ending for Shepard and the current galaxies, but like many of the other endings, it has both negatives and positives. Those are my two cents, in any case.

...I'd say, "Feel free to disagree!" but this is the BSN. Of course people will disagree.

Quick EDIT: Fixed a typo. Don't mind me.

Modifié par Misterpinky0, 05 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[lillitheris]

Benny8484 wrote...

By taking the rejection route, Shepard still acts like shepard.  Given the knowledge he/she has at the time & not meta-gaming for the coolest cinematic its the right choice.

That’s a romantic, but incorrect, thought.

You’re going to lose. This is a given. There is no way around it. Everybody will die if you do not act. You can hope that future cycles will fare better, of course, but you don’t really know. All you do know is that everybody in this cycle will die. Refusing means that you killed everybody when you didn’t need to.

You may choose to trust the Catalyst, which allows you to consider all three options. Or, realistically, Control vs. Destroy because nobody sane will choose Synthesis.

If you do not trust it, just blow away the diverter and unleash the weapon. It’ll Destroy the Reapers.

[Moirai]

Galbrant wrote...

How was I suppose to know that rejection would lead to an over glorify game over screen? When I pick refusal, I rejected putting the fate of the galaxy in the catalyst hands, especially when he tells me I'm going die choosing one of his three choices. I either expected Shepard find another solution with the Crucible  or without it. Not my fault Bioware shamelessly cause the rock falls on the galaxy, because I chose to attempt another course of action.

Unfortunately, Refuse was never going to be anything special, given that it was only plugged in to keep those of us who wanted an alternative to StarBrat's choices happy. As it was, it came over more as a 'Fine. Whatever. Here you go. Happy now?' addition, than anything worthwhile.

[lillitheris]

Rubios wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Also let's show a grizzly bear and some salmon getting some synthesis and the total confusion just to be fair.

I found the husk scene in synthesis pretty disturbing to be honest...

That was brilliant. I can’t stand the idea of Synthesis (in-character, or narratively), but whoever wrote that bit was a genius.

Still, I think a synthesized lobster would have been cool to have.

[PinkysPain]

I'm still wondering ... why is the destroy ending available at all?

My guess, the Starchild is afraid of the Geth, he sees in their cooperation with organics a potential for interrupting the current cycle and furthermore that cooperation undermines his whole raison d'etre ... in multiple ways they represent an invalidation of his entire millenia long existence. He can not truly acknowledge that to himself, so when offered with a weapon which is able to extinguish his fear he rationalizes offering it to Shepard ... giving some useless alternatives to make lieing to himself a little easier.

[Eire Icon]

I agree OP

Destroy is rejecting the Catalysts logic that it is inevitable for their to be conflict between Organics and Syntethics. By destroying the Reapers you are basically destroying the most obvious safegurard to preventing this in the future. Its basically saying a solution is not needed

Control keeps the Reapers around and allows Shepard to order their return should the Catalysts logic be proven correct

Synthesis removes the differences that create the potential for conflict between organics and syntethics, ensuring the Catalysts logic is no longer applicable

Refusal is the choice of a petulant Shepard, a Shepard who disobeys a direct order and dooms entire races to extinction at the whim of his own ego and paranoia. This Shepard is a failure, a failure to himself, a failure to his squad, a failure to his race and a failure to the entire galaxy.

Modifié par Eire Icon, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .

[Moirai]

PinkysPain wrote...

I'm still wondering ... why is the destroy ending available at all?

My guess, the Starchild is afraid of the Geth, he sees in their cooperation with organics a potential for interrupting the current cycle and furthermore that cooperation undermines his whole raison d'etre ... in multiple ways they represent an invalidation of his entire millenia long existence. He can not truly acknowledge that to himself, so when offered with a weapon which is able to extinguish his fear he rationalizes offering it to Shepard ... giving some useless alternatives to make lieing to himself a little easier.

Other than they were just copying Deus Ex, I haven't the foggiest. Story-wise, it is a bizarre option for It to offer. Well, the whole scenario is totally bizarre really...

[PeterG1]

To me? Refusal is abhorrent in the entertainment-sense. It's a bit of an insult to gamers when you think of the power of interactive fiction (and, after all, that's why we're all here to begin with).

Why fight so hard to simply let the next cycle implement what you could have been able to choose and implement yourself? Shepard could have chosen, why let the next cycle choose for you? It doesn't make a lot of sense. I guess I can thank BioWare for giving gamers the choice, but I'd never choose it.

[Galbrant]

Eire Icon wrote...

Refusal is the choice of a petulant Shepard, a Shepard who disobeys a direct order and dooms entire races to extinction at the whim of his own ego and paranoia. This Shepard is a failure, a failure to himself, a failure to his squad, a failure to his race and a failure to the entire galaxy.

Shepard is a Spectre, If he/she wants to he/she can disobey any orders from Admiral Hackett,  Even Paragon Shepard is okay with it,   
.

And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

[lillitheris]

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

*yawns*

Oh lookie someone else saying for themselves why everyone else choose an ending choice. How very original.

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

*yawns*

Oh lookie someone else saying for themselves why everyone else choose an ending choice. How very original.

Hey, it is the worst of the worst…rather than your ‘original’ moaning, why don’t you defend it?

[Eire Icon]

Galbrant wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

Refusal is the choice of a petulant Shepard, a Shepard who disobeys a direct order and dooms entire races to extinction at the whim of his own ego and paranoia. This Shepard is a failure, a failure to himself, a failure to his squad, a failure to his race and a failure to the entire galaxy.

Shepard is a Spectre, If he/she wants to he/she can disobey any orders from Admiral Hackett,  Even Paragon Shepard is okay with it,   
.

And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

Congratulations you've completely missed the point

[KingZayd]

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

I don't. Would pick Refuse before I picked synthesis.

[lillitheris]

KingZayd wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

I don't. Would pick Refuse before I picked synthesis.

Tricky point. Despite the obvious problems with it…I think I might go with Synthesis if it was a choice between that and death. Maybe. That would warrant serious consideration.

Fortunately that’s not the choice, there are two more viable options…

[vixvicco]

 Any choice is better than doing nothing.

Modifié par vixvicco, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:42 .

[Galbrant]

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

... I'm think I'm done here. 

Modifié par Galbrant, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:50 .