470 réponses à ce sujet

[Silpheed58]

I agree with the title.

[lillitheris]

Galbrant wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

... I'm think I'm done here.

Yes, yes you are

[Eire Icon]

Refuse - I won't let fear compromise who I am. I will let it wipe out entire races however

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

*yawns*

Oh lookie someone else saying for themselves why everyone else choose an ending choice. How very original.

Hey, it is the worst of the worst…rather than your ‘original’ moaning, why don’t you defend it?

Simply because you self-righteous (hilarious that you're the EXACT thing you accuse refusers of being) don't seem to get it through your skulls when I do point out my reasons. What use is there debating with a self righteous assured they're right wall?

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Galbrant wrote...


And calling Refusal Shepards petulant, is inane.  There are more than enough reasons to consider refusal.

There are no reasons to consider Refusal. NONE.

I do agree that it’s unfair to call such a Shepard ‘petulant’. A horrifying monster would be more apt.

*yawns*

Oh lookie someone else saying for themselves why everyone else choose an ending choice. How very original.

Hey, it is the worst of the worst…rather than your ‘original’ moaning, why don’t you defend it?

Simply because you self-righteous (hilarious that you're the EXACT thing you accuse refusers of being) don't seem to get it through your skulls when I do point out my reasons. What use is there debating with a self righteous assured they're right wall?

Try! All I recalled from you thus far is

Oh lawd we're doing the "if you pick refuse you're somehow
responsible for the Reapers killing everyone but if you pick Destroy you
totally aren't responsible for the Geth dying. Doesn't matter that
Destroy isn't the only way to defeat the Reapers. Or that you could've
picked a way to stop them that resulted in no deaths. Nope. I DID
NOTHING WRONG ONLY THOSE STUPID REFUSERS DID!"

Which is silly. You’re of course responsible for the geth dying in Destroy. You’re responsible for everyone (including the geth) dying in Refuse.

[Ryzaki]

Which would be great if I was singling you out with that destroy post. I wasn't. There are plenty of destroyers who take that attitude. If you're not one of them? Great wasn't talking about you.

And this is by far not the only thread going "lulz Refuse is worst choice!" hell this isn't even the only one I've seen you in.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:53 .

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

Which would be great if I was singling you out with that destroy post. I wasn't. There are plenty of destroyers who take that attitude. If you're not one of them? Great wasn't talking about you.

OK. There were, perhaps, 2 people of that mind.

And this is by far not the only thread going "lulz Refuse is worst choice!" hell this isn't even the only one I've seen you in.

But it is the worst choice. Even owning the destruction of the geth, Destroy is the better option. Or do you disagree? If so, why?

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Which would be great if I was singling you out with that destroy post. I wasn't. There are plenty of destroyers who take that attitude. If you're not one of them? Great wasn't talking about you.

OK. There were, perhaps, 2 people of that mind.

I saw at least 3 but by all means.

But it is the worst choice. Even owning the destruction of the geth, Destroy is the better option. Or do you disagree? If so, why?

nope that's Synthesis. By far. Simply because Synthesis is surrendering to the enemy and acknowledging that they're right. And then changing all life in the galaxy to suit their whims. In Refuse at least the only lives changed are those in Shep's cycle. Yes they'll die and be reaped but new life will flourish . In Synthesis? Nope. That life has been changed whether they wanted it or not. Synthesis beats it on sheer scale.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:00 .

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

nope that's Synthesis. By far. Simply because Synthesis is surrendering to the enemy and acknowledging that they're right. And then changing all life in the galaxy to suit their whims. In Refuse at least the only lives changed are those in Shep's cycle.

This isn’t (necessarily) true. The cycles could go on for who knows how long. As I said above, it’d be a tough choice if the only alternative was Synthesis.

But, still, Destroy is actual rejection.

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

This isn’t (necessarily) true. The cycles could go on for who knows how long. As I said above, it’d be a tough choice if the only alternative was Synthesis.

But, still, Destroy is actual rejection.

But they don't. It ends in the next cycle. And if you want to argue non-metagame logic Shep can know fully well about Liara's capsules.

And wouldn't be a tough choice for me. In my mind they die either way. Would I rather them be tranquil or dead? I'd pick dead every time.

So what? So is Control. You reject him in some way in EVERY SINGLE ENDING save Synthesis.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:06 .

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

This isn’t (necessarily) true. The cycles could go on for who knows how long. As I said above, it’d be a tough choice if the only alternative was Synthesis.

But, still, Destroy is actual rejection.

But they don't. It ends in the next cycle.

You don’t know that. (You actually don’t even know that for certain if you metagame.)

And if you want to argue non-metagame logic Shep can know fully well about Liara's capsules.

Many if not most cycles probably left capsules behind. It doesn’t really need a rocket scientist to try for that particular plan D.

So what? So is Control. You reject him in some way in EVERY SINGLE ENDING save Synthesis.

Control is (more or less) becoming the Catalyst. Your intentions may be different, but to say it’s a rejection is…odd.

[Xilizhra]

Why is everyone's ego so fragile that they're considering what the Catalyst wants and rejecting that specifically, rather than weighing each choice on its own merits?

[IscrewTali]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191

So let me get this straight. Its bad to refuse your enemy, fight them off, and die without committing atrocities.
But its good to trust your enemy, commit and atrocity, and live under the catalyst genocidal brain.

ok this is why i said read my post carefully.     i never said it was good, i sad it was bad also. but refusal is bad too is all i am saying, all options are terrible.      unless they make it that you can achieve victory in refusal. but going in you should know that there is no way to win without using the crucible. By going with refuse you do cause deaths

you let the cycle happen, that is evil in it's own way , more so then genocide because in destroy their death is not pointless. the geth are destroyed to save the many, along with shep

I didn't deliberately or systematically kill anyone, so how is it genocide?

because, by not stopping the Reapers you are just as responsible for everyone they kill as they are.

seriously, its not just a Canadian law, most Commonwealth countries share it, but i will state it again

If you have the chance to prevent a crime and do not, you are just as responsible as the individual who commited the crime

Unless you meta-game, you can't possibly know the catalyst is telling the truth. If it a drunken man comes up to me and tells me to click this button or the world will die, and I don't, does that mean I'm responsible for the genocide, no. Also, Refusal is not doing nothing, you continue to fight but loss.

You dont believe it when others tell you its impossible to win conventionally, and the only chance is the Crucible. Well i dont believe it when Starbrat tells me the Geth get killed in Destroy. If the Catalyst cannot be trusted and all he says are lies and deceit, then why would you believe the Geth part?

[Ryzaki]

lillitheris wrote...

You don’t know that. (You actually don’t even know that for certain if you metagame.)

Shep doesn't know ANYTHING for certain if you really want to use that logic. Each ending has Shep taking a leap of faith.

Many if not most cycles probably left capsules behind. It doesn’t really need a rocket scientist to try for that particular plan D.

Exactly. And the only reason it really didn't work for this cycle was that the warnings were difficult to understand (so much so that only Shep understood them). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to try to figure that with warnings that didn't rely on telepathy another cycle could find out and prepare earlier. (And actually there's nothing saying the other cycles left anything behind other than their blueprints of the Crucible. Liara flat out says only the Protheans really left any info at all about the Reapers).

Control is (more or less) becoming the Catalyst. Your intentions may be different, but to say it’s a rejection is…odd.

How is it not? Shepard has Synthetics and Organics living in harmony without using the Reapers to Reap or forcing everyone into a hybrid like existence. It's peaceful coexistance. Intentions are what makes it a rejection. Using the same tools as your enemy doesn't mean you follow the same beliefs.

[KingZayd]

lillitheris wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

I don't. Would pick Refuse before I picked synthesis.

Tricky point. Despite the obvious problems with it…I think I might go with Synthesis if it was a choice between that and death. Maybe. That would warrant serious consideration.

Fortunately that’s not the choice, there are two more viable options…

You did say Refuse was the worst option of all. I don't think that's true. Synthesis is.

[Gravbh]

I'm still not clear on how blowing up the reapers (and by extension starkid) can be interpreted as accepting his terms. He even says that the peace won't last, implying destroy is not what he wants you to choose.

Destroy is simply the refuse option for people who are willing to make a tough choice.

[lillitheris]

Ryzaki wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

You don’t know that. (You actually don’t even know that for certain if you metagame.)

Shep doesn't know ANYTHING for certain if you really want to use that logic. Each ending has Shep taking a leap of faith.

…Yeah, that’s why you typically plan for the worst.

Many if not most cycles probably left capsules behind. It doesn’t really need a rocket scientist to try for that particular plan D.

Exactly. And the only reason it really didn't work for this cycle was that the warnings were difficult to understand (so much so that only Shep understood them). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to try to figure that with warnings that didn't rely on telepathy another cycle could find out and prepare earlier.

…Except, you know, if they did use telepathy, couldn’t see our visible wavelengths, …

Presumably not all previous cycles were telepathic, either, so there’s no reason it shouldn’t have succeeded before according to your logic.

(And actually there's nothing saying the other cycles left anything behind other than their blue[prints of the Crucible. Liara flat out says only the Protheans really left any info at all about the Reapers).

…That she knows of. Records don’t really stay particularly well for millions of years.

[lillitheris]

KingZayd wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

^ Totally onto something.

I’m glad everyone now agrees that Refuse is the worst option of all.

I don't. Would pick Refuse before I picked synthesis.

Tricky point. Despite the obvious problems with it…I think I might go with Synthesis if it was a choice between that and death. Maybe. That would warrant serious consideration.

Fortunately that’s not the choice, there are two more viable options…

You did say Refuse was the worst option of all. I don't think that's true. Synthesis is.

I think it is. It’s a tough choice.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

IscrewTali wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191

So let me get this straight. Its bad to refuse your enemy, fight them off, and die without committing atrocities.
But its good to trust your enemy, commit and atrocity, and live under the catalyst genocidal brain.

ok this is why i said read my post carefully.     i never said it was good, i sad it was bad also. but refusal is bad too is all i am saying, all options are terrible.      unless they make it that you can achieve victory in refusal. but going in you should know that there is no way to win without using the crucible. By going with refuse you do cause deaths

you let the cycle happen, that is evil in it's own way , more so then genocide because in destroy their death is not pointless. the geth are destroyed to save the many, along with shep

I didn't deliberately or systematically kill anyone, so how is it genocide?

because, by not stopping the Reapers you are just as responsible for everyone they kill as they are.

seriously, its not just a Canadian law, most Commonwealth countries share it, but i will state it again

If you have the chance to prevent a crime and do not, you are just as responsible as the individual who commited the crime

Unless you meta-game, you can't possibly know the catalyst is telling the truth. If it a drunken man comes up to me and tells me to click this button or the world will die, and I don't, does that mean I'm responsible for the genocide, no. Also, Refusal is not doing nothing, you continue to fight but loss.

You dont believe it when others tell you its impossible to win conventionally, and the only chance is the Crucible. Well i dont believe it when Starbrat tells me the Geth get killed in Destroy. If the Catalyst cannot be trusted and all he says are lies and deceit, then why would you believe the Geth part?

He doesn't believe the Geth part, he chooses refusal because he doesn't believe him period, not because it will kill the Geth.

[The Genophage]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191

So let me get this straight. Its bad to refuse your enemy, fight them off, and die without committing atrocities.
But its good to trust your enemy, commit and atrocity, and live under the catalyst genocidal brain.

ok this is why i said read my post carefully.     i never said it was good, i sad it was bad also. but refusal is bad too is all i am saying, all options are terrible.      unless they make it that you can achieve victory in refusal. but going in you should know that there is no way to win without using the crucible. By going with refuse you do cause deaths

you let the cycle happen, that is evil in it's own way , more so then genocide because in destroy their death is not pointless. the geth are destroyed to save the many, along with shep

I didn't deliberately or systematically kill anyone, so how is it genocide?

because, by not stopping the Reapers you are just as responsible for everyone they kill as they are.

seriously, its not just a Canadian law, most Commonwealth countries share it, but i will state it again

If you have the chance to prevent a crime and do not, you are just as responsible as the individual who commited the crime

Unless you meta-game, you can't possibly know the catalyst is telling the truth. If it a drunken man comes up to me and tells me to click this button or the world will die, and I don't, does that mean I'm responsible for the genocide, no. Also, Refusal is not doing nothing, you continue to fight but loss.

You dont believe it when others tell you its impossible to win conventionally, and the only chance is the Crucible. Well i dont believe it when Starbrat tells me the Geth get killed in Destroy. If the Catalyst cannot be trusted and all he says are lies and deceit, then why would you believe the Geth part?

He doesn't believe the Geth part, he chooses refusal because he doesn't believe him period, not because it will kill the Geth.

thank u.

[Xilizhra]

The reason Refusal doesn't work is this: the Reapers are attacking the Crucible right now. You have to do something fast, or else the whole reason this war was fought to begin with will go up in smoke, and with that, the rest of the galaxy. The Catalyst's options may be bizarre, but you have to do something and hope.